Ranged sets never give Range global?

[arthurh35353]

Why doesn't Ranged and Ranged AOE sets give any global +range bonuses? It seems an incredibly rare buff that doesn't directly help attacks?

[Zepp]

Ranged:

Gladiator's Javelin - 2-set bonus: Enhancement (Range) 7.5% (PvP)

Ranged AoE:

Javelin Volley - 2-set bonus: Enhancement (Range) 7.5% (PvP)

Bombardment - 2-set bonus: Enhancement (Range) 5%

Sniper:

Experienced Marksman - 2-set bonus: Enhancement (Range) 5%

 

Corruptor/Blaster/Sentinel ATOs also give set bonuses (7.5->10% bonus for 3-set Corruptor/Blaster or 2-set Sentinel).

 

Maximum global range boost is 55% PvE, 77.5% PvP.

Maximum range for an ability 376.2 PvE, 428.7 PVP

Psionic Lance - Frankenslotted to optimize range in addition to giving reasonable performance: 359 PvE, 411.5 PvP.

 

I may need to make a Psi-Blaster to test out how this feels...

[Uun]

In addition, Cardiac and Intuition Alpha provide a 20% range bonus.

[Sakura Tenshi]

@Zepp

just play mender ramiel’s Arc, first mission gives you capped range bonus.

 

the short of it in my experience is that there’s a sharp falloff of +range utility, especially for PVP since you’d end up out of draw distance and have to run in and out to make full use of it.

[srmalloy]

7 hours ago, Sakura Tenshi said:

the short of it in my experience is that there’s a sharp falloff of +range utility, especially for PVP since you’d end up out of draw distance and have to run in and out to make full use of it.

Two words: Forward Observer.

 

With sufficient range enhancement, and Boost Range on top of that, targeting through a teammate lets you snipe targets that are otherwise invisible due to range. And you're far enough away that the spawn you're sniping just stands there until the second mob goes down.

[Zepp]

2 hours ago, srmalloy said:

Two words: Forward Observer.

 

With sufficient range enhancement, and Boost Range on top of that, targeting through a teammate lets you snipe targets that are otherwise invisible due to range. And you're far enough away that the spawn you're sniping just stands there until the second mob goes down.

Of course you could get the same effect with Superior Invisibility, but that limits you to a specific set.

[arthurh35353]

22 hours ago, Zepp said:

I may need to make a Psi-Blaster to test out how this feels...

So only 2 PvP ranged sets are 'ranged' and not snipes or ATO sets.

 

You've actually sort of proven the point, that there is no (small) +range bonus for the ranged and ranged AEOs set.

 

And I never actually stated that I was looking at huge set bonuses (though the Sentinel ATO sets at least get the set up to a good range again).

[Zepp]

3 hours ago, arthurh35353 said:

So only 2 PvP ranged sets are 'ranged' and not snipes or ATO sets.

 

You've actually sort of proven the point, that there is no (small) +range bonus for the ranged and ranged AEOs set.

 

And I never actually stated that I was looking at huge set bonuses (though the Sentinel ATO sets at least get the set up to a good range again).

Did you miss Bombardment?

[AerialAssault]

While I would like to see more Range increase bonus sets, if I were truly invested in increasing the range of a power I would just dump two non-set Range IO's into it and get far more use that way. I've done this on an AR/Eng Blaster, and having 142ft Grenade Launcher is truly hilarious (without Boost Range, with Boost Range it can go up to 195ft. Yelling "Yeet!" is not required, but encouraged.)

 

But, I am an absolute sucker for more Enhancements, and I would definitely like to see more proliferation of less used set bonuses, Range included among them.

[Sakura Tenshi]

Awhile back, I did actually start a thread about making up invention sets, and the one I submitted was actually basing it for my Beam/nin blaster: Sniper Joe who has some obvious inspirations in the attached image.

 

 

But the big thing about the set was that it's proc and sixth set bonus boosted range as follows:

Ranged Damage - Joe's Snipe (yes, it is ironic it does not go into a sniper set)

• Accuracy/Damage
• Damage/Endurance
• Damage/Recharge
• Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
• Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
• +15% Global Range increase (unique)

Set bonuses would be:

2: Increases Recovery by +2%

3: Improves accuracy of all powers by 5%

4: Increases Damage by 3%

5: Increases Recharge by 5%

6: Increases Range by 10%

 

As I mentioned when I posted it: the numbers are admittedly kind of absurdly large, but with how rare range bonuses are and how overall mediocore I deliberately tried to make the rest of the bonuses, I thought it might balance out.

Edited January 10, 2021 by Sakura Tenshi

[arthurh35353]

5 hours ago, Zepp said:

Did you miss Bombardment?

I did, actually. So one regular ranged AOE set.

 

And looking it over, that makes it more rare than +recharge.

Edited January 10, 2021 by arthurh35353

[Apparition]

42 minutes ago, arthurh35353 said:

I did, actually. So one regular ranged AOE set.

 

And looking it over, that makes it more rare than +recharge.

+Recharge is much more valuable and helpful in general than +range.

[srmalloy]

17 hours ago, Zepp said:

Of course you could get the same effect with Superior Invisibility, but that limits you to a specific set.

The character I had on Live was an AR/EM Blaster that I'd built to test Emmert's (*spit*) claim that "Range is a Blaster's defense". It worked pretty well until the update that gave all the mobs that didn't already have a ranged attack a ranged attack, and tweaked all of the ranged attacks so that many of them outranged a snipe with Boost Range active. It was still entertaining (and I recreated the character on HC with some differences) to be able to stand on the platform near Imperious in Cimerora and, with the help of someone who could actually see them, snipe/LRM the mobs in the courtyard on the north side of the valley.

[Vanden]

17 minutes ago, srmalloy said:

The character I had on Live was an AR/EM Blaster that I'd built to test Emmert's (*spit*) claim that "Range is a Blaster's defense". It worked pretty well until the update that gave all the mobs that didn't already have a ranged attack a ranged attack, and tweaked all of the ranged attacks so that many of them outranged a snipe with Boost Range active.

Man if you think Range isn't a defense, try fighting a typical group like Cimerorans, Freakshow, Family, or Devouring Earth and see how much more quickly they can kill you in melee than at range. It doesn't make someone a liar if they say range is a defense if staying at range doesn't make you literally untouchable.

[golstat2003]

1 hour ago, Vanden said:

Man if you think Range isn't a defense, try fighting a typical group like Cimerorans, Freakshow, Family, or Devouring Earth and see how much more quickly they can kill you in melee than at range. It doesn't make someone a liar if they say range is a defense if staying at range doesn't make you literally untouchable.

Staying at range is great bit of defense. A better defense is actually building the blaster out for softcapped defense, IMO, so that I don't have to worry about always staying at range.

 

To be fair I think that comment from Jack Emmert was waaay before using set IOs to make squishy toons less squishy became a thing.

[arthurh35353]

5 hours ago, Apparition said:

+Recharge is much more valuable and helpful in general than +range.

So why is +Range more rare?

[Alchemystic]

12 hours ago, arthurh35353 said:

So why is +Range more rare?

You've answered your own question.

 

It's rare because it's not that valuable or helpful. 

 

Edited January 11, 2021 by Tyrannical

[Uun]

3 hours ago, Tyrannical said:

You've answered your own question.

 

It's rare because it's not that valuable or helpful. 

 

I find +range quite valuable if you have cones.

[Alchemystic]

1 hour ago, Uun said:

I find +range quite valuable if you have cones.

Most cones tend to have a low target cap so if that got increased too I could see +range being far more helpful

 

 

Edited January 11, 2021 by Tyrannical

[arthurh35353]

7 hours ago, Tyrannical said:

You've answered your own question.

 

It's rare because it's not that valuable or helpful. 

 

Actually, that's usually the case of the opposite. Things that aren't useful are normally more common. I think you are working from a weird bias there.

[Alchemystic]

3 hours ago, arthurh35353 said:

Actually, that's usually the case of the opposite. Things that aren't useful are normally more common. I think you are working from a weird bias there.

How do you come to the conclusion I'm "biased"?

 

Things that are useful tend to be more accessible, while things that fill a niche role tend to appear less frequently.

Not sure what game you're playing, but it doesn't sound like CoH.

 

 

Edited January 12, 2021 by Tyrannical

[arthurh35353]

45 minutes ago, Tyrannical said:

How do you come to the conclusion I'm "biased"?

 

Things that are useful tend to be more accessible, while things that fill a niche role tend to appear less frequently.

Not sure what game you're playing, but it doesn't sound like CoH.

A game where +accuracy set bonuses are super common, but is generally overkill for most common play types? Where small amounts of normal +res are common, but +recharge is relatively uncommon in sets?

[Alchemystic]

1 hour ago, arthurh35353 said:

A game where +accuracy set bonuses are super common, but is generally overkill for most common play types? Where small amounts of normal +res are common, but +recharge is relatively uncommon in sets?

I defer to my earlier point; accuracy and resistance are more important than recharge or range.

 

What's the point in stacking recharge or range if your power keeps missing? Or if they don't deal enough damage? or the endurance cost bleeds you dry? The game is set up so you don't end up shooting yourself in the foot ignoring important mechanics in favor of ones that are pretty much useless on their own.

 

You also fail to realise that softcapping things like that isn't overkill, because there are a great many debuffs in the game that will target things like defense, resistance, accuracy, and so on... but very few that target things like range. You aren't just building to improve your character, you're creating a safety net for when things get dicey.

 

(Still not sure how that's me being "biased")

 

 

Edited January 12, 2021 by Tyrannical

[Night]

4 hours ago, arthurh35353 said:

Actually, that's usually the case of the opposite. Things that aren't useful are normally more common. I think you are working from a weird bias there.

In this game, things that are rare are IO's themselves. There is a set for anything useful, and all IO rarities have varying numbers for bonuses, going up with rarity, mainly defense/resistance and accuracy/damage. If you're obsessed with range, then easiest is make a /energy blaster and get range boost to perma. +range is useless compared to things like defense or accuracy, especially when most maps consist of caves or corridors where more range won't help you.

 

1 hour ago, arthurh35353 said:

A game where +accuracy set bonuses are super common, but is generally overkill for most common play types? Where small amounts of normal +res are common, but +recharge is relatively uncommon in sets?

If you play at +4, or even through incarnate level content like itrials or DA storyline, even base defense softcap won't be enough to be safe. Even in regular missions you can still be hit and gotta think of building a rounded build, even as a blaster. Those set bonuses are common throughout various IO sets because they are the most vital ones for a pumped-up build and distributed so that no matter your powerset combinaiton you have access to the highest tiers of them.