Dimension Shift Stigma

[goombalord]

I love my grav troller, but I hate playing him because of all the grief I get from other players.  Between players that don't know about the changes and think they can't attack at all, or ranged players who don't want to take a step forward (even if they're in melee range 80% of the time anyhow) all I hear about is how bad the power is and that I'm an awful person for using it.  I try educating those that are confused about the power, but that rarely seems to change opinions.  How can we remove the stigma associated with this power?

[oedipus_tex]

I think this may be a case where your teammates have some right to complain. It's not that you are awful person for using this power, it's that there are few situations where using it outweighs the confusion it creates for teammates even after they know how the power works. The power has one effect, cutting off interaction between players and enemies. It's mildly useful solo but there are vanishingly few scenarios where teammates will appreciate you forcing them to reposition just to hit the enemy. It's not even often a good power during an actual emergency due to its tendency to cause teammates to waste their long cooldowns in the confusion.

Edited May 28, 2021 by oedipus_tex

[goombalord]

Maybe if I used it out of nowhere but I give warning when I join groups and info on the power.  And I think an unresistable immobilize is great in a lot of situations.

[Sir Myshkin]

The best case is knowing not only when, but also how to use Dimension Shift in ways that a team is unlikely to recognize that you’re even using the power until a scenario arises that it becomes apparent your application of its function is literally saving them.

 

Having said that, and I cannot stress then enough, there are still outlier cases where “this might be the best time” still turns into someone getting frustrated for one reason or another for lack of understanding it’s mechanics (or just knee-jerking).

 

Keep these things in mind about Dimension Shift:

 

Prime situations in my mind: enclosed spaces where you have been ambushed and will continue to get further ambushed, but are unable to retreat/proceed. Don’t use it on the incoming spawn, use it on your team and envelop them to act as a shield from outside damage. A team crunched together will often never notice an activated Shift since they’ll be happily swinging away at whatever’s there trapped with them.

 

Wormhole is another super attractive way to cluster bomb groups together, we all know this, but what’s cool is that you can Wormhole into an active Dimension Shift, and the Shift doesn’t have a mob cap, so it’ll force immobilize everything you throw inside it.

 

Will you be using the power constantly? No, but you have to prioritize unique ways to take advantage of what it can do. I take Force Bubble on my Fire/FF, but do I have it running 24/7? Haha, no, but there are some pretty fun tricks with that power to keep it around for.

[Carnifax]

It's a very, very niche power which risks ruining things for your other ranged & ranged support teammates. I've had people block Howling Twilight with it. And nukes. And AoE mezzes. 

 

It's not totally useless, since it doesn't need slots it can be picked up as a 1 shot panic button. I'll use it as a breather for 5 seconds if a team loses its shape or an ambush kicks in but once people pivot to the new threat it's unneeded and too disruptive for my liking. 

 

I mean I was on a Manti semi-PuG which ended up very control heavy but there was a Grav Domi who kept using it. All they were really doing was protecting the enemy from the AoE mezzes & ranged buffs / debuffs we were throwing out. 

 

 

[goombalord]

9 hours ago, Sir Myshkin said:

The best case is knowing not only when, but also how to use Dimension Shift in ways that a team is unlikely to recognize that you’re even using the power until a scenario arises that it becomes apparent your application of its function is literally saving them.

 

Having said that, and I cannot stress then enough, there are still outlier cases where “this might be the best time” still turns into someone getting frustrated for one reason or another for lack of understanding it’s mechanics (or just knee-jerking).

 

Keep these things in mind about Dimension Shift:

 

Prime situations in my mind: enclosed spaces where you have been ambushed and will continue to get further ambushed, but are unable to retreat/proceed. Don’t use it on the incoming spawn, use it on your team and envelop them to act as a shield from outside damage. A team crunched together will often never notice an activated Shift since they’ll be happily swinging away at whatever’s there trapped with them.

 

Wormhole is another super attractive way to cluster bomb groups together, we all know this, but what’s cool is that you can Wormhole into an active Dimension Shift, and the Shift doesn’t have a mob cap, so it’ll force immobilize everything you throw inside it.

 

Will you be using the power constantly? No, but you have to prioritize unique ways to take advantage of what it can do. I take Force Bubble on my Fire/FF, but do I have it running 24/7? Haha, no, but there are some pretty fun tricks with that power to keep it around for.

This is essentially how I try to use it.   I'm not using it every spawn, or even every team, and look for the best ways to use it like with wormhole or an ambush.  But sounds like there is no removing the stigma that it is a bad power, at least in pugs, and I should just shelve it to avoid the grief.

[JJDrakken]

16 hours ago, goombalord said:

Maybe if I used it out of nowhere but I give warning when I join groups and info on the power.  And I think an unresistable immobilize is great in a lot of situations.

 

No, Phase Shift powers are shite, only good for two thinsg: PvP(meh) or a Serious Oh Shit Button.  Everyone wants mobs gathered up so we can explode our AOES over & over again. Moment you Phase Shift, you literally just added loads of time and frustration to the fight. It annoys so many people. Back in the day folks did it to troll, to point Grav Controllers/Dominators in general faced a huge stigma to get on teams.  To lesser extent Dark Miasma and Sonic Resonances.

 

Use it to solo if you want, but if your on a team, use only for OH SHIT BUTTON, as in half+ your team is down.

Edited May 28, 2021 by JJDrakken

[kikyoku]

I agree with the general sentiment that it confused people most of the time. I think it would be better if the things on the other side of the shift were untargetable and the boundary was more visibly defined.

 

I tend to use it in two rare scenarios :

1. I am stealthing and there is a glowie near a mob, I can use it to buy time.
2. There are two mobs near each other, and I know my team is about to aggro the second one and get overwhelmed.

The second one is tricky, because if you time it wrong, your tank is going to jump in to absorb alpha and get cut off from support.

[oedipus_tex]

I personally don't think I've encountered a situation where Dimension Shift turned a fight in my favor. I'm not saying it's not theoretically possible, but I've never actually seen it. 

 

I've been meaning to do a write up on this power for my Oddball Powers series, so maybe I'll uncover some hidden value in it I didn't see before. Anytime I think I might actually be interested in using it for something I'm reminded of its duration: 20 seconds. I actually don't know what happens if you try to summon another Dimension Shift after the last one fades. The power is coded quite strangely. For example it has an incredibly long Activate Period (35 seconds) and unlike almost all other toggles all of the endurance cost is front loaded instead of costing endurance every few seconds. 

[Carnifax]

17 hours ago, kikyoku said:

There are two mobs near each other, and I know my team is about to aggro the second one and get overwhelmed

I tend to wormhole group 2 into group 1. That way they're now stunned and likely in a whole world of debuff and general aoe pain.

 

I'd generally only do that once I knew the team a little though, whether it be friends or just a team I know can handle it.

[Naraka]

Teaming has, for the most part, become a herd and burn affair so tactics tend to be limited.  When I play my Grav/Energy Dom, most of the time (on decent teams), it's not all that necessary to keep everything locked down or chase DPS benchmarks.  So long as you stack the mobs and the team has AoEs, that's the typical framework of "teamwork".  In such cases, I don't even bother "following" the group.  Typically, I have my stealth on and I am 1 or 2 spawns ahead of the team and I'm, more or less, dumping spawns into other spawns.  Sure, I'll end up throwing out a control or two while Wormhole is recharging, toss in some Whirling Hands and what not, but it's typically me (without my pet) maneuvering to feed mobs into the team woodchipper.

 

Dimension Shift, like most defensive measures on teams, isn't really necessary but I'd be lying if I said I don't often use it.  Beyond being a "don't touch me" barrier or an "Alamo dome" for teams who actually need mitigation against many oncoming foes, it's also a "trap" to group enemies together so they can be wormholed and dumped into the woodchipper.  If a spawn happens to be spread out, you could just ignore it and port what's in range or you can attempt to group them.  Pop it on a chokepoint, pull them in, lock-em down and port them over.

 

To use unorthodox tools, you might have to pick up unorthodox play styles.  Following a tank around probably isn't the best circumstances for it but most of the time, a tank doesn't need you to lock things down.  If you were any other control set besides Plant, you're kind of up a creek in that situation, but with Grav, you have other options.  Pick up Stealth, btw.

 

EDIT: Another point is, since I'm anticipating where the tank is going to move the rest of the team, it's sometimes possible I'll make a mistake and the team ends up going in a different direction.  Now when you're a squishy AT that doesn't have a lot of def/res, out in the thick of it, having a 20sec placable nullifying/"don't touch me" field can be very helpful (I also have Personal Force Field if it's that level range).  Another side-effect of my strategy is some unexpected ambushes on the team (targeted on me and manufactured by me) to spice up missions.  Much more entertaining.

Edited May 29, 2021 by Naraka

[Sir Myshkin]

On 5/28/2021 at 11:19 AM, 5099y_74c05 said:

I don't think it's a stigma per say, its a crappy power. The power actually forces other players to change how they play and nullifies their power if they don't alter their play; in a dynamic situation this is difficult to coordinate without voice comms. I don't think any other power exists that forces players to behave a certain way.

Dimension Shift oddly enough ended up being close to a power in the game Warframe (for those that may be familiar with it). The Warframe Limbo has an ability that generates a dimensional shift in the same manner where damage doesn't cross over in/out, but the he himself can shoot in/out through his own abilities, and so long as someone is within the field they can impact enemies within the field. The big difference here is that there's no immobilizing effect, the size of the field can be changed through enhancement, and when it collapses it causes damage to the enemies within it. This isn't the first time I've said it, but I would really like to see our version of Dimension Shift can turned into this where the size can be enhanced and it causes damage to the enemies inside when it collapses, and the bigger the size, the larger the damage (and longer the cooldown). So someone could keep it as a panic button, or turn it into a true fast-fire weapon. Flip on, flip off burst damage.

[krj12]

I had someone use it on my  ITF the other day... I'm not that familiar with the power, what exactly does it do?

I thought it was one of those powers that protected me at the expense of doing anything to the enemy.

It actually had no effect on what I was doing, I was still able to attack the enemy.

 

 

Edited May 30, 2021 by krj12

[Naraka]

On 5/30/2021 at 7:09 PM, krj12 said:

I had someone use it on my  ITF the other day... I'm not that familiar with the power, what exactly does it do?

I thought it was one of those powers that protected me at the expense of doing anything to the enemy.

It actually had no effect on what I was doing, I was still able to attack the enemy.

 

 

It's merely a phase shift power that works on foes and allies.

 

Any targets that are phased can attack each other like normal but any of the opposite effect (phased vs unphased) have 0 effect.  So while it had no effect on you being able to attack other foes within range of the Dimension Shift effect, any foes *outside* of the Dimension Shift effect cannot harm you nor you them.  

[tidge]

I love the unloved powers even if I don't take/use them. An advance word of warning that you have such a power and may use it in a PUG would

• remind me that the use of such a power may be coming
• give me further incentive to express my support should any other PUGmate complain

[oedipus_tex]

To understand why people resent this power so much, you should remember that it doesn't just cut players off from attacking enemies and vice versa, it actually prevents players from affecting their own teammates. If you're playing a support character and your intended target steps into a Dimension Shift, you blow the power. Adrenaline Boost, Incarnate Destiny, AoE heals, Chrono Shift, Farsight, etc will all be affected. Big bubbles, Leadership powers, and other auras are similarly cut off for the duration. With Dimension Shift you are forcing support players to close distance with melee characters to continue supporting them.

 

There are very few situations on a team where Dimension Shift is likely to give you an edge, and a lot of situations where it adds more problems than it solves. Probably the best case where it's briefly useful is if you somehow aggro an AV you're not ready for. But this is such a one-off situation I wouldn't take the power anticipating it. For sure it's not something you should be casting frequently unless the team is in way over its head, and I wonder if a team that far in over their heads would be coordinated enough to rely on Dimension Shift anyway.

Edited June 2, 2021 by oedipus_tex

[ABlueThingy]

I was actually considering trying a Grav/Storm and seeing if I could load down the storm powers with Procs and make a little death bubble using DS.  But I've never gotten a grav up that high.  Would that work?  How do psudo-pets work here.

[oedipus_tex]

1 hour ago, 5099y_74c05 said:

It wouldn't be too hard to level a toon to test this interaction; DS is available at level 12 and by 16 you get Freezing Rain. If it doesn't work there are other great reasons to like Grav/Storm.

 

From what I remember powers, including pseudopets, will only affect the mobs if you cast it from within the bubble and remain there. The graphical effects will appear but the debuffs/damage wont be applied until you reenter the barrier.

 

Where I think the power is exploitable is with PROCs but you really only have three damage based PROCs options available, one Immobilize and two Controller AT IOs

 

I'll see if my Grav/Traps/Mace has a spare build to test this with. Another option is to ask on broadcast if anyone has Gravity Controller/Dominator with this power to participate in a test.

 

 

You are correct. The pets summoned by a Storm player will not injure enemies inside a Dimension Shift if the caster is outside it. This happens because the pets don't accept buffs. Thus, they can't be independently Phased.

 

Pets that accept buffs, like Mastermind and Controller pets, can theoretically benefit from Phase Shift, but this also means the Mastermind or Controller is cut off from supporting the pets while they are Phased.

[Tantricsecrets]

This power blocks ranged attackers from dpsing if they are not inside the bubble. Phase powers are pretty annoying on teams in the current game unless your on a very weak team that has too much aggro.

[Spectre7878]

The one thing I use this power is to stop me from getting damaged. It’s great if team mates wanna jump in it to stop taking hits. I also found that on ITF when Nictus uses his Rez power and everyone gets mezed. I use the power before he used his to prevent me from getting mezed. 😁

[bustacap]

Can you not enter the affected area after it is cast to damage mobs.

 

Recently leveling blasters since live and I jumped in after and FSC and Ice Strormed to no avail.  This confused me as it conflicted with my understanding from the Grav/Time wombly thread. 

 

 

[kelika2]

Imagine getting team teleported as far away from combat as possible and the teleporter says "its for your own good" and you cant talk to null because task force mode or just dont wanna make the journey

imagine that not stopping

 

that is what dimension shift feels like to others.

[bustacap]

I always jump right into mobs and Fire sword Circle. Burn, Ice Storm, etc. with abandon as any good blapper would.  I guess it just didn't register. 

Edited June 7, 2021 by bustacap

[ZemX]

44 minutes ago, bustacap said:

I always jump right into mobs and Fire sword Circle. Burn, Ice Storm, etc. with abandon as any good blapper would.  I guess it just didn't register. 

 

5 hours ago, 5099y_74c05 said:

Under the hood the DS power is a pseudopet that pulses "intangibility" at some interval; so there are probably moments where you are physically in or out of the DS field but you are register as tangible or intagible (basically the opposite of what you would expect). If you cast in this delay window, your powers would go whiff. Its hard to say without observing and testing the situation.

 

This right here.  According to City of Data the "Activate period" on the pseudopet for Dimension Shift is 2 seconds and the phased effect, once you're hit by it, lasts 2.25 seconds.  That's a LONG time in combat.  You need to leap into the field and begin counting "one-and-two-and---fire!" or something like that.   Maybe even to three to account for server latency.

[kikyoku]

11 hours ago, bustacap said:

 

 

 

 

Wild question, if you are grav/dark, can things in your dimension shift affect things in your black hole? If they overlap do they cancel each other out?

 

I would totally be a physicist in super hero world.

Edited June 7, 2021 by kikyoku
Totally missed that busta's question already had better answers