What's the difference between Offensive and Defensive Opportunities?

[CCCM89]

Rolled a Sentinel not too long ago and just curious what the difference between these is supposed to be.  All the tooltips say is that Opportunity lowers defense and resistance of the target.

[Arcadio]

Offensive opportunity adds a small damage proc to all of your attacks while it's active, and it's activated by your T1. Defensive adds a chance to heal & restore end with each attack, and it's activated by your T2. The main benefit is the res & def debuff that both have on the target you activate it on.

Edited May 21, 2021 by Arcadio

[PyroBeetle]

That is a very good description.. I tend to not worry about the mechanic beyond the 20% resist ring which is useful on hard targets in a group. The defensive opportunity  an be helpful while leveling on an end heavy build, but for the most part whichever of your T1 and T2 attacks has the better DPA is the one you should be taking.

[CCCM89]

That is very helpful, thank you.  I still feel like the whole mechanic could use work, since it tends not to last long, takes too long to build, and goes against the idea of focusing one target like the description says since you can just switch targets and not have it effect your meter.  Still nice to have, nice to understand how it works, but I believe it could be easily adjusted to have more of an impact on more fights. without it getting too terribly strong.  Mayhaps if the dev team is open to suggestions, I'll make a post detailing some.

[Nightmare Shaman]

It doesn't really function in a way that rewards active choice making.  It just ends up being a debuff with some flair.  I think had the game lasted on live, this would have been tweaked further.  I'm glad it exists.  I like putting the glowy ring around enemies.  But, I never pick one or the other based on some kind of strategy.  Just whatever is available, I click and don't even think about it further.

[CCCM89]

I didn't think sentinels were in live.

[siolfir]

8 hours ago, CCCM89 said:

I didn't think sentinels were in live.

They weren't.

[Pouncy]

Thanks for that clarification. I had just been ignoring it. I read the Wiki but seems to just have posted the in game description and is lacking further information.  I started playing my first Sent on  Brainstrom and with the help of a few 4M members I was at least able to test it.  I think the Opportunity inherent is too distracting to me on many levels so its hard to see if i really care to bother with it even if I eventually understand it.

 

Mainly the build up to get this opportunity has nearly killed what it formed on. So any debuff I consider a waste.  So i find its complicated in that I don't have that much control over how this thing goes off.  I cant just throw out a debuff like Corrosive Enzymes at the start.

And its become my habit, instead of wasting time and a recharge on something near dead, to just leave near dead things for AoE to finish off, and hack on things that have disproportionate health to the rest.  Not sure if AoE is granted any benefit if I read the description right.

And I am not interested in saving power slots for 2 t1 powers that I don't need but seems is required for triggers, when i can use a Higher one and do the damage that the debuff was supposed to give me the complicated way.

 

I think if i go on ignoring the opportunity I will enjoy the class.  Much like having a pick up just because I like them, and never hauling things in it or pulling a trailer.

 

 

[oldskool]

6 hours ago, Pouncy said:

*snip*  clarification  *snip*

 

Just a little more clarification. 🙂 

 

Opportunity has a passive effect on all the time.  Your attacks always debuff target's defense and resistance by a small amount.  It isn't a big benefit and it can be resisted, but it is always there.  Also, the damage effect or sustain effect ride on all of your attacks for 15 seconds.  That buff is not dependent on targets.  Even if the enemy with the big glowing target dies, you still have the damage/sustain proc active for the duration of Opportunity.  It isn't much but using Opportunity isn't a total loss like it is sometimes portrayed. 

The intent of the Opportunity design has been stated to be a 50% uptime of higher damage and a 50% downtime.  This isn't how it actually works in practice unless you build for it.  As characters level, they lack the accuracy and to-hit metrics necessary to consistently land attacks.  You have to land the attacks in order to gain meter and you have to land the T1 or T2 to apply the effect.  Additionally, lower level characters lack the recharge to consistently chain attacks, and manage the sustain, needed to achieve 50% uptime.  

Almost all of the primary sets can build 90 Opportunity within 13 seconds on single targets.  This requires using common approach of T4 - T1 - T3 - T1.  A T2 could be swapped too depending on set and preferences.  Most attack sets have a short animation and recharging T1 attack that allows for a roughly 6 second animation cycle using those 4 buttons (it averages around 13 seconds).  Assault Rifle can potentially build for just T1 -> T2 repeatedly that builds 90 meter in about 11 seconds but does hardly any damage. 😛 

The Opportunity Strikes ATO can reduce this time frame down but it can be very random in single target chains due to proc rate plus high recharge in the set.  Area powers are a completely different animal.  

Area powers can sometimes be better triggers for the ATO sets and can add a burst of Opportunity (about a third of the bar).  Sonic Blast is an exception as is Flamethrower in Assault Rifle.  I'm not sure if this is bug or not, but all of Sonic's AoE and Flamethrower check multiple times.  My Flamethrower on my AR/SR build goes from 0 Opportunity to around 80+ meter if all targets get hit.  Buckshot, on the other hand, does not do this.  The Strikes ATO can also virtually guarantee 100 meter if you use it in the T9.  The Ward proc is also reasonable in the T9.  

A few more tips on manipulating Opportunity: 

 

The T1 and T2 powers cannot both be the builder of the meter and the trigger of the effect (without exploiting).  So if you are at 89 meter and you use your T1 power to get you up to 97 (all T1's add 8 meter), the power will not also trigger Offensive mode (however, if you had 90+ the effect would go off).  If you use the T2 next, then your bar will be consumed for Defensive Opportunity instead.  This is why it is a common recommendation to not take both powers *if* you want to control the effect.  Another reason why both aren't recommended is because more often than not, the T2 powers just aren't that good to begin with (with a few exceptions). 

 

If we recall that I mentioned a T4 -> T1 -> T3 -> T1 attack sequence is about 6 seconds long, then know that the second casting of the T3 will generate 90+ meter within 12-13 seconds.  That means the T1 will automatically trigger the effect when it lands.  This uptime is all assuming every hit lands so making sure your build is landing hits within the accuracy range of your difficulty setting is important.  Misses are going to happen at a 5% rate and it will influence Opportunity uptime.  Still, it isn't that bad when built for it.  

Edited May 27, 2021 by oldskool

[Aeroprism]

That's a super nice topic and some really good explanations! Thanks!!

 

So what's the smartest way to slot Sentinel ATOs?  I know that some ATs like scrappers have a "better" way to maximize the ATO's benefits. Is this true for Sentinels or can I just wo willy-nilly and not look back?

[Underfyre]

Well proc wise, they both have a chance to go off on multiple targets. So if you have the chance to slot one of your AOEs with them, it would be optimal.

[oldskool]

14 hours ago, Aeroprism said:

So what's the smartest way to slot Sentinel ATOs?  I know that some ATs like scrappers have a "better" way to maximize the ATO's benefits. Is this true for Sentinels or can I just wo willy-nilly and not look back?

 

I'll expand what underfyre mentions with some more information.  

I think the first thing to get out of the way is the Sentinel procs in their ATOs aren't that good to begin with.  Actually, they are pretty much crap due to the extremely limited number of powers that return benefits *and* they are affected by the purple patch reducing them further (at least Ward is).  

Here are some ideas on places to put the Ward and Strikes sets.  Mind you, the bonuses within the sets themselves are generally worth having.  The procs just stink.  

Strikes = Your generic 10 target AoE power for almost all sets.

 

Ward = The cone power for sets where the T9 is a PBAoE attack and the T9 for all others.  Caveat here if you're using an epic PBAoE power. 

 

Edit note: So it looks like I do typically follow my own advice in most of my Sentinel builds.  I.e., Ward in T9 and Strikes in 10 target AoE.  Some of my 

builds don't follow this pattern and I had different reasons for each use case.  Sometimes I want Ward somewhere else or I may not mind a single target

power like Flares running Opportunity Strikes.  It just depends on the rest of the build.  Still, the generic advice above is a decent way to look at things for most use cases.

 

Opportunity Strikes:

 

Sonic Blast and Assault Rifle have some quirks that may influence where you place the ATO sets when it comes to the AoE powers.  All of the Sonic Blast cones, and Flamethrower count Opportunity multiple times (the other cone powers do not).  They'll do ridiculous things with the Opportunity Strikes ATO like fill your entire bar in a single cast when the proc goes off (other cones don't do this either).  Flamethrower, by itself, can yield +80 meter on its own and the Sonic cones go further because they hit up to 10 targets each.  Opportunity Strikes is a bit of a waste in Sonic AoE, and may be a waste in Flamethrower (or not if that is your goal).  

Sonic Blast doesn't have a lot damage proc options so the Strikes set can be fine in the single target powers, but generally I would never recommend you do this.  

The Strikes set is not ideal in the T9 powers because at best those may be recharging at around 23 seconds on the lowest end with the highest recharge.  The entire point of using the Strikes set is to try to refresh the meter *after* it drops to 0.  This happens every 15 seconds after the effect has been enabled.  Why wait 8+ seconds more for a guaranteed bar fill when you're going to be attacking, and building meter, during that time frame?  

 

In other words, optimizing Opportunity meter gains should be about how fast can you get to 90 (when the circles appear on your T1 and T2) without going over or wasting other power uses.  The T9 powers running the Stikes set can be total overkill and get you to build more meter that you can ever actually use.  This is why I do not care for that set there.

Sentinel's Ward and PBAoE T9's (A conflict of damage): 

Sentinel's Ward can be an ideal replacement to the Ragnarok purple set for a T9 power for a few reasons.  1) Ragnarok doesn't have a damage proc, and 2) the high amount of recharge in the Ward set is wonderful for making the T9 more available.   I suppose a 3rd option is that the Ward set has the most forgiving proc rate between the two ATOs and therefore it is effectively guaranteed to proc against a single target.  However, you can gain the benefit more than that.  So dumping the nuke with the Ward proc can build you more absorb than it might elsewhere.  

However, several T9 powers are point-blank area of effect (PBAoE).  That means they have the potential to run 5 pieces of Armageddon + the Fury of Gladiator -20% resistance proc.  This is substantial damage as both procs are nearly guaranteed to go off.  That's both extra fire damage from Armageddon and reducing resistance to all enemies hit by 20%.  

The however, however, caveat here is if you're using a different PBAoE power to hold that Armageddon + Fury combo.  Radiation and Electric Blast both natively have PBAoE options like Irradiate and Short Circuit or you could take a PBAoE out of the epics like Fire Sword Circle.  So that may open up some slotting to the T9 for the Ward set.  Otherwise, just park the Ward set in the cone power.  Again, the proc rate on the set is really forgiving and it can trigger from the lower target cap.  The absorb itself isn't so great that it is worth worrying that much about in the first place.   

The other side of the coin here is that I often do not find it worth my time and effort to proc out my AoE powers in some futile effort to catch up to Blaster damage.  Instead, I prefer procs in single target powers where I feel the Sentinel struggles the most (like against Bosses).  The Sentinel ATO sets do not directly contribute to increasing damage in the same way that procs will.  So that is why you're not going to see many recommendations on single target powers.  There are a few exceptions, but they are not the norm.

Edited June 4, 2021 by oldskool
typos and stuff

[Underfyre]

And to build further on what oldskool said, be aware of what abilities are legit aoe powers versus pseudo pets. Rain spells and burn patches are pets, so they will only count once. They are NOT affected by purple patch tho, so that's a very minor consideration. If you slot it there and you're fighting +3s, it's the difference between 22/35 opportunity.

 

Rains:

Ice Storm

Whirlpool

Rain of Fire

Blizzard

Rain of Arrows

Burn

 

And Voltaic Sentinel is obviously also a pet.

[Aeroprism]

Amazing. You guys are really nice to take the time to explain all this!!

 

Sooo... I swear to God I'm not a noob but... what's a purple patch?

[Underfyre]

A pre-release, post-beta patch the developers put in the game to make it more difficult to face enemies higher level than yourself.

 

https://archive.paragonwiki.com/wiki/Purple_Patch

[Teirusu]

One thing that I'd like to point out about the Fury of Gladiator -20% resistance proc; it doesn't apply the debuff instantly.  Thus, the damage of power it's fired from isn't effected by the -20% res it places on mobs.  I've tested with Nova, at least, to confirm it's behavior in a T9.  Because of this, I actually prefer to two damage procs in a T9 nuke (Or more.) if I can get away with it.  This all but guarantees that you'll one-shot minions that it hits as long as you're using AIM (+Gaussian's Build-up proc.  You really -really- want this proc in AIM... I -can not- stress that enough.) with your T9.

If you're not one-shotting the minions with your T9, then you're having to waste another attack (Or two) on killing them which then means more targets for your other target-cap-limited AOEs to deal with.

Also, as far as the back-of-the-napkin math goes for that -20% res proc, you need to hit 3.5x base 100 damage attacks to make up the 70-ish damage you'd lose from not using a normal damage proc.  So, this would generally be a loss against minions for sure, you will generally only need to hit them 1 (maaaaybe 2) more times with an AOE power to kill them, if you didn't one-shot them already.  For Lts, this might come out as a wash.  For Bosses, could very well be better then a standard damage proc as you'll definitely need to use a bunch more attacks to polish them off. 

Few things to further consider though; 1) The -20% res proc only lasts for 10 seconds.  2) Most cast times are going to be in the 1.5 to 2 second range.  Thus you may only get another 4-6 attacks off during that time.  3) Most sentinel attacks are under 100 base damage.  Most other AOEs are definitely under that.  Generally, only the hard hitting ST attacks are over that. 

Sooo, in reality, the chances of you making up that lost 71 damage of a normal damage proc aren't that great...  Of course, if you're in a team, then you have 7 people that can help with that.  Which, in that case, they're great!  Otherwise, solo, the -20% Res, and others that are similar to it, are only about as good as normal proc and can be lower.  ATs that have higher base damage (Basically those whom have better melee powers) get waaay more mileage out of the -Res procs, for sure.  Take a War Mace Scrapper, for example, just 2 of their powers do less then 100 base damage.. and they have chances for criticals.