Focused Feedback: Power Changes (Release Candidates)

[Wavicle]

7 hours ago, csr said:

I'm pretty sure CPH only looked at powers with 3+ second cast times.  The power colloquially known as "Orbiting Debt" only has a 2.03s cast.  What hurts with OD is that it's the longest cast in a sequence to re-toggle that takes a total of about 7 seconds just for the 6 WS toggles.  As a temporary buff for Khelds, changing all their toggles to cast very quickly would certainly help.

Well the damage resistance toggles do activate very quickly. However I think the design of Kheldians is currently basically that they don’t have to use those toggles once they have their level 38 power. So in theory a high-level warshade should only be activating shadow cloak, orbiting death, and inky aspect. It still feels like a lot though.

[ZekeStenzland]

Looked at the movement changes to Shinobi-Iri and Kuji-In Rin, through the lens of my L37 Sentinel. I was worried that shifting the movement buff from the always on toggle Shinobi to the sometimes on (typically autocast) click Kuji would be really jarring as the movement buff goes on or off. Fortunately(?) the new version movement buff is so tiny that it's hard to tell if you even have it on or not, so it's not jarring at all.

 

I guess it's a mediocre perk if you already have a travel power, but it definitely is no longer effective (in conjunction with ninja run) as a travel power.

 

Edited April 18, 2021 by ZekeStenzland

[PhantomoftheFPS]

I just spent a ton of time on test, some of these changes are so slick! I love almost all of the new travel power stuff - running through mobs is about to be my lifes mission.

 

Singularity changes are icky to me because kb is gross (imo) and I'm not interested in a pet I can't control throwing stuff everywhere when gravity is one of like...only two sets that doesn't have kb res in their immobilize. B i g - y i k e s.

 

[Zepp]

4 hours ago, PhantomoftheFPS said:

I just spent a ton of time on test, some of these changes are so slick! I love almost all of the new travel power stuff - running through mobs is about to be my lifes mission.

 

Singularity changes are icky to me because kb is gross (imo) and I'm not interested in a pet I can't control throwing stuff everywhere when gravity is one of like...only two sets that doesn't have kb res in their immobilize. B i g - y i k e s.

 

It would be nice if the KB was vectored towards Singy like the "repel" effect.

[Wavicle]

4 hours ago, PhantomoftheFPS said:

I just spent a ton of time on test, some of these changes are so slick! I love almost all of the new travel power stuff - running through mobs is about to be my lifes mission.

 

Singularity changes are icky to me because kb is gross (imo) and I'm not interested in a pet I can't control throwing stuff everywhere when gravity is one of like...only two sets that doesn't have kb res in their immobilize. B i g - y i k e s.

 

Kb>Kd slotted in Singularity should make it pretty useful. Gather up mobs and knock them over.

[Carnifax]

1 hour ago, Wavicle said:

Kb>Kd slotted in Singularity should make it pretty useful. Gather up mobs and knock them over.

Issue is that can cost you a set bonus (Ranged def). 

 

If that's the expect behaviour for this change then the KD should be wired into Singy, which seems slightly wrong. 

[arcane]

6 hours ago, Carnifax said:

Issue is that can cost you a set bonus (Ranged def). 

 

If that's the expect behaviour for this change then the KD should be wired into Singy, which seems slightly wrong. 

A single set bonus is a perfectly reasonable cost for turning a power into a KD patch IMO. Sure it will disrupt a few existing builds, but that’s just... tough.

[Carnifax]

38 minutes ago, arcane said:

A single set bonus is a perfectly reasonable cost for turning a power into a KD patch IMO. Sure it will disrupt a few existing builds, but that’s just... tough.

That's not my point though.

 

The point is for those of us who don't want that Singy has been turned into more of a knockback machine thanks to his new -repel

[arcane]

17 minutes ago, Carnifax said:

That's not my point though.

 

The point is for those of us who don't want that Singy has been turned into more of a knockback machine thanks to his new -repel

Perfectly fair to not like the -repel effect for this reason. Just saying it’s completely within your power to turn your problem with the new Singy into a massive boon at a relatively small cost. I am willing to pay that cost for that buff, so I like the change where you do not.

[Blackbird71]

58 minutes ago, arcane said:

A single set bonus is a perfectly reasonable cost for turning a power into a KD patch IMO. Sure it will disrupt a few existing builds, but that’s just... tough.

Wholeheartedly disagree.  My experience has been that most often KB->KD enhancements are slotted to keep KB powers from becoming an annoyance to other players on a team.  In isolation, If the choice comes down to slotting to save someone else an inconvenience, or getting a build-critical set bonus like soft-capping a defense, there is no question in my mind.  But too often people are pressured into slotting these IOs because otherwise they'll get grief from team members.  So no, giving up the 6th-slot set bonus is not a "perfectly reasonable cost for turning a power into a KD."

[arcane]

4 minutes ago, Blackbird71 said:

Wholeheartedly disagree.  My experience has been that most often KB->KD enhancements are slotted to keep KB powers from becoming an annoyance to other players on a team.  In isolation, If the choice comes down to slotting to save someone else an inconvenience, or getting a build-critical set bonus like soft-capping a defense, there is no question in my mind.  But too often people are pressured into slotting these IOs because otherwise they'll get grief from team members.  So no, giving up the 6th-slot set bonus is not a "perfectly reasonable cost for turning a power into a KD."

KD is a superior effect to KB outside of very tactical circumstances. You receive a strong buff from converting KB to KD in many different dimensions whether you like it or not (AoE DPS, ability to keep mobs in CC patches including powers like Bonfire). You may not want the mileage out of that IO for some private reason, but it is nonsensical to claim you get nothing for it besides happier teammates.

Edited April 19, 2021 by arcane

[UberGuy]

24 minutes ago, Blackbird71 said:

Wholeheartedly disagree.  My experience has been that most often KB->KD enhancements are slotted to keep KB powers from becoming an annoyance to other players on a team. 

 

Definitely not my experience. Many a poster complains about KB for the effects on their own efficiency. KB can be a powerful tool for controlling mob placement and providing mitigation, but using AoE this way is not "free", especially AoE KB and especially in open areas where there are no walls or other barriers to "catch" knocked foes. (If you can fly, you can use the ground for this.) But absent careful positioning, which does take time, KB will scatter foes who might otherwise stay clumped for repeat AoE application. Especially when they were immobilized or slowed by an effect that doesn't include KB reduction.

 

This is, indeed, the same thing posters often complain about when their teammates scatter foes, but the same logic applies to ones own powers.

Edited April 19, 2021 by UberGuy

[Carnifax]

24 minutes ago, arcane said:

Perfectly fair to not like the -repel effect for this reason. Just saying it’s completely within your power to turn your problem with the new Singy into a massive boon at a relatively small cost. I am willing to pay that cost for that buff, so I like the change where you do not.

Yep, and I've said it from the off. 

 

Really cool effect; put into the wrong place. I'd have waited for a new Set (like Water Control) and plonked into a Placeable Patch in that set instead (call it Maelstrom or something, slow & -repel patch). 

[Carnifax]

1 minute ago, UberGuy said:

Especially when they were immobilized or slowed by an effect that doesn't include KB reduction.

Like say a Glue Arrow or Gravs immob.....

 

😞

[arcane]

Anyway, thanks for the reminder that my grav/traps has a problem and has to change a slot now. But my Grav/Sonic with Sorcery and Teleport Target is already built for optimal usage of these changes 🙂 reverse repel singy with four ally toggles that I can drop mid-mob at will! (Makes use of singy change, changes to all 5 sorcery powers, and teleport target interrupt change all in one little gimmick character)

Edited April 19, 2021 by arcane

[PhantomoftheFPS]

Kb to kd would not work though right since the sing is using repel? The same way kb to kd doesn't work in hurricane? Or am i not remembering correctly?

[arcane]

Just now, PhantomoftheFPS said:

Kb to kd would not work though right since the sing is using repel? The same way kb to kd doesn't work in hurricane? Or am i not remembering correctly?

Repel as in the Kinetics power which ironically does not use the repel effect.

[PhantomoftheFPS]

11 minutes ago, arcane said:

Repel as in the Kinetics power which ironically does not use the repel effect.

 

I just tested it - that makes life easier. 

[arcane]

I think there need to be some very modest bumps in the values of Rock/Brimstone/Crystal

Armors. I’ve built up something for a Granite-less Stone tanker, and it may be work fine, but it’s very obvious if you compare apples to apples that the values on these powers are a hair too low. If you look at Invuln/Rad/Elec and then you look at Brimstone, there’s no reason it shouldn’t at least get 30% res on a tanker instead of 25%. Likewise if you look at Ice/EA/SR then look at Rock/Crystal, it’s clear you’re being shorted a couple of percentage points on Stone. I’m not saying they need huge buffs, just a slight upward tweak.

[Wavicle]

1 minute ago, arcane said:

I think there need to be some very modest bumps in the values of Rock/Brimstone/Crystal

Armors. I’ve built up something for a Granite-less Stone tanker, and it may be work fine, but it’s very obvious if you compare apples to apples that the values on these powers are a hair too low. If you look at Invuln/Rad/Elec and then you look at Brimstone, there’s no reason it shouldn’t at least get 30% res on a tanker instead of 25%. Likewise if you look at Ice/EA/SR then look at Rock/Crystal, it’s clear you’re being shorted a couple of percentage points on Stone. I’m not saying they need huge buffs, just a slight upward tweak.

You can’t ignore that granite exists. The changes are not intended to mean you just don’t need granite anymore, afaik.

[arcane]

15 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

You can’t ignore that granite exists. The changes are not intended to mean you just don’t need granite anymore, afaik.

Well, presumably they mean for you to have the option to not run Granite some of the time or else the change is meaningless. But presumably you mean the two modes are still intended to compliment one another. In which case, they would need to look at toggle suppression as opposed to toggle dropping at the very least to make that a viable concept. That being said, I don’t believe any power should be considered mandatory in any set even if things like mez protection toggles are treated as mandatory by the player base. I think the powers that are directly comparable with no differing bells and whistles should be balanced as such - IE Brimstone Armor vs Temp Invulnerability. Two armor toggles with two resistance types with no other noticeable distinction (unless Brimstone has a lower end cost in which case forgive me I’m not at my computer).

[Jimmy]

The Granite / Rooted changes aren't meant to be a big shift for the set, just a necessary byproduct of removing the mutual exclusivity of travel powers (they used to rely on the same functionality, but as that was removed we had to change the way Granite and Rooted worked).

[arcane]

14 minutes ago, Jimmy said:

The Granite / Rooted changes aren't meant to be a big shift for the set, just a necessary byproduct of removing the mutual exclusivity of travel powers (they used to rely on the same functionality, but as that was removed we had to change the way Granite and Rooted worked).

Appreciate the clarification. But it was certainly also a much welcomed change for people who wanted to play an Earth based armor without committing to neutered offense/mobility and I’m sure you recognize the significance of the change from that angle too 😉

[Blackbird71]

2 hours ago, UberGuy said:

 

Definitely not my experience. Many a poster complains about KB for the effects on their own efficiency. KB can be a powerful tool for controlling mob placement and providing mitigation, but using AoE this way is not "free", especially AoE KB and especially in open areas where there are no walls or other barriers to "catch" knocked foes. (If you can fly, you can use the ground for this.) But absent careful positioning, which does take time, KB will scatter foes who might otherwise stay clumped for repeat AoE application. Especially when they were immobilized or slowed by an effect that doesn't include KB reduction.

 

This is, indeed, the same thing posters often complain about when their teammates scatter foes, but the same logic applies to ones own powers.

 

It's safe to say that different people will have different experiences; I merely related my own.

I think it's also safe to say that stating subjective experience as objective fact does not help a conversation.  Just a general observation.

[UberGuy]

1 hour ago, Blackbird71 said:

 

It's safe to say that different people will have different experiences; I merely related my own.

I think it's also safe to say that stating subjective experience as objective fact does not help a conversation.  Just a general observation.

 

I wasn't aware I stated my experience as a fact. I clearly labeled it as "Definitely not my experience", which should make it clear that, well, I'm talking about my experience. Which I did in response to you originally saying "My experience has been that...".

 

So not sure why you responded in this way, unless you are perhaps suggesting you should not have posted your own subjective viewpoint to begin with. 🤷‍♂️