And what if I wanted to skip the fighting pool...

[tidge]

9 hours ago, Aeroprism said:

I remember on live someone said Though/Weave (along with boxing) were intended to give squishies like controllers some means to do and soak damage. Maybe. That person could have been mistaken.

 

One thing is for sure: in 2021, the fighting pool has become the new fitness (mandatory) pool and it annoys me.  I'll try different stuff: allowing players to be imaginative and try stuff is what CoH does best.

I definitely will take the Fighting pool on a majority of my characters, but MOST of the time it is to get a power to use as an enhancement mule. I have a /SR (Stalker, not Scrapper) that took Kick/Tough and 47/49 just to mule the extra +Defense pieces. For most of the game's content she doesn't even have access to a damage reducer (except for the Shield Wall global). My other squishies (with neither Defenses or Resists) tend to dip into the Fighting pool earlier but i don't kid myself that they are able to soak damage!

[Hew]

1 hour ago, tidge said:

I definitely will take the Fighting pool on a majority of my characters, but MOST of the time it is to get a power to use as an enhancement mule. I have a /SR (Stalker, not Scrapper) that took Kick/Tough and 47/49 just to mule the extra +Defense pieces. For most of the game's content she doesn't even have access to a damage reducer (except for the Shield Wall global). My other squishies (with neither Defenses or Resists) tend to dip into the Fighting pool earlier but i don't kid myself that they are able to soak damage!

Procs. You get +6% def in tough, +8ish% resist all in weave, + lotg. That is a lot of juice. If you arent using set IOs, maybe it is more palatable to skip, but its a lot of durability in the pool....

[tidge]

10 minutes ago, Hew said:

Procs. You get +6% def in tough, +8ish% resist all in weave, + lotg. That is a lot of juice. If you arent using set IOs, maybe it is more palatable to skip, but its a lot of durability in the pool....

Those aren't %procs, those are Global bonuses (for the most part), and they will work:

1. without having the power (e.g. Tough) toggled on
2. down to the lowest active level of the Enhancement piece, even if you don't have access to the power (because of Exemplar)

The only *sly* enhancement (that I use semi-regularly) that can be slotted in a Defense slot is the Kismet +Accuracy; it is necessary to be slotted in a power that will be toggled on (or is always on) in order to contribute 6% to ToHit.

 

If it was not clear from my post above, by "mule" I mean that I am leveraging the Globals, but I am not necessarily using the power (via toggle) to get the Enhancement bonus(es).

Edited February 10, 2021 by tidge

[Bill Z Bubba]

1 hour ago, tidge said:

Kismet +Accuracy

Don't forget, the name still lies! It's a tohit buff.

[Shred Monkey]

On 2/6/2021 at 6:20 PM, Bill Z Bubba said:

I don't get the shadow meld usage. Does the effect hit instantly or after the 3+sec activation? And is the up worth the downtime?

 Where I see it as really useful is if you're running soft cap defense but don't have any defense debuff resistance.  You can click shadowmeld before a fight and then you have 15 seconds to kill the enemies who apply the defense debuffs... after they're gone you no longer need shadowmeld's buff and you just punch whoever's nearest.

 

 

[BrandX]

On 2/10/2021 at 6:16 AM, tidge said:

I definitely will take the Fighting pool on a majority of my characters, but MOST of the time it is to get a power to use as an enhancement mule. I have a /SR (Stalker, not Scrapper) that took Kick/Tough and 47/49 just to mule the extra +Defense pieces. For most of the game's content she doesn't even have access to a damage reducer (except for the Shield Wall global). My other squishies (with neither Defenses or Resists) tend to dip into the Fighting pool earlier but i don't kid myself that they are able to soak damage!

My Archery/Tac Blaster has about 72% S/L Resist, and it's something I notice the difference in (with the one Proc, that means it hits 75% after enough damage).

 

The softcapped Range/Energy/Negative Defense are going to make a difference too and without a heal, the resists will only go so far, but I've noticed the difference on the survival it gives.

 

 

[Sovera]

I speak from a very min maxed angle to take it with a grain of salt.

 

Scrappers are great, but they are an AT to deal damage with. That means focusing on damage. Picking a non damage boosting secondary pulls the damage back to what I call Tanker levels of damage. Talking purely in terms of pylon times (as a metric, not as a goal) if a scrapper takes 3-4 minutes to destroy them they are dealing Tanker levels of damage and not having Tanker levels of sturdiness.

 

At that point just play a Tanker instead. Can still 'scrap' but be much tankier.

 

 

This is a very fantasy destroying approach though. Like, ignore theme and flavor approach. CoH has no need to be played in such a fashion, but it's not a bad thing to be aware of this when deciding on a new alt.

 

Regarding the original question, it would be better to rely on passive protection all the time than on keeping tracks of buffs and debuffs, or even, heavens forbid, inspirations.

 

There was a time that 33% defense builds were a bit more common in these forums. 45% is a lot, so aim for 33% instead and then eat small purple inspirations to reach 45%. Most of the time the time the game is easy enough that 33% is enough and when it isn't then just eat a small purple. They can either be combined or just quickly type /ah between missions and buy new ones (in fact, buying 20-40 at a time and just /ah and pick them up between missions).

 

I tried this approach and it got old -fast-. I didn't want to keep an eye on my buffs or go oshitoshitoshit at seeing my HP dip all of a sudden, but instead of trying to force Shadowmeld to do tricks for you it's one you can try to achieve. I believe that 33% defense to Smash and Lethal is perfectly doable without Weave.

 

Something like this. It's an old unfinished build I tweaked a bit.

 

Spoiler

This Hero build was built using Mids Reborn 3.0.4.7
https://github.com/Reborn-Team/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Dark Melee
Secondary Power Set: Dark Armor
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Body Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Smite -- SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg(A), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx(3), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(3), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(5), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(5), TchofDth-Dam%(7)
Level 1: Dark Embrace -- TtnCtn-ResDam/EndRdx(A), TtnCtn-ResDam/Rchg(7), TtnCtn-ResDam(9), TtnCtn-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(9), GldArm-3defTpProc(11), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(11)
Level 2: Shadow Maul -- Arm-Dam%(A), Arm-Dmg/Rchg(13), Arm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(13), Arm-Acc/Rchg(15), Arm-Dmg/EndRdx(15), CldSns-%Dam(17)
Level 4: Death Shroud -- Mlt-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), Mlt-Dmg/EndRdx(34), Mlt-Dmg/Rchg(48), Mlt-Acc/EndRdx(50)
Level 6: Murky Cloud -- TtnCtn-ResDam/EndRdx(A), TtnCtn-ResDam/Rchg(21), TtnCtn-ResDam(21), TtnCtn-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(31)
Level 8: Siphon Life -- SprScrStr-Acc/Dmg(A), SprScrStr-Dmg/Rchg(23), SprScrStr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(23), Empty(25), SprCrtStr-Rchg/+50% Crit(25), Empty(27)
Level 10: Obsidian Shield -- TtnCtn-ResDam(A), TtnCtn-ResDam/EndRdx(36), TtnCtn-ResDam/Rchg(48), TtnCtn-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(48)
Level 12: Fly -- BlsoftheZ-ResKB(A)
Level 14: Hover -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), Rct-Def/EndRdx(29), Rct-ResDam%(29), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(31)
Level 16: Dark Regeneration -- Pnc-Heal/EndRedux(A), Pnc-Heal/Rchg(31), Pnc-EndRdx/Rchg(33), Pnc-Heal/EndRedux/Rchg(33), ThfofEss-+End%(33), Pnc-Heal(34)
Level 18: Touch of Fear -- Mlt-Acc/Dmg(A), Mlt-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(46), Mlt-Dmg/EndRdx(50), Mlt-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(50)
Level 20: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(34)
Level 22: Afterburner -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 24: Cloak of Darkness -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), Rct-Def(36), Rct-Def/EndRdx(36)
Level 26: Soul Drain -- GssSynFr--ToHit(A), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg(27), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(37), GssSynFr--Rchg/EndRdx(37), GssSynFr--ToHit/EndRdx(37), GssSynFr--Build%(39)
Level 28: Cloak of Fear -- DmpSpr-Rchg/EndRdx(A), DmpSpr-ToHitDeb/Rchg/EndRdx(45), DmpSpr-ToHitDeb/EndRdx(45), DmpSpr-ToHitDeb(46)
Level 30: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), Rct-Def(39), Rct-Def/EndRdx(39)
Level 32: Midnight Grasp -- SprScrStr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), SprScrStr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40), SprScrStr-Rchg/+Crit(40), Hct-Dam%(40), Hct-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(42), TchofDth-Dam%(42)
Level 35: Focused Accuracy -- AdjTrg-ToHit(A), AdjTrg-ToHit/Rchg(42), AdjTrg-ToHit/EndRdx/Rchg(43), AdjTrg-EndRdx/Rchg(43), AdjTrg-ToHit/EndRdx(43), AdjTrg-Rchg(45)
Level 38: Oppressive Gloom -- Acc-I(A)
Level 41: Physical Perfection -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(46)
Level 44: [Empty]
Level 47: [Empty] -- Empty(A)
Level 49: [Empty] -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(17), Mrc-Rcvry+(19)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(19)
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 50: Musculature Core Paragon
Level 50: Portal Jockey
Level 50: Task Force Commander
Level 50: The Atlas Medallion
Level 50: Freedom Phalanx Reserve
------------

 

 

 

[KC4800]

I've got a SJ/WP scrapper I am currently working on. Do I need Fighting Pool? I hate it. I have it on one Brute, and one Corruptor. It actually seems to be more useful on the corr to be honest.

 

From playing this set so far it seems as though I don't really need to care what I have resistance against, just so I out live the current grouping. Eat the holy trinity of inspirations, red, yellow, purple, and hope the RNG doesnt make me miss too many attacks in a row.

Edited February 28, 2021 by KC4800

[DocMidknight]

@KC4800 nothing is truly required, somethings make certain goals easier to attain. WP has resists and defense build into it so skipping would be easier, it just depends on your goals. If the fighting pool doesn't mesh with your plans then by all means skip it

[Saikochoro]

On 2/6/2021 at 3:20 PM, Bill Z Bubba said:

I don't get the shadow meld usage. Does the effect hit instantly or after the 3+sec activation? And is the up worth the downtime?

I mainly take it as a LOTG mule when it is in my build. I don’t use it as a primary mitigation tool, but since I do have it I put in on my tray in case of emergency. I rarely use it. 

[tidge]

16 hours ago, KC4800 said:

I've got a SJ/WP scrapper I am currently working on. Do I need Fighting Pool? I hate it. I have it on one Brute, and one Corruptor. It actually seems to be more useful on the corr to be honest.

FWIW my SJ/WP scrapper had all the power picks I really wanted by level 35. I didn't need/want much else for the concept, so for the next power choices, I went with

 

lvl 38 Tough (2xUnbreakable Guard) <- End discount bonus, plus a mule

lvl 41 Shadow Meld (LotG, IO Recharge) <- Mule

lvl 44 Weave (6xReactive Defenses) <- Nice bonuses, plus a mule

lvl 47 Assault (IO End Reduction)

lvl 49 Vengence (LotG) <- Mule

 

I'll toggle Tough and Weave for harder content, and use Shadow Meld only occasionally (see posts above). I forget I even have Vengence, but if I'm in a high-level PUG I'll try to have it ready. Assault is one of those things I will try to toggle for PUGs. I did have to take a fighting pool attack earlier in the build, but I had a gap choice at level 30.

 

I do wish that it was possible to take Cross Punch after only one prior Fighting pool pick. It seems weird to me that a Cross Punch is allowed after taking one attack then one toggle. I have a different Scrapper where I'd rather delay (or opt out of Tough) to get Cross Punch earlier.

[Aeroprism]

Ok, let's shift this around and: what if I wanted to use the ISH out of the fighting pool.  Cross Punch looks fun. Does it crit on a scrapper?  Is is it worth taking punch AND kick to squeeze the 15%x2?

 

I know I can test this all by myself, respecs are cheap, but I'm just curious to see what people think.

[Turric]

On 2/9/2021 at 10:08 PM, tellania said:

defense and resistance are the traditional means of survival, followed by heals, knock downs, and finally +hp/regen.

But many people forget fear.  

My old dark/dark brute use presence pool, to layer on the fear.   Best form of soft control (with immobs, they can fight back, holds are too expensive).

 

Fear the mobs, fear the boss.   If you want to avoid fighting pool for a dark/dark scrapper, I recommend presence pool.

 

Wont help much against an AV though, tough/weave will help more with that, but in that instance, you can pop inspirations.

 

 

 

You are not wrong about this. However, my problem with using fear is that, especially on a scrapper, you scatter mobs. My dark/dark scrapper is nearly unplayable now because everything runs from him and it's super annoying running after mobs. I had to pick up the scrapper taunt so that I can solo efficiently. Truthfully, my night widow is getting this way also. The poison effects, which I love for story purposes (seems very appropriate), makes mobs run and it drives me bonkers. It probably isn't a big deal on tankers or brutes.

[Turric]

On 3/1/2021 at 11:51 AM, tidge said:

I do wish that it was possible to take Cross Punch after only one prior Fighting pool pick. It seems weird to me that a Cross Punch is allowed after taking one attack then one toggle. I have a different Scrapper where I'd rather delay (or opt out of Tough) to get Cross Punch earlier.

 

 

I agree, though I would go one step further and remove the requirement to take Punch/Kick to get to Tough / Weave. I wish we had the ability to choose from Ancillary Powers a la carte.