Croax's Tier List and Build Collection

[Without_Pause]

The issue is cast time.

[Glacier Peak]

18 minutes ago, Without_Pause said:

The issue is cast time.

Why does cast time matter if used as an opener and the targets aren't notified and it doesn't break hide? 

[Without_Pause]

9 hours ago, Glacier Peak said:

Why does cast time matter if used as an opener and the targets aren't notified and it doesn't break hide? 

It matters if you are on a team. It also matters that it is a ST attack which again, can be an issue on a team. You are also talking to someone who doesn't think 3 second animations should exist in the game and sub 2 second ones, see Kat, should be the ideal. 2.244 arcanetime in a ST Confuse isn't that great when Ice Patch can be done in 1.567.

 

To clarify, the ST nature of the Boggle tag is the issue. The Confuse part is fine. The greater problem is how poorly Insight is done so they hamstrung in Boggle with it so now two aspects of Psionic are underwhelming. Boggle is a slow animating pseudo BU with a ST Confuse aspect and it's a T7. Yay?

Edited January 12, 2022 by Without_Pause

[Croax]

Boggle, Placate and most of the debuff auras are a niche thing that is only usefull in Solo situations. It simply is not my cup of tea. Also the builds that i posted have all skiped the powers that are skippable. Boggle is defitly skipable. Like Placate you are free to pick it and use it, but it is not a improvement overall. It can be a strong 'mids build enabler' because i like the purple confuse set. But the only time i could include it meaningfull was a plants controller. 

[Meknomancer]

I run an ice/stone/levi and i was looking at your builds (not sure if its been pointed out already) and you have 6 bonuses giving 10% recharge in your ice/stone/mu. Haven't looked over the other stone armr builds you posted yet but it may be worth a peek. And if you dump the apoc set in zapp for 5 winters bite you'll be hitting around 45% e/ne defence which i assume is what you aimed for.

[Croax]

Hi @Meknomancer,

 

in that build i have the apo proc and 5 pcs of manti in zapp. I think you have missed it. I try to avoid using too many set bonuses by going to mids "Window -> Sets & Bonuses" If you have more than 5 pcs of set bonuses they will be highlighted in red.

 

Ice Melee has a little bit of a problem running a solid single target chain. On my Ice/Ice that i really liked i played

FT -> Frost -> Ice Sword -> Assassin Strike -> repeat!

It is a cool single target attack chain, especially when fightin a few enemys at once. But i figured out that you can use a snipe instead of Frost since it is a better single target attack. That is why i have used a high damage enhancement combo in zapp. You can use 6pcs winter in there and also 6 pcs superiour frozen blast in either Frost or Ball Lightning to get to the soft caps. On some builds i did that and on some builds i choose to do something else. Stone Armor is very flexible, despite the fact that it needs all powers and also a lot of slots.

[Meknomancer]

Your right my mistake 🙂 i get so used to throwing in the full apoc set i didn't notice the manti pieces thanks for pointing that out. Mu is the best i ended up going levi for theme and i had to throw in the 5 winters bite pieces for the en/ne defence. Also finding intuition is nice for the hold/range/slows and makes a change from musculature and i ended up dumping ice patch and geode for assault and tactics on build 1 after getting blinded on a few sf's and realising ice patch wasn't helping on those fast moving teams. Still can't get my mids to update so i really appreciate it when players post more than just the data chunk for me to look at. Thanks for updating your stalker list to include stone it helped me loads i was getting squished repeatedly and gave up on it for a while.

[tidge]

On 12/15/2021 at 12:03 AM, DarknessEternal said:

Why take snipes?  They don't build Assassin's Focus.

 

I'll add a few thoughts on why my Stalkers (and Scrappers) take Snipes, to add to what others have written:

• My Stalkers have the Kismet piece in Hide, so that is extra damage on the (Fast) Snipes when Hide is toggled on. The maximum extra damage from a Fast Snipe is at +22% ToHit, which Stalkers/Scrappers can get from their Build Up powers too.
• I like having the ranged attack, and the cast time of a (Fast) Snipe is reasonable. Often it is for runners (I dislike the range nerf), but just as common use is when I have a target just out of melee range (let's say a softer ally is being griefed).
• For Stalkers/Scrappers, I like to slot (high-level) Sting of the Manticore as a 5-piece set bonus (MOAR +Recharge)... this set also improves Interrupt Time. Other enhancement sets offer decent options as well, but I like the synergy between SotM (IIRC lvl 35-50) and the Patron Snipes (at lvl 32). For AT that get Snipes earlier, I usually pick a different set of enhancements.
• It is a gateway power to other Epic powers. I favor Soul for Shadow Meld (MOAR LotG), but I see other flavorful options with utility as well. I don't want to oversell Shadow Meld, it is a mule for my builds. When I use it I am either hoping to mess up Streakbreaker for enemies or for extra defense when trying to quick-click glowies while a spawn throws everything it has at me.

[Linea]

Snipes are very good damage, and great for supplementing a weaker ST damage chain.   Which obviously varies from build to build, some will need it more while others not at all.

 

I use Shadowmeld more depending on the situation.  When up to my eyeballs in Incarnated Psionics or worse (801/ASF) I'll use Energy Drain double or triple stacked for ~+10-15 defense, Energize for the EndRdx, and Shadowmeld.  That's ~+35 ish defense, and mostly applies to Psionics as well, If I back that with Rune or Hybrid, what was my weakness is now much more manageable, at least for long enough to take out a boss and start dropping the incoming damage down to more long term survivable levels.  The same for any other minor weaknesses or debuffs.

[DarknessEternal]

Why have you raised defenses to 60 in your energy armor builds?

[Croax]

56 minutes ago, DarknessEternal said:

Why have you raised defenses to 60 in your energy armor builds?

The build goal for the EA was as i remember having 45% defense on negative with a saturated Energy Drain. Then recharge and sometimes 75% s/l resists depending on the primary. You should check the active buffs and incarnates. maybe i had sometimes choosen barrier over ageless, but i should have allways ageless normaly. But i can just say try to check the buffs and active powers maybe something is odd there. Beeing something over the 45% is not that bad either because of cascading defense debuffs, so beeing fiftyish should be enough normaly.

[Linea]

59 is the standard incarnate soft-cap, 65 for some of the praetorian incarnates.  If a build is capable of it, I build for that when possible.

[aethereal]

On 1/13/2022 at 7:30 AM, tidge said:

 

• For Stalkers/Scrappers, I like to slot (high-level) Sting of the Manticore as a 5-piece set bonus (MOAR +Recharge)... this set also improves Interrupt Time. Other enhancement sets offer decent options as well, but I like the synergy between SotM (IIRC lvl 35-50) and the Patron Snipes (at lvl 32). For AT that get Snipes earlier, I usually pick a different set of enhancements.

 

Note that interrupt time reduction doesn't actually reduce the amount of time you wait before the attack fires, it just reduces how much of the time is actually interruptible (the rest becomes time where if you are hit, it does not disrupt your attack).  To me, this makes interrupt time pretty useless on modern snipes.  You don't have any interrupt time in combat.  Out of combat, you don't reduce total time necessary to use the snipe, and 99% of the time, you're out of combat, so nobody's interrupting you anyway.

[Without_Pause]

Essentially a copy/paste from notes I have on a Claws/ea Scrapper. Posting here because I have a StJ/ea Stalker and at the time I just copied Croax's build. Having played around with both having some Incarnates filled in, the below is my leaning for EA.

 

Alpha: Musculature Core. Maybe Cardiac if you want to avoid using ED, but I would just rather have things dead.

 

Destiny: Ageless Radial. For two reasons. Def debuffs are absolutely a thing which can screw over this build. I did a mission at +2/x8 and sometimes I wondered if I had any Def debuff resistance. Once Ageless was added in, things got more sane. I still really like EA, but the lack of Def debuff resistance is telling. Just try low level soloing x8 mobs. I did that in a level 14 Flashback. Never again. x8 against mobs without Def debuffs has been fine so x8 isn't the issue. Note, low level x8 once the build is done. The added end makes using ED less often. ED has a longer animation so that also means less time killing. The added Recharge is more "nice to have" than required. Barrier and Rebirth are talking points, but Ageless seems to cover more for what I want.

 

Hybrid: Melee Core. Regen, added Resistance which is a bigger benefit than 1.5% Def since that can be soft capped, and resistance to annoying status effects which prop up in end game plays. Assault was absolutely in play, but the more I looked into things, I switched.

 

Interface: Degenerative, I know there are others, and it can be deemed pointless on a team if someone else has it as well. I can see having a second option for teams which might more likely be useful.

 

Judgement: Ionic or Void. For sheer damage or the added debuff. I tend to go "for that character."

 

Lore: Whatever. I tend to use what looks correct for that character versus min/max reasons. I would look for +dmg, heal, -resist, -regen and go from there. I prefer Radial to keep the support around. 

[Greldek]

On 9/27/2021 at 7:56 AM, Without_Pause said:

Take two builds. One is resist based and the other is defense based. They both over time average out taking in 40 points of damage/sec. Which one is better? The defensive one is. The reason is even though the resist one is taking in small amounts of damage over that time frame, it is also taking in more of those hits. Also, more end drain. More slows. More -recharge. A defensive based set is taking in less of them and gives the player more time to recover from said attacks. Now, if the resist based set has some sort of advantage to help mitigate further damage, then that would help. The problem is Stalkers having lower HP and lower resist caps compared to other ATs. One way for the resist sets to be better is to improve an advantage to offensive numbers like using a damage aura, but Stalkers don't get those and added offense isn't unique to resist sets, see Shield. Plus, good luck with -def when you do add in def to a resist based set.

 

 

This game is so piss easy none of that matters.

 

There are no bad sets. Just bad players who cant get past the ezmode sets, that take no thought other than copying someone elses build to make strong.

 

Anyone who says they would never play resist sets on a stalker or scrapper is not worth listening to, to begin with.

 

People were soloing avs before IO sets and incarnates with resist set scrappers, soloing +4/8 missions too, back when you had to get friends to join your group so you could get the max team size,  but somehow now that they can stack IO set bonus' and incarnates and become unstoppable gods, those sets are somehow "bad" now. Give me a break.

[Without_Pause]

Saying people solo at +4/x8 is honestly a bit meaningless when you aren't saying what they are soloing exactly. I say this because I know of maps which will absolutely make a Res based Brute pause if not repeatedly faceplant even with IOs. Oh, you can solo +4/x8 against Council? Well, good luck with that being your standard.

[Troo]

2 hours ago, Without_Pause said:

I say this because I know of maps which will absolutely make a Res based Brute pause if not repeatedly faceplant even with IOs.

 

Please share, I've been trying a number of resist sets and would like to do some testing. PM if preferred. (I totally believe you)

[Linea]

46 minutes ago, Troo said:

Please share,

Mr G's Arc:  but it kills (almost) everyone.

 

Cimmie Test:  Grab three groups of Cimmies, make sure to maintain aggro on the 6 bosses, (no offensive powers) for 10 minutes, if you live you pass.

 

Standard Enemies Cave Test:  Cimmies, Arachnos, Longbow, IDF, Carnies,  all in a custom group in a cave map of all patrols, if you can hold and clear intersection 3 till it's empty, you pass.  I removed that one after I expanded 801, but it should be easy enough to recreate on your own in just a few minutes.  You can also test the various factions separately, which may or may not be more difficult depending on the RNG.  I just cram them all together and call it good.

 

AE 801: ... or use just 801 😜.   Testing armors is the primary reason it even exists, the secondary being that people asked for more.  Start at 801.0, and work your way up.  Use the '801 Static' versions if you just want a quick test.

 

[Troo]

9 minutes ago, Linea said:

Cimmie Test:  Grab three groups of Cimmies, make sure to maintain aggro on the 6 bosses, (no offensive powers) for 10 minutes, if you live you pass.

 

Cimerorans.. do non-damage mitigations count?

 

I like the idea of doing non incarnate content to get a good feel.

[Without_Pause]

In short, do red side content. You get Arachnos and Longbow. Longbow honestly aren't that bad, BUT their bosses and certainly specific ones are hell to take on so it might take more than a single map to get a vibe. A Rad based boss is, well, not fun because all it takes is toggles. Bye bye recharge and regen. Arachons might need more than one map as well. Arachnos are an issue because the sheer mass of Mu and more so with some being bosses can create enough end drain even an armor with some end drain protection can feel it. Their LTs, maybe, who have an assassin strike type of attack can move a health bar even on a Brute. BP can be an issue for some builds as well. My WP Brute can be fine and then, "OMG, what the hell just happened." Same with a Fire Brute when I was dealing with Arachnos. Now, take a Scrapper with SOs because Scrappers were "soloing +4/x8 back before IOs" and yeah, good luck with that.

 

Mr. G is a great measuring stick. There is a mob, whom I'm too lazy to look up, which debuffs end and recharge. They broke my brain a bit the first time I fought them at +3/x8 on my Fort. There's a mission which has a mob full of EBs and others including at least one boss. Heaven help the person who walks into that with diff setting set at soloing AVs. This says nothing of mobs which contain high amounts of Psy which few Resists sets can properly deal with and more so with just SOs.

 

801 testing has repeatedly shown Def based sets win out on average. Add in Scrappers/Stalkers having lower HP and resist caps, and yeah. I stand by my statement if you care about pushing the envelop in terms of diff setting. If not that or certainly in team situations, any/any.

Edited April 29, 2022 by Without_Pause

[Linea]

2 hours ago, Troo said:

Cimerorans.. do non-damage mitigations count?

I am primarily testing the armors, so the only 'active offensive mitigation I ever used was Divine Avalanche and target swapping so I didn't accidentally kill anything.   I only used Divine Avalanche because I was specifically and purposefully Pairing Defensive Weapons with Heal-Armor sets.   Pairing Defensive Weapons with Heal-Armor sets is a recommendation I continue to stand by.  Heals, Absorbs, Regen, (almost) anything that isn't offensive.   If you're running DM/TissuePaper because you want to see how the DM Heal effects the TissuePaper set, then of course using the heal is ok, but like Divine Avalanche, rotate targets so you don't accidentally kill anything.  I did not use damage auras or Burn for instance.   But at the same time, you'd have to decide for yourself what rules you want to follow.

[Microcosm]

To give the unpopular opinion, I almost always do resist or hybrid sets, including on stalkers/scrappers. The reason is, I use IO bonuses to get at or near s/l softcap on those characters, which then leaves me dodging the same attacks (in most cases) as the defense sets while further resisting the damage that does get through. You can't do the reverse as effectively, because 1) s/l defense covers any attack with s/l component (most attacks in game), while resist doesn't work that way; 2) the defense is still easier to come by in IOs than the resist; 3) Shadow Meld is available and quite potent, while no resist alternative exists (rune is there, but that's not as potent, and it's matched by unleash potential); 4) if you want to rely on insps instead to cover gaps or debuffs, defense insps are much more potent than resist insps, providing 12.5% def for a small vs 10% res; 5) on teams, defense buffs are everywhere while resist buffs are pretty uncommon.

 

That's not to say all the resist sets are made equal or magically super sturdy, or that you don't have higher possible resilience on a brute. But I find great value in elec armor in particular, which gives +rech, immunity to end drain and high resist to slow on top of good resists so it can handle many of those debuffs that do get through better than other resist sets. If I wasn't going to softcap it, and playing until the point it is softcapped, it does feel substantially weaker than defense sets. I've tested elec and rad scrappers and stalkers against 4/8 ITF missions, Vicious Aeon missions, and just now took a swing and 801.2 on test with an /elec scrapper (I'm not sure I've done these before, but they're fun). Elec is particularly good at handling some of the problem enemies in these if you can cover the defense debuffs and boosts damage output through the +rech. YMMV, I guess.

 

 

[Without_Pause]

9 hours ago, Microcosm said:

Elec is particularly good at handling some of the problem enemies in these if you can cover the defense debuffs.

 

 

Elec and other Res based sets don't have DDR so there is no "if." I've felt how weak a Def based set can be until it gets it's DDR up to par. Also, Res might be easier to get than you think. Two IOs can get you 10% Res with one adding in scaling so it can go up. A Tank can stack it's ATO proc to get 21% Res so in three IOs a Tank can have 31% Res. Even for a Stalker, it isn't that difficult to get over 60% Res to S/L on something like EA. Mine might be closer to 70% which is close to the cap. Stone is essentially a Def based set, and I can get all sort of Res on that. Def means annoying stuff doesn't hit you. DDR makes sure that remains true.

 

/elec does deal with some annoying stuff rather well. Now try /fire.

[Microcosm]

"If you can cover defense debuffs" means if you can find a solution to temporarily deal with it, such as overcapping with shadow meld, unleash potential, etc. If you don't do that the cascade can indeed be super painful, but I'm saying there are tools for it. The two res IOs are 6% combined, one of them with scaling for 10%, if that's what you mean. The reverse side is you get the 6% defense from steadfast and gladiators, which is twice as powerful before the scaling kicks in. And yes, the tank IO is bonkers and broken, but just in the context of tanks; I would not make the same statements in terms of tanks purely because of that IO.

 

I consider EA and Stone to both be hybrid sets, especially EA which gets a chunk of resist that, all else equal, makes it much more desirable to me than Sr or Nin (though I do like Nin). No argument on fire; it's a much more offensive set and obviously doesn't (and shouldn't) deal as well. Even with a defense primary fire will struggle against the harder stuff. But elec and rad can be very solid. Having done both, I vastly prefer taking my elec scrapper into Aeon than sr.

[Without_Pause]

Shield Wall is +5% Res. I thought the other started at 5% as well, but it is 3% scaling to 13%. I don't factor in grabbing pool powers to patch sets. I look how they stand on their own. Case in point, /regen starts to look a lot better once you dump powers outside of /regen into it.