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aeb
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A discussion of wanting vehicles cropped up in game. On reflection, I understand that making cars and other things that have to stay on the ground might be difficult to execute. However, we do have three flying vehicle options through the P2W vendor. The hoverboard, void skiff, and flying carpet work fairly well, though you can leave your armor on while using them, which can make arriving at a hot location tricky. Still, may I respectfully suggest that a few more options would be welcome as well? Like maybe a broom, a Pegasus, and a dragon? And what else?聽馃槃

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Oh, I know. COH just isn't really a 'vehicle' game. Not sure it's worth cluttering up the visuals with a bunch of vehicle-y emotes.

v3.20 Technical Guide (27p3)... 140 pages of complete, comprehensive and validated info on on the nuts and bolts!
ALSO:聽 GABB Bindfile聽 路聽 BadgeDRADIS聽 路聽 City of Zeroes聽 路聽 Teleport Guide聽 all at聽 www.Shenanigunner.com

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19 hours ago, Player2 said:

The most key argument for implementing any new ideas at this point:聽 already exists in some form in the game

As long as you remember that exists for NPCs =/= easily available for toons.

Many NPC elements have proven to be built or implemented in a way that can't be repurposed for player costumes, emotes, powers etc.

v3.20 Technical Guide (27p3)... 140 pages of complete, comprehensive and validated info on on the nuts and bolts!
ALSO:聽 GABB Bindfile聽 路聽 BadgeDRADIS聽 路聽 City of Zeroes聽 路聽 Teleport Guide聽 all at聽 www.Shenanigunner.com

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19 hours ago, Player2 said:

The most key argument for implementing any new ideas at this point:聽 already exists in some form in the game

So ... The Motorcycle that some of the Thug MM pets show up riding when summoned?

Please say yes, we can have that as an alternate appearance for some sort of travel (Super Speed, it's own P2W ala Ninja/Athletic Run..) 馃槈

22 minutes ago, Shenanigunner said:

As long as you remember that exists for NPCs =/= easily available for toons.

I know, but it's fun to dream. 馃槃

Yes, I know that particular example is most likely in the "Not even remotely easy to port to PCs" category.

Edited by InvaderStych

"... And I'd kill to get away; I'd die to make my own way.聽 And I'd lose to celebrate;聽 I'd win to see the good days.聽 And I'll never stop the fighting, so bring to me your worst.

I'll never stop believing that I could rule the world one day ..."

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16 minutes ago, InvaderStych said:

So ... The Motorcycle that some of the Thug MM pets show up riding when summoned?

Please say yes, we can have that as an alternate appearance for some sort of travel (Super Speed, it's own P2W ala Ninja/Athletic Run..) 馃槈

I know, but it's fun to dream. 馃槃

Yes, I know that particular example is most likely in the "Not even remotely easy to port to PCs" category.

Unfortunately, the motorcycle rider only rides it as an entrance.聽 Technically, it is feasible to put player characters on the motorcycle, but there would need to be a butt-load of re-coding to use it as a vehicle.聽 The problem, as stated by the old devs on Live, is that player movement wouldn't change with a vehicle (except to add a Y axis for flying things) so if we were on a motorcycle we could immediately back up, turn on a dime, or even strafe sideways in a way that would look completely immersion-breaking of motorcycle use.

But the motorcycle COULD聽technically see player use in another way... if it were added to the list of hurled objects with Gravity Control -> Propel.聽 Perhaps we could also see it added as a static item in the base builder, too, along with other vehicles that exist in the game but can't actually be used by players.

Edited by Player2
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I'm leery of adding vehicles, in part because of what happened with vehicle proliferation in CO. Here's my overall concerns on travel powers - which is mainly posted as food for thought to whomever is thinking about the overall player experience of travel.

Vehicles vs Powers - Which Is Best For The Game?

Adding vehicles (and temp travel powers) all undermine the value of travel powers. It might be that ship already sailed the moment the jump pack was introduced, but all of this pushes travel powers to the sidelines.

To ask a related question: does the CoH player experience聽want people to invest a power pick in order to travel?

If the answer is no, it immediately brings into question every power that is predominantly for travel purposes (flight, mystic flight, superjump, etc) and it's value.

So, to my mind, if the push is for more travel options that don't require power investment, then any power investment should be reviewed with the question: what does it bring to a build beyond travel?

Travel and New Players - Presenting Travel In The Best Light

Another consideration (albeit a minor one) would be the new player experience. Travel powers are presented clearly as part of the level-up path the moment you hit level 4, making that a go-to for a new player since that's what's dangled in front of them. However, without temp powers being given similar exposure you risk people making an early power pick that they quickly regret, now needing a limited resource (respec) to correct.

So if temp powers is the way forward, I'd look very carefully at ways to push people (especially new players) towards them - even if it's just a text only mini-quest or something set up in a starter zone that directs people over to the P2W vendor and suggests they grab a jump pack the moment they hit level 2 or level 3.

I'd also seriously look at adding the default travel methods (flight, superspeed, teleport, superjump) as things you can grab from the P2W vendor so people aren't forced to a certain travel aesthetic in the interest of build integrity. This even more obviously raises the question of the value of these powers in their respective pools.

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1 hour ago, Kid_Gloves said:

I'm leery of adding vehicles, in part because of what happened with vehicle proliferation in CO. Here's my overall concerns on travel powers - which is mainly posted as food for thought to whomever is thinking about the overall player experience of travel.

Vehicles vs Powers - Which Is Best For The Game?

Adding vehicles (and temp travel powers) all undermine the value of travel powers. It might be that ship already sailed the moment the jump pack was introduced, but all of this pushes travel powers to the sidelines.

To ask a related question: does the CoH player experience聽want people to invest a power pick in order to travel?

If the answer is no, it immediately brings into question every power that is predominantly for travel purposes (flight, mystic flight, superjump, etc) and it's value.

So, to my mind, if the push is for more travel options that don't require power investment, then any power investment should be reviewed with the question: what does it bring to a build beyond travel?

I think a distinction in travel powers taken from pools as opposed to being temp powers is that the pool powers should be superior.聽 For one thing, you can enhance them for speed or endurance reduction or stealth.聽 Temp powers / vehicles cannot be enhanced at all and should be a little slower and more endurance heavy since you can't slot even a single End.Redux in them.聽 Currently, there's not much benefit to the core travel powers and the newer origin-based pool travel powers have the benefit of combined effects... so it might be time to give the core powers a review to see if there's anything that can be done to make them better.

Some off the top of my head suggestions:

Flight:聽 +ToHit bonus while Flight is toggled on.聽 Rationale:Fast 3D movement gives the flyer better positioning to attack, allowing you to choose to be a slow-moving Defensive flyer or quick agile attacker.

Super Jump:聽 +Damage bonus while Super Jump is toggled on.聽聽Rationale:Jumping around builds momentum which allows you to put a little extra oomph into your attacks.

Super Speed:聽 +Defense bonus while Super Speed is toggled on.聽聽Rationale:Already hard to see with partial stealth, moving fast should make you harder to hit.

Teleportation:聽 聽Not sure what to do with this one, if anything, since the entire revamp of the teleportation pool has greatly enhanced the overall feel... though Teleport itself feels kind of weak, there's no temp power like it aside from the various long range teleport options (allowing you to jump to specific zones, mission doors, base, auction house, etc).

1 hour ago, Kid_Gloves said:

Travel and New Players - Presenting Travel In The Best Light

Another consideration (albeit a minor one) would be the new player experience. Travel powers are presented clearly as part of the level-up path the moment you hit level 4, making that a go-to for a new player since that's what's dangled in front of them. However, without temp powers being given similar exposure you risk people making an early power pick that they quickly regret, now needing a limited resource (respec) to correct.

Respecs are easily acquired.聽 I think you get one every 10 levels now, as well as being able to get Respec recipe drops (or purchase at the Auction House), or complete missions to gain.聽 The game is not especially punishing of inexperienced people making uninformed choices.

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  • 2 weeks later

With concern about game balance, may I suggest we look at what we have before claiming things need reworking. 馃檪

There are three unmodifiable flight powers available through the P2W vendor: hoverboard, void skiff, and flying carpet. They always cost 1,000,000 inf, and are slightly slower than fly or superjump, but this isn't too bad, even when the zone is large. I often arrive last at the next door when running a Task Force if I use them, but I've usually only missed a battle or two.聽However, they wipe out other power use the same way Walk does, including any and all armor. This聽makes arriving, leaving, or passing through a hot location more than a little tricky.聽

There are three unmodifiable running-and-jumping powers available through the P2W vendor: Beast聽Run, Ninja Run, and Athletic run. A few of my characters use them because they either haven't gotten a regular travel power, or because they use a P2W flying power instead of a travel power, but want to keep their armor on for this trip. They are distinctly slower than unmodifiable flight powers, never mind the pool powers; I tend to miss 2-4 battles using them. However, they do allow you to use most powers while using them, unlike the hoverboard, etc.聽

There are two unmodifiable jump powers available from the P2W vendor, Jump Pack and Steam Jump. They are tricky to make work for travelling, due to shutting off together whichever is used, so you can't alternate for greater use time. Also, you can severely injure a character if you just keep jumping like with superjump, since they don't聽have a top to the arc. You just keep going up as long as you depress the space bar, where superjump, combat jump, and the jumps in the running-and-jumping powers all will top out and come down after a while, even if you're still pressing space. I'm not certain if I'd had to send anyone to聽the hospital because of this, but I know I've gotten some over half way to needing to on a single jump without a large building or tall cliff involved.

There are a few buyable jet packs and one dayjob accolade jetpack that do allow power use. I believe they all are unmodifiable, and come with limited durations. The dayjob accolade does two hours at maximum charge. It's rechargeable by parking in one of聽the jobs you got it with, but it takes a few days of waiting there to charge, so you can't use it too often too long. The rest can be recharged or replaced聽immediately by paying enough inf. to the right vendor, but then you're out more inf.聽

There are I don't know how many travel pool powers, some of which move fast while allowing you to wear armor, but provide no armor themselves, and a few of which do provide armor, but are much slower, and cannot be used with any faster power I've tried, though at least one can be sped up, but only part of the time. All of these can be slotted for improvement.聽

When I asked for a broom or other vehicles, I expected them to have the same slight speed and significant power use limitations the current P2W flying powers聽do. I usually prefer travel pool because I can wear armor without worrying about how long it's on, but not always. I still think being able to buy a broom or a flying mount or two would聽be nice, and should maintain the current game balance, which I think works pretty聽well, actually. 馃檪

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While I agree that there are enough travel options currently in game either as a power pick or P2W purchase or Day Job benefit (hence rendering the request for additional travel options unnecessary... at this point at least), I do so want a motorcycle or [insert hero name here]-mobile and/or -jet/copter. Fully customisable in the character creation, and with some degree of utility other than just travel. I realise this pipe dream will require copious amount of work, probably not commensurate to the value it will add, and most likely present a butt-load of problems to seamlessly accommodate it (parking system: parking lot, parking fees, parking attendants, valet, etc.), I still think my guy in a leather jacket and bike helmet will look THAT much cooler with an actual bike. 馃槂

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I wonder if it could be done as a Temporary Costume Power, like from Halloween, that you don't actually ride on, it is just a skin that uses your existing current costume ( like in that Praetoria mission where they show a giant statue of Your Character at the end ) and merge it with the biker's Bike animation from the Mastermind set, and it just moves with you like you were walking or running, probably way to much of a ton of work, I know, but I want a Harley.

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it's just right for me..."

( Unless it's Raining, or Cold, or Really Dirty

or there are Sappers, Man I hate those Guys...)

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