Unable to Enjoy Melee on Homecoming

[Apparition]

Prior to sunset, I mainly played Brutes and Corruptors, with a couple of Scrappers and a couple of Defenders for when I had to play blue side.  On Homecoming, I've found that the only ATs I enjoy are Blasters and Corruptors. 

 

Prior to sunset, my favorite secondary was Electrical Armor.  I had at least a half dozen */Elec Armor Brutes, if not more.  It was my favorite for two reasons.  I primarily fight Rikti, where Lethal, Energy, and Psionic Damage reign.  Electrical Armor can handle all of that with ease.  Plus there's the yummy +recharge.  A friend told me that Radiation Armor is so much better than Electrical Armor on Homecoming though, so the first Brute I made was a Radiation Melee/Radiation Armor Brute.  I got it to level 50, got it to veteran level 100 with all of the Incarnates Tier 4ed... but I wound up stripping and deleting the character as I could just never get into Radiation Armor.  It's ugly, and too dependent on absorption and heals IMO.

 

Second attempt was a Fiery Melee/Energy Aura Stalker.  Again, I got it to level 50, got it to veteran level 100 with all of the Incarnates Tier 4ed... but I wound up stripping and deleting the character.  Between runners and the annoying bug where Assassin's Strike would occasionally fail, I just decided that the whole AT is not for me.

 

Third attempt was a Martial Arts/Energy Aura Scrapper.  I got it to about level 35, and stripped and deleted it.  I found the whole critical hit thing too random, and the lack of a taunt aura again meant runners.

 

Fourth attempt was an Electrical Armor/Claws Tanker.  I got it to about level 35, and stripped and deleted it.  It just felt too lumbering, slow, and low damage.

 

Fifth attempt was a Martial Arts/Electrical Armor Brute.  I got it to level 50, and about veteran level 50 with all of the Incarnates Tier 4ed.  I finally enjoyed a melee character... up until I had to tank Lord Recluse in the Miss Liberty Task Force, where the lack of knockback resistance hit me hard.  I never recalled that happening with all of my various Electrical Armor Brutes prior to sunset, but a friend explained that we always had a Kin with us who kept spamming Increased Density on me, which is why I never noticed it.  Since that wasn't an option this time around, Lord Recluse kept knocking me around Grandville.  I tried a bunch of different methods to prevent it from happening again, but the only method that worked was to use Hover while tanking.  Ugh.  Stripped and deleted.

 

Sixth attempt was a Radiation Melee/Energy Aura Brute.  I got it to level 50... and it's feeling mighty squishy.  Capped S/L/E defense is nice, but eventually hits get through, and sometimes within a couple I'm down and out for the count.  Yes, I'm using Energize and keeping it perma-ed along with Hasten.  I'm about this close to stripping and deleting it as well.

 

I know Bio Armor is great, but that's out for me because much like Radiation Armor, it's ugly, even with minimal FX.  Another issue I have with playing melee is that with the Incarnate content, melee is severely punished and it feels like I need to have a minimum of one ranged damage attack in the build to be semi-functional in Incarnate content.

 

I don't know.  Perhaps melee is just not for me anymore, but I'd be open to suggestions.

Edited January 16, 2021 by Apparition

[InvaderStych]

Savage/Shield on a scrapper.  If I wasn't already running Psi/SD and Sav/SR on scrappers I'd probably build one.

 

Using the +50% crit proc in Savage Leap is almost like a cheat code for crits.

 

Scrapper Shield Charge is a revelation.

 

You'll still get the occasional runner, even with AAO.  Combat Teleport or an Epic blast makes short work of those.  Fully built out you'd probably have Leap on about a 15s or less cooldown, which also makes short work of runners.

 

Comprehensive Mez defenses, and decent DDR, even before double-stacking AD. Easy to soft-cap with moderate resistance underneath and a couple hundred extra HP as well.

 

Yeah, Savage is all Lethal, blah, blah, blah, who cares.  You won't notice the effects of the dmg type, unless you spent all your time hunting Council and Malta Bots.  Drop FotG -Res in Leap along with the ATO proc, some dmg procs, and/or Acc/Dmg pieces and you're good to go.

 

Downsides? End use from /SD during leveling can be brutal.  Savage doesn't really get going until Leap, but it's still fun to play.  My Psi/SD is sort of pigeon-holed into Energy Pool.  Savage's endredux mechanic might counter that somewhat.

Edited January 16, 2021 by InvaderStych

[Cendwar]

I'm spines/elec. Vet level 400 something. Not looking back, just living with whatever few flaws my powersets have. I've always loved spines, wanted to give elec a fair try because it seemed like a strong res type and it is. I ended up liking it. I have personally tanked LR many times in the TF while the rest of the team beat his web (although it's been a long time since I've done it). Lord Recluse will knock most people around because his knockback magnitude is just too high, you can't let the little things like that bug you and scrap your whole character over it. The only time /elec lacks knockback is when you're off the ground, aside from that you have more KB prot than other ATs (15.5 mag prot iirc).

 

Someone posted a page on the wiki that listed the kb magnitude of EVERY attack in the game and I was foolish to not bookmark it... but as a general tip, if you're building defensively and want more KB prot you can mix eradication with gladiator pbaoe sets for +3kb prot and energy def

[tristanLV]

I've probably ran with over 25 melee builds so far and nothing has felt more satisfying than my fire/dark tank. This combo feels like a brute but has the survivability of a tank. With the changes to Touch of Fear, the build I was using was tearing up content at every level, even steamrolling Positron 1&2. I was able to tank Recluse too with Ageless and spamming Healing Flames.

Fiery Embrace + Soul Drain + Burn (w/ FotG proc) + Touch of Fear + Shadow Maul will clear all lieuts/minions..
Then it's Midnight Grasp + Siphon Life to melt any remaining bosses. 

 

Honorable mention to War Mace. Nothing in the game feels like it has more impact for me than Crowd Control + Shatter + Clobber. So chunky.

 

[Greycat]

8 hours ago, Apparition said:

I don't know.  Perhaps melee is just not for me anymore, but I'd be open to suggestions.

Might be. First thing I'd say is stop deleting characters 🙂  I've let some sit I wasn't thrilled with while I was first playing them, then they just "clicked" again later. Strip them, sure, rename them, but hey, you have 1000 slots, space isn't an issue.

 

Second thing would be, "What are you looking for when you play?" Even with the same sets, ATs can have a different feel. (I've got two staff/wp characters, for instance, one at 50, one at 47/48. The brute, I love, the scrapper feels like it's "missing something," but I like the character as a *character* enough to keep going with it, for instance.)

 

Third... what are you not liking? I see in your post that you enjoyed electric armor - and primarily fought Rikti. (Which I get. Elec/elec sentinel, during Rikti invasions I tend to try to sit between lowbies and the dropships, since I can eat several dropship hits without flinching.) But you deleted here after LR, which is ... pretty different. Was it *just* that one experience, are you planning on running on MLTFs frequently, did more happen... ?

 

What I'm mostly getting at is, people can throw out suggestions of what they like and why all day, but without knowing what *you're* looking for, it's hard to help. (And, honestly, I made this exact same thread on live about masterminds. My bots/ff was fairly untouchable, but was about to bore me off of masterminds as a whole. Posted trying to figure out if it was something about the AT, something I was missing, or if it just wasn't for me. Basically decided I wanted to be more active during that thread, made a thugs/poison, and loved the trip to 50. So, yeah. Not just you running into things like this! Just have to get the right information out to help.) 

[mcdoogss]

On 1/16/2021 at 6:34 PM, InvaderStych said:

Savage/Shield on a scrapper.  If I wasn't already running Psi/SD and Sav/SR on scrappers I'd probably build one.

 

Using the +50% crit proc in Savage Leap is almost like a cheat code for crits.

 

Scrapper Shield Charge is a revelation.

 

You'll still get the occasional runner, even with AAO.  Combat Teleport or an Epic blast makes short work of those.  Fully built out you'd probably have Leap on about a 15s or less cooldown, which also makes short work of runners.

 

Comprehensive Mez defenses, and decent DDR, even before double-stacking AD. Easy to soft-cap with moderate resistance underneath and a couple hundred extra HP as well.

 

Yeah, Savage is all Lethal, blah, blah, blah, who cares.  You won't notice the effects of the dmg type, unless you spent all your time hunting Council and Malta Bots.  Drop FotG -Res in Leap along with the ATO proc, some dmg procs, and/or Acc/Dmg pieces and you're good to go.

 

Downsides? End use from /SD during leveling can be brutal.  Savage doesn't really get going until Leap, but it's still fun to play.  My Psi/SD is sort of pigeon-holed into Energy Pool.  Savage's endredux mechanic might counter that somewhat.

Hemorrage is pretty terrible now after it was nerfed.  Savage leap is dope though.

 

 

As for OP, melee fortunata is really fun, powerful and durable.  

Edited January 18, 2021 by mcdoogss

[Gulbasaur]

On 1/16/2021 at 10:01 PM, Apparition said:

I don't know.  Perhaps melee is just not for me anymore, but I'd be open to suggestions.

I totally changed what I enjoy playing... I used to really enjoy ranged support so defenders and controllers were my thing. My current favourite now is fortunata (mostly melee), followed by tanker or stalker. 

 

On 1/18/2021 at 1:11 AM, mcdoogss said:

As for OP, melee fortunata is really fun, powerful and durable.  

I'll second fortunatas - mostly melee but with range and control when needed (Dominate ❤️) as well as lots of ToHit and Defence radiating out of you, meaning your teammates are generally upright longer. They're got a grab-bag of powers more than the other epic archetypes (peacebringers and warshades each have their own flavour, crab and bane spiders both have a tight concept to them... fortunatas are psychics with knife hands and defence buffs) but that makes them incredibly flexible. 

 

I had a nice moment with mine a few days ago in the LRSF where I confused Back Alley Brawler tanking Manticore with my knife hands and providing something like 20% defence for my allies. It's like they were airdropped in from another game. 

Edited January 29, 2021 by Gulbasaur

[Infinitum]

On 1/16/2021 at 5:01 PM, Apparition said:

Sixth attempt was a Radiation Melee/Energy Aura Brute.  I got it to level 50... and it's feeling mighty squishy.  Capped S/L/E defense is nice, but eventually hits get through, and sometimes within a couple I'm down and out for the count.  Yes, I'm using Energize and keeping it perma-ed along with Hasten.  I'm about this close to stripping and deleting it as well.

Are you opening with energy drain at all?

 

Occassionaly I will get rocked but energize pulls through.  That's just how the set plays.  Harder groups open with energy drain for the added defense, and save energize for when you get in trouble, then recast energy drain - it recharges so fast there's no reason not to use it liberally as needed.

 

Squishy isn't how I would ever describe EA on any thing.

[UltraAlt]

On 1/16/2021 at 5:01 PM, Apparition said:

but I wound up stripping and deleting the character

 

On 1/16/2021 at 5:01 PM, Apparition said:

but I wound up stripping and deleting the character.

 

On 1/16/2021 at 5:01 PM, Apparition said:

I got it to about level 35, and stripped and deleted it.

 

On 1/16/2021 at 5:01 PM, Apparition said:

I got it to about level 35, and stripped and deleted it.

 

On 1/16/2021 at 5:01 PM, Apparition said:

Stripped and deleted.

 

On 1/16/2021 at 5:01 PM, Apparition said:

I'm about this close to stripping and deleting it as well.

 

On 1/16/2021 at 5:01 PM, Apparition said:

I don't know.  Perhaps melee is just not for me anymore, but I'd be open to suggestions.

 

You have 1000 slots per server, so maybe deleting characters doesn't need to be a thing.

 

On 1/16/2021 at 5:01 PM, Apparition said:

Between runners and the annoying bug where Assassin's Strike would occasionally fail,

Needing to make a successful hit roll on any attack is the game working as intended.

 

On 1/16/2021 at 5:01 PM, Apparition said:

I'd be open to suggestions

If playing melee is annoying you then play what you enjoy and stop playing what you don't like.

 

 

Edited January 18, 2021 by UltraAlt

[InvaderStych]

13 hours ago, mcdoogss said:

Hemorrage is pretty terrible now after it was nerfed.  Savage leap is dope though.

Wait, there was a time Hemm was actually good?

 

Wouldn't know.  Skipped it on my Brute (first toon back at HC) and never looked back.

[mcdoogss]

2 hours ago, InvaderStych said:

Wait, there was a time Hemm was actually good?

 

Wouldn't know.  Skipped it on my Brute (first toon back at HC) and never looked back.

Well situationally good for ATs that can crit, but it’s DoT used to crit (and crit real big).  And stalkers being able to crit on demand meant you could drop big numbers on a single target

Edited January 18, 2021 by mcdoogss

[Apparition]

I'm just at the point where I legitimately cannot see a use for an all melee damage AT in the game as it stands now.  There is content in the game which requires ranged damage, which makes Scrappers and Stalkers kind of useless unless they're Claws, Kinetics Melee, or have a ranged attack from their ancillary pool.  There is no content in the game which requires melee damage.  Between the Defense Amplifier and Clarion Core Destiny, mez protection is no longer an issue on "squishies."  Blasters do just as much, or more, damage as Scrappers and Stalkers.

 

I do see a limited use for tanks, but I want one that has very good protection against lethal damage, energy damage, and psionic damage, with full knockback protection and resistance.  As far as I can tell, such a thing does not exist.

 

I'm going to give a Shield/Energy Melee Tanker a try at some point, but if I don't like that, that will probably be the end of my melee experiment on Homecoming.

 

As for why I delete characters... my original gameplan was to have: three buffer characters, three debuffer characters, three melee DPS characters, three ranged DPS characters, three tank characters, three Masterminds, three miscellaneous characters, and two farming characters.  Grand total of 23 characters.  I do not want much more than that as I don't see the point nor need for any more characters than that, and it would just get too unwieldy for me.

 

Now I'm leaning towards three buffer characters, three debuffer characters, six ranged DPS characters, three tank characters, three Masterminds, three miscellaneous characters, and two farming characters.

[Razia]

On 1/23/2021 at 9:16 PM, Apparition said:

I'm just at the point where I legitimately cannot see a use for an all melee damage AT in the game as it stands now.  There is content in the game which requires ranged damage, which makes Scrappers and Stalkers kind of useless unless they're Claws, Kinetics Melee, or have a ranged attack from their ancillary pool.  There is no content in the game which requires melee damage.  Between the Defense Amplifier and Clarion Core Destiny, mez protection is no longer an issue on "squishies."  Blasters do just as much, or more, damage as Scrappers and Stalkers.

 

I do see a limited use for tanks, but I want one that has very good protection against lethal damage, energy damage, and psionic damage, with full knockback protection and resistance.  As far as I can tell, such a thing does not exist.

 

I'm going to give a Shield/Energy Melee Tanker a try at some point, but if I don't like that, that will probably be the end of my melee experiment on Homecoming.

 

As for why I delete characters... my original gameplan was to have: three buffer characters, three debuffer characters, three melee DPS characters, three ranged DPS characters, three tank characters, three Masterminds, three miscellaneous characters, and two farming characters.  Grand total of 23 characters.  I do not want much more than that as I don't see the point nor need for any more characters than that, and it would just get too unwieldy for me.

 

Now I'm leaning towards three buffer characters, three debuffer characters, six ranged DPS characters, three tank characters, three Masterminds, three miscellaneous characters, and two farming characters.

My Rad/Claws tank has all resists capped at 90%, and Cold is around 70% and Psy 75%, I wouldn't call that a hole. Of course she has not much defenses, but as far as I know she does not have DDR anyway. The rest gets handled with the Absorb Shield and the Heal.

 

I also have an SD/EM Tank, which is nuts and should not exist. A T9 resist power on top of positional defenses is just crazy. Juggle that with Assasult Melee.... I have around 10 Controllers and 8 Corruptors and I just started rolling melee toons on Homecoming (had some on live) and I enjoy them very much. Maybe just play something else now and come back later? (I mean ATs).

 

And no AT is really neede in endgame, but none of them are useless either.

Edited January 27, 2021 by Razia

[Mr. Vee]

On 1/18/2021 at 9:24 AM, UltraAlt said:

Needing to make a successful hit roll on any attack is the game working as intended.

That's not what the OP meant. There's a weird failed animation thing with slow AS that's not based on being interrupted or a failed hit. It just takes your endurance and derps. But then again I'd advise anyone giving up on stalker based on that to try the no slow AS playstyle, which I find a million times more fun anyway.

[Greycat]

On 1/23/2021 at 2:16 PM, Apparition said:

I'm just at the point where I legitimately cannot see a use for an all melee damage AT in the game as it stands now.

... there are very few characters who can or should just be looked at as "damage range." That melee damage *generally* also comes with survivability and some degree of aggro management. Melee will get a higher HP pool, armor and mez protection because they do have to *get into* melee.

 

On 1/23/2021 at 2:16 PM, Apparition said:

There is content in the game which requires ranged damage, which makes Scrappers and Stalkers kind of useless unless they're Claws, Kinetics Melee, or have a ranged attack from their ancillary pool.  There is no content in the game which requires melee damage. 

 

Also can't think of anything off the top of my head which *requires* ranged damage, other than during a hami raid perhaps.

[UltraAlt]

2 hours ago, Mr. Vee said:

That's not what the OP meant. There's a weird failed animation thing with slow AS that's not based on being interrupted or a failed hit. It just takes your endurance and derps. But then again I'd advise anyone giving up on stalker based on that to try the no slow AS playstyle, which I find a million times more fun anyway.

I don't have any problem with mine using END if I don't miss.

I have multiple stalkers.

If it doesn't go off, it doesn't use END.

Maybe this is some post level 50 issue.

[Mr. Vee]

I'm not sure what it is, it behaves like an interrupt but with nothing interrupting. I've only seen it a few times personally b/c I only very rarely use slow version but I've heard several folks complaining about it. 

[tidge]

4 hours ago, Mr. Vee said:

That's not what the OP meant. There's a weird failed animation thing with slow AS that's not based on being interrupted or a failed hit. It just takes your endurance and derps. But then again I'd advise anyone giving up on stalker based on that to try the no slow AS playstyle, which I find a million times more fun anyway.

We've had various threads here is one:

 

 

My own reply on that thread does include the observation that (for /Bio) Offensive Adaptation will still put damage on the target, even if all of the other possible sources of damage are not applied (when the bug occurs).

[Strawberry]

I apologize if this comes across as harsh, but it sounds like you are expecting to find a combo without any weaknesses whatsoever, and when some small inconvenience happens that stops you from being a steamroller through missions, you completely abandon the character. If that's the case, I would continue looking at Brutes, because that's probably the closest you'll find to what you are aiming for if you want a melee archetype, but there is 'perfect' combo without any weaknesses. If there were, this game would honestly bore tf out of me. I, for one, enjoy a challenge.

[Apparition]

On 1/27/2021 at 7:32 AM, Greycat said:

... there are very few characters who can or should just be looked at as "damage range." That melee damage *generally* also comes with survivability and some degree of aggro management. Melee will get a higher HP pool, armor and mez protection because they do have to *get into* melee.

 

 

Also can't think of anything off the top of my head which *requires* ranged damage, other than during a hami raid perhaps.

 

The problem is that Blasters and Corruptors are survivable enough, and also have mez protection from a variety of sources (Defense Amplifier, Clarion Destiny, Break Free inspirations, etc.).

 

Lady Grey TF and most Incarnate content requires ranged damage.  You're not going to get into melee much and survive during an Apex TF or MoM Trial for instance.  For the things that require melee damage (Lady Grey TF and Hamidon raids), Blasters can do that too.

 

 

14 minutes ago, Strawberry said:

I apologize if this comes across as harsh, but it sounds like you are expecting to find a combo without any weaknesses whatsoever, and when some small inconvenience happens that stops you from being a steamroller through missions, you completely abandon the character. If that's the case, I would continue looking at Brutes, because that's probably the closest you'll find to what you are aiming for if you want a melee archetype, but there is 'perfect' combo without any weaknesses. If there were, this game would honestly bore tf out of me. I, for one, enjoy a challenge.

 

Nah.  Electric Armor has a toxic damage hole, and that's fine.  Energy Aura has holes to psionic damage and toxic damage, and that's fine.  It's more that from everything I've seen and experienced over the past nearly two years of playing on Homecoming, there's no real point to playing melee.  Blasters and Corruptors are just plain better.  They're more than survivable enough, and don't have the considerable shortcomings melee has, especially in endgame content.

[lemming]

I have started playing my Elec/Elec Brute again, and the KB has always annoyed me, but I picked up some KB protection that solves the issue.  At least the occasional KB when I'm in the middle of Lightning Rod.  😄  She was my first redside char back on live and second char rolled up here.

I find I still prefer melee for most days, though I do have a healthy crop of ranged chars.

Edited February 13, 2021 by lemming

[Crysis]

Sometimes you just like what you like and forcing yourself to like something everyone else says is “da bomb” just doesn’t work.

 

I’ve played this game since 2004, other than the dark years, and I can count on one hand the total number of Defenders and Controllers I’ve taken to 50 and enjoyed playing after, well before even Incarnates were around.  I just don’t like playing support.  Some people, that’s their thing.  For me, I feel like I’m the audience at a Superhero show.  Since HC came around, I’ve made exactly one Controller T4’d out.  Slog for me, had to force myself to keep playing it.  

 

Direct-damage AT’s are my thing.  Blasters, Scrappers, Stalkers, Corruptors and even lol Sentinels.  Dom’s can be fun.  I love playing Masterminds because they actually take a little effort to keep your pets under control, and thus the whole “audience support” role is more interactive.  So they are an AT unto themselves.  But if I can’t make big orange numbers by myself, I just don’t feel very useful and my enjoyment drops.  

 

Just play what you want.  I do keep dreaming of a day when Sentinels receive a damage buff.  Because on paper they are about the perfect scratch for my itch....short-ranged melee fighters.  And Regen actually works for them in that role.  But until then, I find Melee a very enjoyable play style.