Trapdoor Test Results - the other half of Pylon testing?

[Voltak]

 Last test I only had 3 incarnates and the three were only at T3. Changed enhancements on Roots as well, and the hold.

If my SEARCH FU is strong, the two top controllers are the Fire/Storm and my Plant/Storm, basically the same time, just one second difference. 

5:51
 

 

Edited July 20, 2022 by Voltak

[Sovera]

Elec/Bio Sentinel. Full T4, no clickies used, 100% ranged build:

 

7:28

7:52

 

Almost no need for heals and no inspirations used despite using a 33% defense build. Runners gonna run though, and tunnels are not great to alpha strike effectively, but still not a great show. About the same time than the new Sonic though, even with it having three cones and a nuke instead of just Ball Lightning and a nuke.

[Squidstorm]

Does anyone have the DB/Bio build that was used in the initial post?

[Ston]

Wanted to do a couple trapdoor tests with a couple top-tier scrapper combos. 

 

WM/RAD Scrapper - 4:33

* this thing is super satisfying to use but it was decently slower than my claws/rad. it's pretty limited by the range/arc of crowd control, but this thing would shred on a full team where positioning isn't as important

 

EM/BIO Scrapper - 4:17

* pretty easy to get fast time with EM when bosses are going down in 3 hits. might get close to <4min if I went with Mu Mastery, but I just like Fire Ball.

 

[Ratch_]

20 hours ago, Ston said:

EM/BIO Scrapper - 4:17

* pretty easy to get fast time with EM when bosses are going down in 3 hits. might get close to <4min if I went with Mu Mastery, but I just like Fire Ball.

 

Fire Ball really does feel so much more satisfying than ball lightning not gonna lie.

[Ston]

FA/SS Tanker - 3:50

Tankers... perfectly balanced. 

 

 

[Bill Z Bubba]

51 minutes ago, Ston said:

Tankers... perfectly balanced. 

 

My sarcasm meter redlined.

[SomeGuy]

2 hours ago, Ston said:

FA/SS Tanker - 3:50

Tankers... perfectly balanced. 

 

 

 

They didn't get overbuffed at all. Nope. Not an iota.

 

*this is sarcasm since some people simply refuse to get it.

Edited August 5, 2022 by SomeGuy

[Bill Z Bubba]

2 minutes ago, SomeGuy said:

*this is sarcasm since some people simply refuse to get it.

 

There are those that understand math...

[Sovera]

... are we doing this each time someone posts a Super Strength build? Because running around with 160% damage does not make whatever AT it is played with uber, nope nope, only Tankers.

[SomeGuy]

2 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

There are those that understand math...

 

 

And then there are those that still think regen is good.

[Ston]

1 hour ago, Sovera said:

... are we doing this each time someone posts a Super Strength build? Because running around with 160% damage does not make whatever AT it is played with uber, nope nope, only Tankers.

 

i got 4:06 with a fire/sav tanker too. tankers simply are able to output too much damage with their increased radius & target caps. 

[Sovera]

6 hours ago, Ston said:

 

i got 4:06 with a fire/sav tanker too. tankers simply are able to output too much damage with their increased radius & target caps. 

 

Post me that build, would you? My best Tanker time has been steady 6 minutes over several Fire Armor combinations.

[Bill Z Bubba]

13 hours ago, Sovera said:

... are we doing this each time someone posts a Super Strength build? Because running around with 160% damage does not make whatever AT it is played with uber, nope nope, only Tankers.

 

We're doing it until those idiotic tank buffs get reverted.

[Sovera]

1 hour ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

We're doing it until those idiotic tank buffs get reverted.

 

Science forbid the buffs have narrowed the gap while the other classes are still comfortably ahead in all Trapdoor and Pylon tests. Or are we using SS and Radiation Armor as the reason Tanks are uber damage? Nerf the whole AT because of two sets?

[Bill Z Bubba]

5 minutes ago, Sovera said:

Science forbid the buffs have narrowed the gap while the other classes are still comfortably ahead in all Trapdoor and Pylon tests. Or are we using SS and Radiation Armor as the reason Tanks are uber damage? Nerf the whole AT because of two sets?

 

No, Sovera, remove the ridiculously unnecessary buffs that were recently added because tank damage output is now ridiculous when compared to the mitigation they provide.

[Ston]

8 hours ago, Sovera said:

 

Post me that build, would you? My best Tanker time has been steady 6 minutes over several Fire Armor combinations.

 

I’ll post it when I’m back on later today. But it’s a proc build, lots of procs.

 

And I’m with @Bill Z Bubba on this one. I’ve been able to get Brutes into the 4:30ish area, but I think only tankers are getting <4:00 reliably.

 

To be fair I haven’t tried an SS/FA Brute yet, but I’d imagine it wouldn’t survive if I slot it the same as the tanker. Tanker is basically all offense.

[Bill Z Bubba]

2 hours ago, Ston said:

To be fair I haven’t tried an SS/FA Brute yet, but I’d imagine it wouldn’t survive if I slot it the same as the tanker. Tanker is basically all offense.

 

But you shouldn't slot the same, right? Supposedly brute fury will carry it even if you have to neglect offensive slotting to get the mitigation side up to par. Or so the story goes.

[SomeGuy]

4 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

No, Sovera, remove the ridiculously unnecessary buffs that were recently added because tank damage output is now ridiculous when compared to the mitigation they provide.

 

They wanted to make Brutes irrelevant. This isn't going to go back.

[Gobbledigook]

6 hours ago, Ston said:

 

I’ll post it when I’m back on later today. But it’s a proc build, lots of procs.

 

And I’m with @Bill Z Bubba on this one. I’ve been able to get Brutes into the 4:30ish area, but I think only tankers are getting <4:00 reliably.

 

To be fair I haven’t tried an SS/FA Brute yet, but I’d imagine it wouldn’t survive if I slot it the same as the tanker. Tanker is basically all offense.

My SS/Bio Brute clears trash just as fast as my Bio/SS Tanker. Probably faster. But the Brute takes out Bosses much faster also. I have not done a run with a Brute but i don't see why it should not be similar or faster times at least.

 

Slot the Brute for offence also and just take them out before they take you out.

 

If the procs are making the difference then maybe adjust the values of the proc based on the AT slotting them. A Tanker would get a lower damage proc than a Brute for example.

 

Perhaps it would be better to do this test without procs altogether.

Edited August 6, 2022 by Gobbledegook

[Ston]

So I ended up trying a run with an SS/FA Brute and was able to get 3:55 with a defensive amplifier. I died several times and I think this is the main concern with tankers. I didn't even come close to dying on the tanker version, the ATO in Blazing Aura kept my resists very high most of the run. 

 

Damage seemed to be about the same between the two ATs with very similar builds. The Brute either needs outside buffs, less proc slotting, or to slow down in order to regain HP.

 

@Sovera Here's the build I was using for the tanker (couldn't find the fire/sav one but this one is pretty similar):

 

This Hero build was built using Mids Reborn 3.2.17
https://github.com/LoadedCamel/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

 

And the Brute version:

 

This Villain build was built using Mids Reborn 3.2.17
https://github.com/LoadedCamel/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

[Gobbledigook]

10 hours ago, Ston said:

So I ended up trying a run with an SS/FA Brute and was able to get 3:55 with a defensive amplifier. I died several times and I think this is the main concern with tankers. I didn't even come close to dying on the tanker version, the ATO in Blazing Aura kept my resists very high most of the run. 

 

Damage seemed to be about the same between the two ATs with very similar builds. The Brute either needs outside buffs, less proc slotting, or to slow down in order to regain HP.

 

@Sovera Here's the build I was using for the tanker (couldn't find the fire/sav one but this one is pretty similar):

 

This Hero build was built using Mids Reborn 3.2.17
https://github.com/LoadedCamel/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

 

And the Brute version:

 

This Villain build was built using Mids Reborn 3.2.17
https://github.com/LoadedCamel/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

 

A Tanker is going to survive better by design which does allow some aggressive slotting. A Brute is less survivable but really benefits from Team buffs which can give them very close Tanker survival whilst doing more damage.

 

The extra AoE size of Tankers can help with clearing trash though as the Brute may miss a few. A Brute does have better damage though, especially solo. Hard targets rather than trash will show the Brute clearly pull ahead.

 

Survival is key to soloing whether that be big dps, cc or mitigation. Tankers are just very well equipped for it.

 

The Tanker ATO MotT proc is probably giving the Tankers the edge which could do with some adjustment really. The Brutes is rubbish lol. Bring the Tanker ATO proc down and give the Brute a better proc and that could make a big difference.

 

 

 

 

Edited August 7, 2022 by Gobbledegook

[Bill Z Bubba]

4 hours ago, Gobbledegook said:

The Tanker ATO MotT proc is probably giving the Tankers the edge which could do with some adjustment really. The Brutes is rubbish lol. Bring the Tanker ATO proc down and give the Brute a better proc and that could make a big difference.

 

Agreed.

 

Edit: Scrapper ATO: passive +crit chance buff and change for major +crit chance = MOAR DAMUGE

Tank ATO: Chance for +absorb and chance for 3 stacks of resistance = MOAR MITIGATION

Brute ATO: Tiny bit of regen/endurance gain with a tiny bit of fury = pathetic

Stalker ATO: omgwtfbbq!

Edited August 7, 2022 by Bill Z Bubba

[Ringo]

I would be curious where the Brute/Tank comparison would land with completely identical builds (ie no ATOs) just to see how much it changes things

[DarknessEternal]

On 8/6/2022 at 8:24 AM, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

We're doing it until those idiotic tank buffs get reverted.

Have you considered just slotting all of your guys with SOs only, and never grouping?

 

Wouldn't that provide you with the challenge you claim to want but never actually do?