Do I need Permadom?

[Rinwen]

Hiya, folks.

 

I have a Mind/Psi Dom which I love, both thematically, and powers.

 

I'm not a min/max player.

 

I have my game settings so that in missions I never encounter a Boss.  Might be a "Boss" as far as name/powers go, but is set to a LT level.

 

I'm not a power gamer, I don't care about setting records, build/theory crafting, etc... I just want to turn bad guys into smears on the pavement without stress, or honestly, too much challenge. 

 

I like to pick powers that go with my theme, or I simply like the looks of.

 

This is strictly a "for me," solo character... I wouldn't inflict my less than optimal choices on a group.  To me it's not fair to ask a group to carry my admittedly selfish power choices, and not carry my own weight.

 

With all that in mind... do I NEED Permadom to be successful as a solo Mind/Psi Dom, just interested in story/radio missions, and street sweeping? 

 

I don't want Hasten, (I know about all the benefits, it just doesn't fit this particular character, I have it on some others), I don't want what, to me,  are undesirable powers, just to put the Luck of the Gambler recharge sets into, etc.

 

But if I can't handle solo, "no Boss" settings, (real Boss), story/radio missions, or just street sweeping, then I may bail on this guy rather than be forced into power/slotting choices, not to mention costs, for something that I wouldn't enjoy as much.

 

Thoughts?  Can I get by without Permadom for my play style, and enjoy my character and his performance how I'd like... or the game is just se up in a way where that's not possible, and bail now?

 

Thank you for your time and advice. 

[oedipus_tex]

It's fine never to go perma-dom. Most people don't hit perma-dom until sometime after level 50 unless they are being financed by another character. Permadom is not particularly cheap. Usually runs 70-100million influence for a basic "trust fund" build. Most of my doms are not made perma until I've decided to sink cash into them.

 

That said, going perma-dom makes significant changes in a Dominator's performance. Some people have alikened it to playing two completely different characters. I also think that hitting perma-dom doesn't make Dominators all that much stronger than other similarly outfitted characters. Prior to permadom the average Dominator is likely to struggle in the role more than most other classes are likely to struggle in theirs. It's hard to build a Scrapper, Blaster or Defender who falls far behind expected performance. Most Dominators just don't have very good controls until the recharge on them is brought significantly down.

 

As a Mind/Psi specifically you also have the opportunity for near-perma Drain Psyche and the transformation that brings.

 

Even if you don't go full perma dom I'd invite you to read my guide on Trust Fund Dominators. You don't have to complete all the steps to go full perma. But anything you can do to bring up your global Recharge is going to make a huge difference. +30% Recharge by itself will open many doors. You only need to hit about 72% Recharge for perma dom if you are okay with hero base powers. And no matter what you decide, as a Dominator you should be using those base boosts regularly.  

 

[Rinwen]

10 minutes ago, oedipus_tex said:

It's fine never to go perma-dom. Most people don't hit perma-dom until sometime after level 50 unless they are being financed by another character. Permadom is not particularly cheap. Usually runs 70-100million influence for a basic "trust fund" build. Most of my doms are not made perma until I've decided to sink cash into them.

 

That said, going perma-dom makes significant changes in a Dominator's performance. Some people have alikened it to playing two completely different characters. I also think that hitting perma-dom doesn't make Dominators all that much stronger than other similarly outfitted characters. Prior to permadom the average Dominator is likely to struggle in the role more than most other classes are likely to struggle in theirs. It's hard to build a Scrapper, Blaster or Defender who falls far behind expected performance. Most Dominators just don't have very good controls until the recharge on them is brought significantly down.

 

As a Mind/Psi specifically you also have the opportunity for near-perma Drain Psyche and the transformation that brings.

 

Even if you don't go full perma dom I'd invite you to read my guide on Trust Fund Dominators. You don't have to complete all the steps to go full perma. But anything you can do to bring up your global Recharge is going to make a huge difference. +30% Recharge by itself will open many doors. You only need to hit about 72% Recharge for perma dom if you are okay with hero base powers. And no matter what you decide, as a Dominator you should be using those base boosts regularly.  

 

Thank you... I did read it, which is where I learned about using Hasten and LotG set.  

 

Glad to know that I can pick and choose as I wish, with the door always open to go Permadom at 50 should I change my mind.

 

Many thanks, for both this and your trus fund guide.

[oedipus_tex]

I do think you should reconsider skipping Hasten. Dominator powers are unfortunately balanced around the assumption players take that power. On Mind/Psi especially you're taking a big hit to skip it. I'd recommend taking it, shift-clicking to make it auto reactivate, and forget about it. If the graphics bother you you can suppress them at the tailor. While you don't have to do this, you're fighting with an arm tied behind your back, sort of like a Mastermind skipping her tier 3 pet.

 

 

Here is a simple layup you can follow to see some ways to eke out some performance casually. You don't have to do this all at once. It can be your slow burn approach to improving a character you enjoy.

 

Tier 1:

• Purchase 2 sets of Malaise's Confusion for Confuse and Mass Confusion (avoid the damage proc unless you dont mind it alerting enemies)
• Purchase 1 set of Call of the Sandman for Mass Hypnosis (proc here is fine)
• Purchase 1 set of Sting of the Manticore for Psionic Lance
• Purchase 2 set of Positron's Blast for Psychic Scream and Terrify
• Purchase 1 set of Obliteration for Psychic Shockwave

This alone will get you to +43 Recharge.

 

 

Tier 2:

• Purchase Luck of the Gambler and put in Hover, Manuevers, Combat Jumping, or any other +Defense powers
• Purchase 2 sets of Basilisk's Gaze for Domination and Total Domination

 

If you purchase just 2 LoTGs, you will be at +73 recharge. With the +20 from the base buff, you'll be a permadom. You can adjust for the number of LoTGs you want to take. 

 

FYI the build below would also allow for taking Combat Teleport, Teleport Other, and Fold Space. You may or may not want to go that direction, but a Mass Hypnosis >> Fold Space >>Drain Psyche salvo is pretty uber.

 

Edited December 25, 2020 by oedipus_tex

[Doomguide2005]

This game is very forgiving of 'sub-optimal' builds.  If speed, build vs concept, minmax performance, were required to succeed we wouldn't have man builds, pool boy, petless Master Minds, pure Healers ad infinitum in this game.  One of its glorious strengths is its utter flexibility to choice and style. Go for it and have fun.

[Gwyrddu]

As a more casual player who is mostly solo leveling up most of the archetypes, I'd say in my experience, dominator is not the most difficult AT to level. No, I'd say for me that would actually be a corruptor, although primary/secondary choices undoubtedly have some impact here. The lack of defenses or mez protection while not dominating is harsh, and I feel it more because on my fire/sav dom I can't really hover and hotfeet turns off when I get mezzed. But in the end hard control is still excellent protection, and I am getting better at timing my domination for when I am getting to a big fight or will get mezzed. I am getting up to level 25 though and that's when I start soloing bosses on my characters using my extra line of inspiration, so I'll have to get back to you about how I do with the extra level of difficulty. Combat jumping is my only defense power so I'm probably going to stuff a bunch of IO protection in there (already have a stealth io in there which is a big quality of life improvement).

Edited December 26, 2020 by Gwyrddu

[Greycat]

5 hours ago, Rinwen said:

This is strictly a "for me," solo character... I wouldn't inflict my less than optimal choices on a group.  To me it's not fair to ask a group to carry my admittedly selfish power choices, and not carry my own weight.

 

With all that in mind... do I NEED Permadom to be successful as a solo Mind/Psi Dom, just interested in story/radio missions, and street sweeping?

Absolutely not. I've been playing them since COV came out. It's not needed in the slightest.

[oedipus_tex]

This is a roleplaying game, so to an extent you can decide whether to roleplay a character who is stronger or weaker than other characters. Perhaps a character with a lesser handling on their abilities or whatnot.

 

There's also a strategy layer to the game. From a strategic standpoint, Dominators are an archetype that relies on a "Domination" ability that has a long Recharge but that they can't actually slot. Hasten provides global Recharge that brings Domination back up more quickly. There are some specialty builds that skip it. I've rarely seen a Dominator build that wouldn't be significantly improved by taking it even if they don't slot a single IO.

 

 

Edited December 26, 2020 by oedipus_tex

[Greycat]

33 minutes ago, oedipus_tex said:

This is a roleplaying game, so to an extent you can decide whether to roleplay a character who is stronger or weaker than other characters. Perhaps a character with a lesser handling on their abilities or whatnot.

I'll thank you not to assume, or judge my  (or anyone else's) characters and their abilities, or try to blow off the fact I don't want or need permadom with putting it down as "roleplaying." The first is a bad idea, the second is not your place, and the third, the way your statement comes across, is just smacking of elitism. Honestly, that entire post comes off as talking down.

 

I've played more than my share of doms on live and here. I'd say I have a good handle on the AT. (Yes, that does include knowing what "Domination" is. You don't need to define it. That's part of that "talking down" I mentioned.)  I've never felt the need or desire to perma domination (or anything else, for that matter.) If I *had* felt it was required, I'd have been pushing the devs to fix whatever was so broken with them to require it.

 

If you *prefer* running that way, if you *like* it, great. Knock yourself out. Have fun. Do your thing. But that doesn't mean it's necessary as a general rule.

[oedipus_tex]

12 hours ago, Greycat said:

I've never felt the need or desire to perma domination (or anything else, for that matter.) If I *had* felt it was required, I'd have been pushing the devs to fix whatever was so broken with them to require it.

 

 

That's fantastic, because I was talking about Hasten and not permadom. Permadom is an avenue that costs influence. Some of my characters aren't permadoms because of the cost of materials or because I'm not that invested in them. That doesn't mean they wouldn't be stronger if I did go for it with them. Influence and merits accumulate and at some point you either let them sit or do something with them.

 

Skipping Hasten on the other hand is in 90% of cases a way to handicap your Dominator. There are specialty builds and there are boutique builds and there are people who just hate the sound effect. That's fine. The way Domination is set up combined with the desirability of damage procs makes Hasten as close to a must have power as anything. If you choose to skip it anyway, that's an option. 

Edited December 26, 2020 by oedipus_tex

[Coyote]

23 hours ago, Rinwen said:

Thoughts?  Can I get by without Permadom for my play style, and enjoy my character and his performance how I'd like... or the game is just se up in a way where that's not possible, and bail now?

 

With Domination available MOST of the time, and Hasten available MOST of the time in a medium (but not high) Recharge build, you can have one or the other up at all times. That means that in one mode you have mez protection and one-shot mez Bosses, in the other your powers recharge faster so you can stack Holds on Bosses faster. Either situation gives you the tools to fight, especially at lower difficulty levels.

 

While I always suggest that perma-Dom is BETTER, there are some advantages to a lower Recharge build. The main one is that you can build for Defense, instead. And that's a lot cheaper, also. So a character with 35% Defense who is NOT perma-Dom may be stronger defensively than one with 20% Defense but a perma-Dom. It's hard to manage both high Defense and high Recharge in the same build... it's possible, but it's hard and it forces some build choices. I have two perma-Doms with capped Ranged/AoE defenses, and I was forced into running Link Minds and Barrier Destiny in order to finish the caps. Sometimes, the build constraints don't allow perma-Dom AND soft-capped Defenses, and some players will prefer a Defense-based build.

 

I would generally always suggest building for perma-Dom if you're not trying for something else. But it usually forces you into 4 power pools that have Defense powers for the LotG IOs, so no Teleport for Fold Space. No Sorcery for Rune of Protection. Etc. You may prefer to go with a 50% Domination / 50% Rune of Protection build (though I think a build that has RoP up that often may hit perma-Dom anyhow). Basically, if you have another build that you want to try that pushes you away from some of the usual choices made for perma-Dom... that's fine. But don't skip perma-Dom just to avoid "the hassle". It's worth the hassle.

[oedipus_tex]

I think certain secondaries lean toward a Recharge build as well. Psi is one of these. Anything you can do to get the Recharge on Drain Psyche down will significantly increase your capability. 

 

Around the point you get to perma dom on Mind/Psi you have recharges in this neighborhood:

• Mass Confusion: 62 seconds
• Total Domination: 62 seconds
• Mass Hypnosis: 13 seconds
• Drain Psyche: 33 seconds

 

Since Mass Confuse and TD start with unreasonably large recharge times, this Recharge helps you significantly close the gap. Meanwhile Drain Psyche provides boatloads of regen and recovery, plus it robs enemy archvillains of their Regen. Achieving this closes many holes for the /Psi character.

 

You don't have to do this. You may just never get there with the character. I have only about 5 perma dom characters total, the ones I put that investment in. Only one has a complete permadom, S/L/Ran defense build.

 

On the other hand, by the time you get to Vet Level 5 or so you should have at least 20-40 million influence, more if you got lucky with purple drops or ran a bunch of task forces. The money isn't worth anything if you don't spend it. Running one ITF will net you around 3-6 million influence after you sell off the white recipes and auction off any orange drops before you even consider the merits earned. The game is more about the journey than the final build, that is true. But if you really like a character it's helpful to know what that dream destination might look like.

Edited December 26, 2020 by oedipus_tex

[...]

FWIW, perma dom with high ranged defense is easiest on those primaries with a confuse. Purple confuse set + the ATO set for 20 recharge and 10% ranged defense goes a long way. 

 

Not cheap of course. 

[ExeErdna]

The main reason for permadom to me is being immune to being mezzed. To have your dom drop in the middle of a group is one of the worse things. Especially if you're fighting Malta, Carnies, Longbow or Arachnos.

[SwitchFade]

On 12/25/2020 at 1:44 PM, Rinwen said:

Hiya, folks.

 

I have a Mind/Psi Dom which I love, both thematically, and powers.

 

I'm not a min/max player.

 

I have my game settings so that in missions I never encounter a Boss.  Might be a "Boss" as far as name/powers go, but is set to a LT level.

 

I'm not a power gamer, I don't care about setting records, build/theory crafting, etc... I just want to turn bad guys into smears on the pavement without stress, or honestly, too much challenge. 

 

I like to pick powers that go with my theme, or I simply like the looks of.

 

This is strictly a "for me," solo character... I wouldn't inflict my less than optimal choices on a group.  To me it's not fair to ask a group to carry my admittedly selfish power choices, and not carry my own weight.

 

With all that in mind... do I NEED Permadom to be successful as a solo Mind/Psi Dom, just interested in story/radio missions, and street sweeping? 

 

I don't want Hasten, (I know about all the benefits, it just doesn't fit this particular character, I have it on some others), I don't want what, to me,  are undesirable powers, just to put the Luck of the Gambler recharge sets into, etc.

 

But if I can't handle solo, "no Boss" settings, (real Boss), story/radio missions, or just street sweeping, then I may bail on this guy rather than be forced into power/slotting choices, not to mention costs, for something that I wouldn't enjoy as much.

 

Thoughts?  Can I get by without Permadom for my play style, and enjoy my character and his performance how I'd like... or the game is just se up in a way where that's not possible, and bail now?

 

Thank you for your time and advice. 

Nope.

 

That was easy, right?

[Armaaz]

You don't need it but it is nice to have. I found it much easier to achieve than I thought it would be. I thought it would take a super expensive build at endgame before permadom was a reality but it came together sooner than that. Using binds to keep both hasten and domination on auto definitely helps a lot.
That said, play how you like. If it works for you, that's all that matters.

[oedipus_tex]

I think a lot of weight comes down to what mean by "need."

 

I wouldn't say anyone "needs" anything. If we changed the question to "Do Dominators need IOs more than other archetypes do?" I'd say generally yes. You can play most Blasters, Defenders, or melee characters more leisurely, and if you're used to that, Dominators are going to be quite an unpleasant surprise. If you spend casually on a Blaster to bring its Recharge or Defense up you get better bit by bit. You're not building to hit some magic number where playstyle shifts dramatically and then managing your pee breaks around making sure you're there to click every 80 seconds.

 

With Dominators there is this real intensity to getting your Recharge to a manageable level. This is due to mezz protection, a blue bar refill, and the ability to mezz bosses all being rolled into one timer, along with most Dominators relying on long recharge powers to stay in the fight. Scrappers or Stalkers do not need to have a 90 or 120 second power recharged to open a fight safely, they just do it. With Dominators your "armor" is limited by your recharge.

 

The thing about perma-Domination is that whether you get there or not, a lot about Dominators is built around making sure they're not overpowered for the players who get there. You can build a Defender with a Hold in the primary, secondary, and tertiary set. On Dominators you can get a Hold in your primary, the melee-based Hold in the Earth set and no other, and no Hold in your APP. They did this out of fear of what a Dominator stacking Mag 6 Holds could do. But it also means if you are out of Domination mode you are a character with a Mag 3 Hold worse than a Controller andwith much worse support powers; we've established your Recharge is low so stacking it will be dicey. It is what it is.

[tidge]

On 12/29/2020 at 1:53 AM, ExeErdna said:

The main reason for permadom to me is being immune to being mezzed. To have your dom drop in the middle of a group is one of the worse things. Especially if you're fighting Malta, Carnies, Longbow or Arachnos.

I'll add that I find it almost as important that Domination will refill the Endurance bar. My (perma) Dominator runs much hotter with less concern for Endurance management that my other ATs.

[carroto]

I would say that Mind/ "needs" perma-dom less than any other primary, since you have so many options for tackling small groups of enemies.  With a single-target non-notifying confuse you can solo almost anything.  I never was able to stick with Mind/ because of other reasons, but it is by far the safest solo primary I've tried.

 

I wouldn't even necessarily feel the need to turn bosses off.  My usual way of dealing with them was Levitate -> Dominate -> Mesmerize -> Dominate.  The boss was either knocked down or sleeping until I had the second hold stacked.  Barring an unlucky miss they'd never have a chance to take any action.  No Domination needed.

[QuiJon]

On 12/25/2020 at 1:44 PM, Rinwen said:

With all that in mind... do I NEED Permadom to be successful as a solo Mind/Psi Dom, just interested in story/radio missions, and street sweeping? 

 

I don't want Hasten, (I know about all the benefits, it just doesn't fit this particular character, I have it on some others), I don't want what, to me,  are undesirable powers, just to put the Luck of the Gambler recharge sets into, etc.

 

But if I can't handle solo, "no Boss" settings, (real Boss), story/radio missions, or just street sweeping, then I may bail on this guy rather than be forced into power/slotting choices, not to mention costs, for something that I wouldn't enjoy as much.

 

Thoughts?  Can I get by without Permadom for my play style, and enjoy my character and his performance how I'd like... or the game is just se up in a way where that's not possible, and bail now?

 

Thank you for your time and advice. 

My initial thoughts is that sure you can get by without perma dom, but Hasten? I kind of feel like you should want this. And though in IO slotting you dont have to reach perma dom levels of globall recharge the more you do have the more powers are going to be up, the more you can attack and control meaning the more effective  you gameplay will be, no matter what level  you want to run at. 

 

That being said, as an big fan of running perma dom let me just say, there are some advantages. First Dom grants you status protection, so prevents you from being held. Now you might think "oh well i can get Clarion in incarnates for that." And you are right, but if you dont take clarion in incarnates then you can take Barrier which gives you def and resistances for tough calls which is something you dont have alot of options for in dom powers or typical power pools. 

 

But over all to your question, no no dominator needs domination depending how they expect to perform. Running the basic difficulty where you are getting likely no more then 2 minions and a Lt in each spawn i cant imagine it would be a problem no matter how you built the character. Oh and BTW with Mind you can engage bosses if you want to. Confuse doesnt cause agro so you can stay at range and confuse a boss before starting a fight.

[nihilii]

In answer to the specific question in the OP of "do I need permadom to solo +0/x1/no bosses", the answer is a resounding NO.

 

You will be fine, no matter how you build. Some options make it "finer" than others, but nothing is required. You do not need Permadom. You do not need Hasten.

 

There will be the occasional elite boss fight that will be a significant difficulty bump. IMHO, for a casual approach even that is more easily handled by stacking defense with cheap sets (Thunderstrike etc.), staying at range, using Confusion, saving Domination to start the fight....

 

I just don't understand some of the answers in this thread. I think people are getting sidetracked by our usual minmax standards of "solo +4/x8", or perhaps something less extreme but still significantly more difficult than +0/x1/no bosses. In many +0/x1 missions, you can get by with your unslotted level 1 powers... at level 50!

[carroto]

2 hours ago, nihilii said:

I just don't understand some of the answers in this thread. I think people are getting sidetracked by our usual minmax standards of "solo +4/x8", or perhaps something less extreme but still significantly more difficult than +0/x1/no bosses.

I agree with most of what you said but I wonder if we read the same thread.  I see people mostly saying perma-Dom and Hasten are not needed but they do increase the power and enjoyability of a Dominator by enough that it's worth reconsidering them.  Seems reasonable to me.  I'm inclined to agree.  If someone's preferences lead them away from those things that's perfectly fine and will create an enjoyable and playable character, but they will be leaving performance on the table.  It's worth pointing that out, and that's mostly what I see in this thread.