Do Dominators Need a Buff?

[DZKFire]

Long time dominator player, I would propose only a few buffs:

 

QoL: having 2 auto fire slots with one of them taking priority if both are not on cool down, not just for dominators but for all classes. The obvious reason is Hasten+Domination, but other classes would benefit greatly as well. E.g. I would love to have wild bastion and overgrowth on auto fire on my Nature defender too.

 

Shorter activation time for Domination: yes the cast time is already short, but between juggling Hasten, Domination and possibly powe (build) up, there are just too many interruptions. I'm used to this though, being a Fortunata player with Mind Link, Nature defender, active armor sets on my tank etc..

 

Small endurance discount: End problems are no where near as bad as MMs but it really can get bad, even with Domination refilling the blue bar. Dominators don't have sustain (unless your /psi) unlike Blasters, so with 2 active powersets, endurance starts disappearing fast. Maybe reduce the end cost on some of the AoE CCs? The AoE holds already has massive penalties to it (long cooldown, low accuracy, short duration etc...). That would help controllers too.

[Mezmera]

4 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

Meh. Possibly meh? I've got a couple doms. One is permadom without hasten. One is permadom with hasten. Another one hit 50 but hasn't really been played since. I think I also suffer from the "too many damn powers to choose from while in combat" feeling. Having to add to the clutter with macros for all the targeted clicks just to make them single click attacks doesn't help. Do they need a buff? Probably not. Do I like the way domination functions? No, not really. I'd far rather they have a passive inherent. Adjust all the control mags to 50% between dom and not dom values and call it a day.

I'd say if you feel you have too many attacks/controls at your disposal and not much time to use them then you are probably correct in your assessment.  Typically on any dom I have I take 5-6 of the best controls/attacks with a good mix of aoe controls and attacks along with the stronger ST damage.  I cringe anytime I see a dom with more than 6 attacks, I get sometimes for set building reasons but the AT is already slot starved so focusing on the important stuff is where it's at on a dom.  With the open powers I build myself up with the pool and epic powers.  My dom has better defenses than my stalkers with hard aggressive controls to boot.  She's much more fun than playing my tank, my tank can't aggro control 48 targets at a time if she so chooses.  

[Mezmera]

As a purely QoL feature that'd really help those that aren't trained to keep their eye glued to re-clicking domination I'd totally advocate for a way to have there being two auto-click powers at your disposal.  I know that may be a hard ask with the coding as it is but this feature would benefit everyone plus make life easier for new dom players.  Also, it'd be nice if we could switch the villain alignment auto fill domination power to either vigilante or rogue since most people would like to team on whatever side they are on without having to jump to pocket D every time.  It's a nice little power and even though I may be a villain I masquerade as a rogue so I can gather intel on them pesky heroes.  

[tidge]

3 hours ago, Machariel said:

 I would definitely like to see improvements in one regard:

 

Their ATO sets!

 

Ascendancy of the Dominator is probably OK as is.  On one hand it has insanely useful set bonuses when 6 slotted (10% rech and 5% ranged def!) and a lot of the sets that fit into control powers are pretty gross so it's nice to have a set that can fit anywhere.  On the other hand, I've never been a big fan of the stacking +damage bonus, because I'm usually not spamming control powers that aren't slotted for damage, if at all.  The +damage proc doesn't jive well when it's in control powers that only get used once or twice per fight (Seeds of Confusion, Wormhole etc).

 

I may be wrong, but I was under the impression that +Damage (global) bonuses from enhancement sets only apply to the base damage of all damaging powers, and not the enhanced damage of (all) powers. I'm reasonably certain that and +Damage bonuses don't apply to %damage from procs.

 

If so, it wouldn't matter if you slot your powers for damage or not.

 

My apologies if you are specifically referring to the single piece of Ascendancy of the Dominator that provides Recharge/%+Damage.  IIRC the Superior version has something like a 6 PPM chance. Even with the uber recharge you are getting from the entire set (97%) if you drop it into a 90 second mez AoE you should get a semi-reliable chance for it to fire.  I have the set 6-slotted in my T6 (lvl 12) AoE Mez, and that suits me pretty well when exemplared down.

[Machariel]

1 minute ago, tidge said:

My apologies if you are specifically referring to the single piece of Ascendancy of the Dominator that provides Recharge/%+Damage. 

I am, but you raise a good point - the base 90sec recharge of something like Heart of Darkness or even the base 40 sec of Terrify is so long that you can probably slot the Ascendancy proc without its recharge component hurting the proc chances very much, if at all.  So, maybe it's fine.

[Mezmera]

1 hour ago, Machariel said:

I am, but you raise a good point - the base 90sec recharge of something like Heart of Darkness or even the base 40 sec of Terrify is so long that you can probably slot the Ascendancy proc without its recharge component hurting the proc chances very much, if at all.  So, maybe it's fine.

I slot my Terrify to 3 with the Fiery Globe set for the hp buff plus I'm slot starved.  The little bugger will only spawn one at a time anyways and with the target count of 16 and the longer-ish recharge he'll always spawn when I use the power.  I do agree the set in general could use a bit more tuning, the pet could be made a tad better.  

 

Ascendancy of the Dominator is a great set.  I slot that into my ST hold for the juicy bonuses and the AoE hold I slot the purple set with the proc plus another proc, based on the longer recharge those procs are almost all going to fire so it's a nice boost to aoe damage.   

Edited February 2, 2021 by Mezmera

[kiramon]

Doms should probably have it backwards - mez protection while off of domination and losing it while dominated, allowing you to choose between controlling better vs being controlled.

 

maybe a toggle like:

domination:

increase hold, recharge, accuracy

 

subjugation:

increase mez protection, regeneration, recovery

 

and when your domination bar is full you get the burst of both that resets after x seconds, not perma able.

 

🤪

[Mezmera]

28 minutes ago, kiramon said:

Doms should probably have it backwards - mez protection while off of domination and losing it while dominated, allowing you to choose between controlling better vs being controlled.

 

maybe a toggle like:

domination:

increase hold, recharge, accuracy

 

subjugation:

increase mez protection, regeneration, recovery

 

and when your domination bar is full you get the burst of both that resets after x seconds, not perma able.

 

🤪

no

[BrandX]

The only buff I feel Dominators need, is some tech feeling Assault sets!  Dual Pistols/Street Fighting!  And Illusion Control!  Need that too!

[Galaxy Brain]

....honestly, is there a point to the Domination bar?

 

Permadoms build it once per play session (usually) and may never pay much attention to it again. People who choose not to Permadom are not using Domination as much so the gaps between Dominations are whatever. 

 

To me, it seems that if the bar and Domination itself were decoupled it'd just be a net benefit for everyone where you don't have to hit a *specific* magic recharge for Domination to click as it'd recharge like a normal power and thus have a curve rather than a cliff. If the bar has to stay, maybe attach some passive Mez Prot/Res as the bar grows alongside an End Redux buff? As you "Dominate" the battlefield you get in the groove and are much harder to slow down.

[Haijinx]

They aren't even all that great WITH permadom.  Removing it seems pointless. 

[kiramon]

3 hours ago, Mezmera said:

no

Go away Terri bad 

[Machariel]

38 minutes ago, Galaxy Brain said:

....honestly, is there a point to the Domination bar?

 

Permadoms build it once per play session (usually) and may never pay much attention to it again. People who choose not to Permadom are not using Domination as much so the gaps between Dominations are whatever. 

 

To me, it seems that if the bar and Domination itself were decoupled it'd just be a net benefit for everyone where you don't have to hit a *specific* magic recharge for Domination to click as it'd recharge like a normal power and thus have a curve rather than a cliff. If the bar has to stay, maybe attach some passive Mez Prot/Res as the bar grows alongside an End Redux buff? As you "Dominate" the battlefield you get in the groove and are much harder to slow down.

Two part answer:

I certainly wouldn't say that I "never pay much attention to it", as a permadom with a lot of overlap on the power (recharges in ~70 sec).  This overlap allows me to better control when I get the endurance refill, so it's worth managing.  I'd imagine I'd have to pay even more attention to it if I didn't have a lot of overlap and therefore needed to be aware of when it's ending to make sure I'm not stuck in a long animation or something when the time comes.  I don't find it onerous to keep up with, but it's something that I do actively manage, and enjoy using. 

 

That said, I like the idea of decoupling some of the effects of domination from the click power and tying them to the status of the bar.  It seems that most people who don't enjoy the mechanic of permadom specifically don't like having mez protection tied to it.  So with that in mind, here's an idea:

- Domination keeps it's current effect of improving control magnitude & duration, refilling endurance, and giving mez and kb protection, but remove the "fury" requirement.   Without the fury requirement, if you don't have enough recharge for perma, it's fine - you're at least not stuck having to rebuild the bar and you can disengage with your very powerful control powers until the power recharges if you're so inclined. 

- Give Dominators some passive bonus that scales with their "fury" including mez resistance or protection.  I think it might be interesting to give them no protection but heavy resistance, so that a dominator could still be mezzed readily - or even quite a long time if it happens at the start of the fight - but that they would shrug off the effects quickly as you say.  I like an end redux buff, but I also like a ToHit buff (maybe only for control powers, if possible), representing that the character gets more focused and their controls are harder to escape.  This would be a big benefit to lower level doms as +tohit can relieve a lot of the pressure of accuracy slotting on an archetype where missing, I think, is more dangerous than any other. 

 

I think under these changes permadom would still be worth chasing but it would open up space for builds that don't slot as much recharge. 

[Mezmera]

1 hour ago, kiramon said:

Go away Terri bad 

Right back at ya!  Still waiting on you to come show me how to dom.

[Galaxy Brain]

8 hours ago, Machariel said:

I think under these changes permadom would still be worth chasing but it would open up space for builds that don't slot as much recharge. 

This here is the main thing. Removing the bar does nothing to current perma dom, but opens up anything below perma dom to scale up to that level

[cotesan]

I play doms mainly for many years....

 

doms imo have too many click/ buffs to stay competitive. Its just annoying that to stay relevant there is constant firing of buffs. I also think there should be more of an inherent buff that grows while leveling to defense. They give good damage but are incredibly weak, even with learning how unique the at is. 

[kiramon]

22 hours ago, Mezmera said:

Right back at ya!  Still waiting on you to come show me how to dom.

A year later and the ol man still not adding any value. 

[Mezmera]

1 hour ago, kiramon said:

A year later and the ol man still not adding any value. 

Yes now it's a year later and am still waiting.  For two weeks I had been waiting for you calling you to come compare and contrast your dom to mine since you give some peculiar advice.  It's too bad you never did because maybe you'd have learned not to give such a bad take earlier in this thread which I gave that big fat "no" to.  

 

From now on don't talk if you won't show, that'd be my advice.  

Edited February 3, 2021 by Mezmera

[Slithershot]

I don't see the harm in transforming domination into a "always on" fury type of situation with a dynamic buff that goes up and down with the bar. I think, conceptually, it would fit better anyway.

Aside from that, I don't think dominators have anything else that really hinders them in any way aside from their own (lack of) ability. 

 

But that's just my opinion 🙂

[Bill Z Bubba]

31 minutes ago, Pizzamurai said:

I don't see the harm in transforming domination into a "always on" fury type of situation with a dynamic buff that goes up and down with the bar. I think, conceptually, it would fit better anyway.

Aside from that, I don't think dominators have anything else that really hinders them in any way aside from their own (lack of) ability. 

 

But that's just my opinion 🙂

I won't say why, but this makes sense to me as well.

<.<

>.>

[Mezmera]

2 hours ago, Pizzamurai said:

I don't see the harm in transforming domination into a "always on" fury type of situation with a dynamic buff that goes up and down with the bar. I think, conceptually, it would fit better anyway.

Aside from that, I don't think dominators have anything else that really hinders them in any way aside from their own (lack of) ability. 

 

But that's just my opinion 🙂

What you mean like be a brute?  How about once the target is completely controlled and under 50% health we do double damage to the target.  Or maybe every so often our attacks crit for double damage, well that'd be awesome but still.  So you'd just have doms revamped into the ability of another AT?  Such variety.  

[BZRKR]

On 1/30/2021 at 11:32 PM, blue4333 said:

As the topic stated above, do you guys feel that Dominators need a buff?

No, not really.

I mean, I'd happily take some buffs, but I wouldn't want those buffs to come bundled with some kind of fundamental changes.

On 1/30/2021 at 11:32 PM, blue4333 said:

How do you guys feel about Dominators and their role?

I feel that Dominators are a quirky Rube Goldberg machine of an Archetype. They are different, and that is good. If the trinity made any difference, Dominators would be a great 4th member of a team. 

I think the only things I would like to see changed about Dominators are cosmetic: Options for the appearance of the Domination buff itself (I like it, but it may be too sparkly for some), options for the Fiery Orb appearance (Fire doesn't fit every concept).

Edited February 3, 2021 by BZRKR
words are hard

[Rejolt]

1 hour ago, BZRKR said:

No, not really.

I mean, I'd happily take some buffs, but I wouldn't want those buffs to come bundled with some kind of fundamental changes.

I feel that Dominators are a quirky Rube Goldberg machine of an Archetype. They are different, and that is good. If the trinity made any difference, Dominators would be a great 4th member of a team. 

I think the only things I would like to see changed about Dominators are cosmetic: Options for the appearance of the Domination buff itself (I like it, but it may be too sparkly for some), options for the Fiery Orb appearance (Fire doesn't fit every concept).

We need more options for ATO, VR and Winter Set bonuses and procs.

[tidge]

42 minutes ago, Rejolt said:

We need more options for ATO, VR and Winter Set bonuses and procs.

I can only support this in specific ways:

• There are a handful of sets (e.g. Fear, Taunt) that have neither PVP or Very Rare enhancement sets that could use some love.
• Some specific ATO pieces are lackluster, or only have the ability to be slotted in relative few powers (ehem, Masterminds)

Specifically for Dominators, I don't think this request scales particularly well, because (generally):

1. Dominators want Global +Recharge before all else, and (after LotG) many-piece set bonuses are key to perma-domination... so in general there aren't going to be many places to put %procs.
2. Many %procs are extra control effects... which Dominators don't really need.

Of course I am ignoring %damage procs, but again... because of the chasing of set bonuses do we really need more %damage? A pure Hold already has the option to slot seven different %procs!

[Replacement]

I'll still push for emptying bar on activation instead of expiration of domination, unless some more extreme approach is taken.  It's a flawed AT, and underplayed because it's a jumble of mismatched incentives.

 

It would however, also be nice if they had some minor version of blaster Sustains (they do get Drain Psyche, afterall, which was supposedly the impetus to give all the other Blaster sets Sustains).  Something like that, especially on the +Recovery side, would be something beneficial to non-permas while being more or less unfelt by permadom characters.

 

Dear Patrons, I hate that jagged performance curve.