Savage Melee nerf?

[Dz131]

Did Hemorrage get nerfed?  I seem to remember that it did much more dot damage from stealth...

[Apparition]

Yes.  It was a bug (DoTs shouldn't have critted), and was fixed a while ago.

[Frosticus]

Yes and then over corrected so now you need 3 stacks of blood for it to do the expected damage of a 14 second power. All in a slow dot.

Sad.

[Dz131]

Yikes

[SwitchFade]

When did this happen?

[Bopper]

35 minutes ago, SwitchFade said:

When did this happen?

Issue 27

[SwitchFade]

Just now, Bopper said:

Issue 27

Hmm, that explains why I didn't notice, I rarely break out my SM stalker. So, hemorrhage from hide does much less damage now. Good to know, I'll respect out of it.

[Bopper]

11 minutes ago, SwitchFade said:

Hmm, that explains why I didn't notice, I rarely break out my SM stalker. So, hemorrhage from hide does much less damage now. Good to know, I'll respect out of it.

This is an old version (I thought I cleaned up a newer one), but I can't seem to find where I posted it. Nonetheless, it's accurate, just disregard "Beta" it is now "Live".

 

 

It's a bit disjointed (again, old...not cleaned up). HC Hides is what I26 Stalker Hemo did when using Hemo when Hidden. It had 2 DoTs normally, a tiny one and big one. Then the crit would do another 2 DoTs, a big one and a huge one.

 

The HC Not Hide is what I26 Stalker Hemo did when using Hemo when not Hidden. There was never a Critical Hit (normally you have a 10% chance to crit). Instead you had a 100% chance at essentially an extra tick of DoT damage (it would say it's a crit in the combat log...but it really wasn't). 

The Beta Hides is now what's on I27. It not longer has the 2nd tiny DoT, and the Crit DoTs were changed into 2.6 scale upfront damage (like most DoT attacks, the Crit is an upfront sum of the DoT damage...a bit disappointing but oh well). The Beta Hides is also the same for Crits when not Hidden, it will have a 10% chance in that scenario (standard).

[Frosticus]

I think Hemo is pretty skippable. Not because it is a bad attack, but because it is a consumer of blood stacks with no real benefit for the consumption.

 

I think you are just better off plowing through spawns at full blood for the global recharge benefits toward AS and snipe.

[Vulpoid]

On 2/25/2021 at 11:41 PM, Frosticus said:

you are just better off plowing through spawns at full blood

It seems whenever I have a question lately, @Frosticus has been there and had great advice! ( My last 3 characters have been ice, poison and savage)
If you no longer promote Hemo from hide, what is your new recommended attack chain for a Savage Melee Stalker?

[KingofMonkeys]

As dissapointed in the Hemo nerf as I am, Savage still shines most with Savage Leap anyway imo, i love having a stalker with ridiculous AoE Tping in and out of groups.

Edited February 27, 2021 by KingofMonkeys

[SuperPlyx]

Reading this thread got me curious 

 

Just did this, I believe it was a with a stack of 4 blood:

 

 

I have my Hemorrhage slotted with 3 Hectacombs + 3 Damage procs. If you add all that up it is just over 700 damage. And friends 700 damage ain't nothing to sneeze at. 

 

Anyways just found it interesting

[Frosticus]

On 2/27/2021 at 5:25 AM, Vulpoid said:

It seems whenever I have a question lately, @Frosticus has been there and had great advice! ( My last 3 characters have been ice, poison and savage)
If you no longer promote Hemo from hide, what is your new recommended attack chain for a Savage Melee Stalker?

Honestly it's something I'm struggling with right now. You need another attack besides maiming, AS and snipe if you want to run seamless chains. One could argue that stalkers rarely get to due to runners and such, but it is still probably important to be able to do. In most content those 3 atttacks, rending flurry and leap will be all you use in addition to always recharged buildup.

 

You might want savage strike as a filler. At least it can add to assassin's focus, which savage melee really struggles to build ime.

On 2/27/2021 at 2:19 PM, KingofMonkeys said:

As dissapointed in the Hemo nerf as I am, Savage still shines most with Savage Leap anyway imo, i love having a stalker with ridiculous AoE Tping in and out of groups.

100%. Savage leap is reason enough to play savage. People singing the praises of combat teleport should give savage a try.

On 2/27/2021 at 2:51 PM, SuperPlyx said:

Reading this thread got me curious 

 

Just did this, I believe it was a with a stack of 4 blood:

I have my Hemorrhage slotted with 3 Hectacombs + 3 Damage procs. If you add all that up it is just over 700 damage. And friends 700 damage ain't nothing to sneeze at. 

 

Anyways just found it interesting

Definitely. It is a 14 sec attack so it will hit pretty hard and roll procs well. The issue is does it hit hard enough to justify draining your blood stacks and to warrant being a 5-6 second dot (one of the slowest available to melee sets. Maybe the slowest?). Compare it to incinerate (not available to stalkers of course) which most people dislike as well. Hemo is a slower dot and just barely does more damage despite recharging 4 seconds slower.  All while being a consumer. 

 

Something isn't right with Hemo. I don't think anyone is gimping themselves to take it, but it really should be better.

[jojogladco]

 

On 2/25/2021 at 8:18 PM, Bopper said:

This is an old version (I thought I cleaned up a newer one), but I can't seem to find where I posted it. Nonetheless, it's accurate, just disregard "Beta" it is now "Live".

 

 

It's a bit disjointed (again, old...not cleaned up). HC Hides is what I26 Stalker Hemo did when using Hemo when Hidden. It had 2 DoTs normally, a tiny one and big one. Then the crit would do another 2 DoTs, a big one and a huge one.

 

The HC Not Hide is what I26 Stalker Hemo did when using Hemo when not Hidden. There was never a Critical Hit (normally you have a 10% chance to crit). Instead you had a 100% chance at essentially an extra tick of DoT damage (it would say it's a crit in the combat log...but it really wasn't). 

The Beta Hides is now what's on I27. It not longer has the 2nd tiny DoT, and the Crit DoTs were changed into 2.6 scale upfront damage (like most DoT attacks, the Crit is an upfront sum of the DoT damage...a bit disappointing but oh well). The Beta Hides is also the same for Crits when not Hidden, it will have a 10% chance in that scenario (standard).

@Bopper Could you confirm the numbers in the chart for Live please? It doesn't seem to line up with City of Data. Unless I'm reading CoD wrong, which is 100% possible. 

 

I'm reading CoD as saying that at less than 5 stacks the power will do Scale 0.76+ 4 ticks of Scale 0.326*(1+(.04*number of Stacks) so at 0 Stacks  Scale 0.76+ a Dot of 1.304 for a total of 2.064 which is much lower than the 0.76+1.63= Scale 2.39 you've got in the chart.  Am I looking at this wrongly at some point along the line?

 

 

[Bopper]

36 minutes ago, jojogladco said:

 

@Bopper Could you confirm the numbers in the chart for Live please? It doesn't seem to line up with City of Data. Unless I'm reading CoD wrong, which is 100% possible. 

 

I'm reading CoD as saying that at less than 5 stacks the power will do Scale 0.76+ 4 ticks of Scale 0.326*(1+(.04*number of Stacks) so at 0 Stacks  Scale 0.76+ a Dot of 1.304 for a total of 2.064 which is much lower than the 0.76+1.63= Scale 2.39 you've got in the chart.  Am I looking at this wrongly at some point along the line?

 

 

It should be 5 ticks, not 4 ticks. But if I'm wrong, let me know. It is my understanding that you always have 5 ticks, unless you have max blood stacks, in which case it becomes 6 ticks.

 

When you see duration of 4.1s, remember first tick is at 0s. So 0, 1, 2, 3, 4.

 

But I forget how it works with delays. So if the game shows otherwise, let me know

Edited March 2, 2021 by Bopper

[jojogladco]

2 minutes ago, Bopper said:

It should be 5 ticks, not 4 ticks. But if I'm wrong, let me know. It is my understanding that you always have 5 ticks, unless you have max blood stacks, in which case it becomes 6 ticks.

 

When you see duration of 4.1s, remember first tick is at 0s. So 0, 1, 2, 3, 4.

 

But I forget how it works with delays. So if the game shows otherwise, let me know

Thank you! I fired up a character and confirmed in game.  I bolded the part I was interpreting wrong. For some reason I had it in my head that it was a 4.1 second window of ticks with the timer starting at 0, but ticks not starting until after the Animation Time Before Effect had elapsed at .767 seconds. 

 

 

 

 

[Lockpick]

On 2/25/2021 at 11:41 PM, Frosticus said:

I think Hemo is pretty skippable. Not because it is a bad attack, but because it is a consumer of blood stacks with no real benefit for the consumption.

 

I think you are just better off plowing through spawns at full blood for the global recharge benefits toward AS and snipe.

 

Sorry to revise an old thread, but I was playing my Savage / SD and was feeling that Hemorrhage was not working as I expected.  I have a Savage / SR that I had leveled to 50 / incarnates and felt that Hemorrhage hit like a truck with that character, but was not strong at all comparatively on the new character.  I checked the boards and found this thread on the nerf.  Pretty disappointing...

 

Anyway, I respecced out of Hemorrhage and got Savage Strike with the idea of just running a single target chain of SS - MS - AS and using the AoEs as needed.  This burns endurance pretty quickly.  I'm curious about the blood frenzy and endurance / recharge mechanic.  Does the percentages of endurance / recharge stay static as long as you have blood frenzy or does it adjust based on the stacks?

 

Bummed out about this Hemorrhage nerf...