New Thunderspy updates look pretty cool.

[Wavicle]

Would be great if we could get some of the expanded Weapon costume options, Teleport customization, etc.

This isn't like "omg they have it why can't we?", HC is amazing, but some of that stuff would be cool.

[Garymathers]

Agreed. 

[Gulbasaur]

Thunderspy has always been quite driven to be the first to X (after the Sanctuary, which could be a bit too bleeding-edge for some people) and I like the focus on innovation. There has definitely been a sea change in Thunderspy in the last year - they took on a trans dev (or GM? not sure) as part of their team and when some idiot people took issue with this, a lot of the chan neckbeard die-hards either left in protest or were asked to leave because while it is broadly unmoderated, they do not tolerate personal attacks and there's a difference between "banter" and attacking someone's right to exist. The vitriol that used to flow out of it is largely a thing of the past. 

 

It'd be nice to see some inter-server work... like a cultural exchange kinda thing. I realise that's unlikely, but I've seen it work out in other gaming communities where collaboration can really help everyone involved. Rebirth's guardians look excellent (similar to the EATs but with more choice) and the idea of Thunderspy's melee defenders is right up my alley. Thunderspy filled out the enemy level lists so that all contacts can be done at any level without being locked into task force mode via Ouro. There's a lot of good stuff out there and I'd love it if more good work like that was shared, although I appreciate that people have a right to decide who they share their work with. 

Edited June 14, 2021 by Gulbasaur
edit because I type like I have baguettes for fingers

[PyrioldFarm]

The branch that Homecoming is using is incompatible with what everybody else uses. Things could probably be ported, but it might be pretty time consuming. As far as i know there is quite some code sharing going on on the other servers, they are all derived from the ourobouros version (afaik).

[Techwright]

23 hours ago, Wavicle said:

Would be great if we could get some of the expanded Weapon costume options, Teleport customization, etc.

This isn't like "omg they have it why can't we?", HC is amazing, but some of that stuff would be cool.

Are they the ones with the customizable illusion controller pets?  I love that my ill/storm troller gets to put up illusions of himself (massive kudos again to the Hometeam), but I'd also love the option to be able to go to Serge and costume my trio.

 

[First Player]

If only…

[MTeague]

Support/Melee OR  Melee/Support, is a thing that I would love to have on Homecoming.  NOT. Repeat. NOT a straight port of what Thunderspy has. But something the HC devs spent time looking at, fiddling around with different Inherent ideas, and finding something that they believe strikes a playable if highly challenging balance. Do I expect to see that anytime soon? Oh hell no. Maybe not ever. I can dream, and that's likely all it will be. But there's a lot of people who would be interested to play around with that pairing of powersets. 

 

MM Henchmen Customization is a Siren Song in it's own right. But while the idea sounds quick and easy, getting it to work and play nice and have visible costume differences for the Pet Buffs powers, is not small task. And it wouldn't shock me if the porting of it into HC's code caused major headaches with Pet AI and took several iterations. I do get why the Cost/Benefit has not (yet) been something that HC has wanted to publicly commit to. 

 

Most of the rest of what Thunderspy has?  I've very glad we DON'T have. 

Having every mob scale to lvl 50 and every mission scale to lvl 50?  Good GOD NO.

• probably wouldn't really be done right, becuase it's probably not giving lvl 50 Hellions access to a wide variety of powers.  When they can pop powers that make players scream in frustration?  Minions spamming Flashfire and chain stunning anyone without status protection, and using Rise of the Phoenix to come back to life, etc, Maybe I'd be willing to talk turikey. But same old same old powers and more bullet spongy?  No. That's not scaling them up, that's a joke. 
• My ulterior motive / what I'd really hate:   Probably be the death knell of me ever finding 1-44 (ie, NON-Incarnate) teams ever again. And incarnate teams, to me, are Boring. The game would very rapidly become a single player game with a chat window for me.  Still. If at some point, the HC devs decide "All Incarnates All The Time" is really what they want, well, they win, I lose. Devs have the right to do anything they damn well please.

[Lunchmoney]

Thunderspy? Is that a another CoX place? 

[merrypessimist]

2 hours ago, Lunchmoney said:

Thunderspy? Is that a another CoX place? 

 

Yes.  Thunderspy is one of... I want to say at least half a dozen different server groups using the source code that got released back in the day.  Homecoming is the best (I'm here after all) and if I recall the only one of the lot that made the transition to full 64-bit code.  I also think but am not 100% certain that it's the only server cluster that's added new story arc content.

[Alchemystic]

2 hours ago, Gulbasaur said:

Yikes, okay well clearly the efforts to clean up their act aren't as successful as I thought.

 

Thunderspy is run by a small clique from 4chan, if it's any surprise.

 

As for the topic at hand; these arent strictly Thunderspy updates, they're made on Ourodev24 for any compatible server, which sadly HC isn't.

 

[Wavicle]

ick, I'm sorry I mentioned it.

[Snarky]

3 hours ago, Gulbasaur said:

Yikes, okay well clearly the efforts to clean up their act aren't as successful as I thought.

I am viewed as either extremely conservative or extremely liberal depending on the opinionated nutjub who is commenting.  But whether liberal or conservative let me just say.....

 

"Oh hell no!"  

 

I am so glad we have a (in my opinion) fair minded group of folks working behind the scenes.  That this game and these forums are a safe and welcoming place.  This goes beyond what the Devs and Moderators do.  This is due to the community that congregate here.  Even my Snarkiness is mostly relegated to starting forum posts that are screeds against Invulnerability's tier 9.  Which should be changed.  Just sayin'.

 

So a big thank you to our community for being a place where we welcome anyone who comes here.  Thank you for making a safe place for creators, artists, people who society does not have patience with, for the different, the odd, and even us villains.  We even allow vanilla heroes a place....for now.

[Myrmidon]

On 6/14/2021 at 2:11 AM, Gulbasaur said:

they took on a trans dev (or GM? not sure) as part of their team and when some idiot people took issue with this, a lot of the chan neckbeard die-hards either left in protest or were asked to leave because while it is broadly unmoderated, they do not tolerate personal attacks and there's a difference between "banter" and attacking someone's right to exist. The vitriol that used to flow out of it is largely a thing of the past. 

While I could care less about any server other than Homecoming, I have to say that if there ever came a time that I saw this and could do something about it here, I would deal with that kind of behavior decisively. This place is our home, open to everyone and should stay that way.

[psion312]

On 6/14/2021 at 4:26 AM, PyrioldFarm said:

The branch that Homecoming is using is incompatible with what everybody else uses.

 

No, it isn't. There's certainly differences, but the power system that was written by Number Six on the secret server explicitly supports legacy powerset files.

 

9 hours ago, SuperPlyx said:

 

 

I appreciate people's effort pointing out our flaws. But that's a literal teenager, who was also warned for doing that. Unsurprisingly, so are a lot of the "edgy" users people try to point out.

 

Our policy is for the game to be treated differently than how people interact on the forum or Discord, because the game offers tools for people to block and filter words.

 

1 hour ago, Tyrannical said:

 

Thunderspy is run by a small clique from 4chan, if it's any surprise.

 

As for the topic at hand; these arent strictly Thunderspy updates, they're made on Ourodev24 for any compatible server, which sadly HC isn't.

 

 

That's not true. The server certainly has roots in /v/, but the majority of the staff uses imageboards as a maybe once a month thing if at all. There's more users here that post on 4chan, if the responses I've seen were any indicator.

 

Our changes also aren't part of Ourodev. We contribute to Ourodev's upstream fork for bug fixes and I do code reviews, but the majority of things people talk about that we do are kept to us. There's a litany of reasons for that, but it's the same reason I don't bash Homecoming for being closed.

 

--

 

I will fully admit to being a Thunderspy developer, if it wasn't obvious, and unfortunately, could not log into my original account here due to locking myself out from phone typos - so this isn't some attempt at evading a ban. I typically try to not reply here - as I read the forums for Bug Reports, something I do with every server's public reports, and less so for drama. However, I'd prefer to clear the air on what we do and do not do. Otherwise, these threads tend to get locked over people being wholly incorrect and breaking the rules with people intent on spreading complete misinformation.

 

--

 

Personally, I don't mind that servers don't share our same opinions and people feel that this is a "safer" place. I don't feel that way - and I left partly as a result.

 

My experience was that it tended to be just as bad here, but people are better at hiding their vitriol. I also didn't find teaming any easier and ended up with the same small group of badge hunters every single time I ran something. That was on Excelsior. I'm sure people can provide their anecdotes for how they always get groups, but I didn't as someone who barely spoke in game chat more than using LFG, offering public farms, and responding to tells. The staff can confirm that with my logged messages, if they want to go digging for how some awful Thunderspy developer treats people.

 

Ultimately, the CoH community is just the insular group of cliques it has always been - starting from the old forums, to the secret server, to how people operate here. People like to pat themselves on the back for being so open, even though it's easy to see people's toxic behavior on this forum towards new players and old players alike. Yet there's a wonder why the community at large is in death throes.

 

After all that is said and done, my views on how to treat users, how to develop content, and how to treat each other didn't align with people here. And so I did my best to not be here.

[Alchemystic]

8 hours ago, psion312 said:

Our policy is for the game to be treated differently than how people interact on the forum or Discord, because the game offers tools for people to block and filter words.

 

There's your problem.

 

HC enforces the same policies in the forum and official discord channel as it does in game, whereas Thunderspy does not.

 

It seems convenient for Thunderspy to claim less responsibility over these channels so they can distance themselves from the toxic elements highlighted above, when they should be properly policing their community across all official platforms, so it's naïve to think that the controversy caused by these individuals are all isolated incidents that exist outside of Thunderspy's reach.

 

If you dislike the notion that these vitriolic statements have become representative of Thunderspy, then that's no fault of ours, it's the result of a dismissive approach to community management.

 

 

Edited June 15, 2021 by Tyrannical
PS. The same tools to block/filter people exist on forums and discord too.

[ExoGrimz]

5 hours ago, Snarky said:

I am viewed as either extremely conservative or extremely liberal depending on the opinionated nutjub who is commenting.  But whether liberal or conservative let me just say.....

 

"Oh hell no!"  

 

I am so glad we have a (in my opinion) fair minded group of folks working behind the scenes.  That this game and these forums are a safe and welcoming place.  This goes beyond what the Devs and Moderators do.  This is due to the community that congregate here.  Even my Snarkiness is mostly relegated to starting forum posts that are screeds against Invulnerability's tier 9.  Which should be changed.  Just sayin'.

 

So a big thank you to our community for being a place where we welcome anyone who comes here.  Thank you for making a safe place for creators, artists, people who society does not have patience with, for the different, the odd, and even us villains.  We even allow vanilla heroes a place....for now.

Snarky is a middle man, pass it on 😛

[ExoGrimz]

4 hours ago, psion312 said:

 

No, it isn't. There's certainly differences, but the power system that was written by Number Six on the secret server explicitly supports legacy powerset files.

 

 

I appreciate people's effort pointing out our flaws. But that's a literal teenager, who was also warned for doing that. Unsurprisingly, so are a lot of the "edgy" users people try to point out.

 

Our policy is for the game to be treated differently than how people interact on the forum or Discord, because the game offers tools for people to block and filter words.

 

 

That's not true. The server certainly has roots in /v/, but the majority of the staff uses imageboards as a maybe once a month thing if at all. There's more users here that post on 4chan, if the responses I've seen were any indicator.

 

Our changes also aren't part of Ourodev. We contribute to Ourodev's upstream fork for bug fixes and I do code reviews, but the majority of things people talk about that we do are kept to us. There's a litany of reasons for that, but it's the same reason I don't bash Homecoming for being closed.

 

--

 

I will fully admit to being a Thunderspy developer, if it wasn't obvious, and unfortunately, could not log into my original account here due to locking myself out from phone typos - so this isn't some attempt at evading a ban. I typically try to not reply here - as I read the forums for Bug Reports, something I do with every server's public reports, and less so for drama. However, I'd prefer to clear the air on what we do and do not do. Otherwise, these threads tend to get locked over people being wholly incorrect and breaking the rules with people intent on spreading complete misinformation.

 

--

 

Personally, I don't mind that servers don't share our same opinions and people feel that this is a "safer" place. I don't feel that way - and I left partly as a result.

 

My experience was that it tended to be just as bad here, but people are better at hiding their vitriol. I also didn't find teaming any easier and ended up with the same small group of badge hunters every single time I ran something. That was on Excelsior. I'm sure people can provide their anecdotes for how they always get groups, but I didn't as someone who barely spoke in game chat more than using LFG, offering public farms, and responding to tells. The staff can confirm that with my logged messages, if they want to go digging for how some awful Thunderspy developer treats people.

 

Ultimately, the CoH community is just the insular group of cliques it has always been - starting from the old forums, to the secret server, to how people operate here. People like to pat themselves on the back for being so open, even though it's easy to see people's toxic behavior on this forum towards new players and old players alike. Yet there's a wonder why the community at large is in death throes.

 

After all that is said and done, my views on how to treat users, how to develop content, and how to treat each other didn't align with people here. And so I did my best to not be here.

The fact that you conveniently weren't able to post this on your main account leads me to question the legitimacy of your claim as a dev for the Thunderspy team

[Rumors]

I would definitely question any developer who is actively calling any given player base "toxic."  I mean, yeah, there's jerks everywhere and many insular communities definitely do feel like they are the safest, most open places to be, I am not going to argue that.  But there's a certain degree of professionalism and higher standards that developers, volunteer or not, or anyone in similar roles or positions anywhere that is expected when they are on their own platform or representing such.  So, while I know nothing of Thunderspy outside of this topic, a developer coming in here talking about how the community is dying or that other servers are more toxic or whatever definitely does not endear me towards Thunderspy, unfortunately.  While I understand you're a regular person and all, just keep in mind your position, if your claim is legit, does require more finesse in interacting with a community, whether your own or others, and does leave you more open to scrutiny and critique, whether you want it or not.

 

Not going to comment on your own experiences on Homecoming beyond the obligatory "I've not had that myself" or "things look about the same here as they do any other smaller, tight-knit community".  But again, every community has its share of jerks and and "open-minded" folk who'll gut you the moment you share an opposing opinion.

Edited June 15, 2021 by Rumors

[Naraka]

1 hour ago, Rumors said:

I would definitely question any developer who is actively calling any given player base "toxic."  I mean, yeah, there's jerks everywhere and many insular communities definitely do feel like they are the safest, most open places to be, I am not going to argue that.  But there's a certain degree of professionalism and higher standards that developers, volunteer or not, or anyone in similar roles or positions anywhere that is expected when they are on their own platform or representing such.  So, while I know nothing of Thunderspy outside of this topic, a developer coming in here talking about how the community is dying or that other servers are more toxic or whatever definitely does not endear me towards Thunderspy, unfortunately.  While I understand you're a regular person and all, just keep in mind your position, if your claim is legit, does require more finesse in interacting with a community, whether your own or others, and does leave you more open to scrutiny and critique, whether you want it or not.

 

Not going to comment on your own experiences on Homecoming beyond the obligatory "I've not had that myself" or "things look about the same here as they do any other smaller, tight-knit community".  But again, every community has its share of jerks and and "open-minded" folk who'll gut you the moment you share an opposing opinion.

 

Having expectations is reasonable but it hasn't been a wholly enforced expectation for workers to act "professional" on open public social media. Only in the last handful of years has it become customary to censor so draconian that the censorship itself causes untold animosity that terms like "toxic" are widely used to describe simply disagreeing.

 

But further still, user enforced professionalism when there is no actual accountability (no one would be getting fired or lose money or thrown in jail) seems as pompous as a power tripping volunteer dev just with less dignity.

 

tl;dr your standards aren't everyone's standard so stop pretending like you're setting the bar, of indeed you feel you are.

[ExoGrimz]

10 minutes ago, Naraka said:

 

Having expectations is reasonable but it hasn't been a wholly enforced expectation for workers to act "professional" on open public social media. Only in the last handful of years has it become customary to censor so draconian that the censorship itself causes untold animosity that terms like "toxic" are widely used to describe simply disagreeing.

 

But further still, user enforced professionalism when there is no actual accountability (no one would be getting fired or lose money or thrown in jail) seems as pompous as a power tripping volunteer dev just with less dignity.

 

tl;dr your standards aren't everyone's standard so stop pretending like you're setting the bar, of indeed you feel you are.

Well, if no one at Thunderspy is being held accountable for their actions... then why would I want to be a part of their community?

[Bionic_Flea]

Everybody gets to play on whatever server they prefer as long they follow the rules of that server.  Let's not get into a server dispute, those never end well.

[Naraka]

1 hour ago, ExoGrimz said:

Well, if no one at Thunderspy is being held accountable for their actions... then why would I want to be a part of their community?

 

Not the point I was even making.

 

As for holding people accountable, that can't be done, at least when we're talking about actual accountability besides what you personally view as such. 

 

As for being part of another community, is someone holding a gun or something?

[psilupan]

4 hours ago, ExoGrimz said:

The fact that you conveniently weren't able to post this on your main account leads me to question the legitimacy of your claim as a dev for the Thunderspy team

 

Sorry that the password system makes me wait 15 minutes, if I make a typo 3 times? Not sure what to tell you. If I was here to sockpuppet, I'm doing a miserable job of it.

 

6 hours ago, Tyrannical said:

 

There's your problem.

 

HC enforces the same policies in the forum and official discord channel as it does in game, whereas Thunderspy does not.

 

It seems convenient for Thunderspy to claim less responsibility over these channels so they can distance themselves from the toxic elements highlighted above, when they should be properly policing their community across all official platforms, so it's naïve to think that the controversy caused by these individuals are all isolated incidents that exist outside of Thunderspy's reach.

 

If you dislike the notion that these vitriolic statements have become representative of Thunderspy, then that's no fault of ours, it's the result of a dismissive approach to community management.

 

Again, I'm fine if people choose to play on other servers because they don't like our policies. I do not want Thunderspy to be HC and I'm sure the opposite is true.

 

As stated, I did not have a good experience, I don't like my messages being logged, I didn't like GMs teleporting into private instances while hidden to play "spy" - which they did since one of our GMs was a former HC GM and posted the Discord messages. It took them apparently being told, "Uh, probably not a good idea to act on things you caught people doing in private," instead of having the sense to know that.

 

Plus, as someone who is gay and a "lefty" in the Thunderspy group, I find knowing who doesn't like me far easier to swallow than people keeping their feelings in private. And frankly, I subscribe to the proven idea that people are far more likely to accept differing ideas and reasoning when they're not sequestered away from everyone or have those ideas shouted at them. Not to say that I don't respond to some members that have posted conspiracy theories with sarcasm, "debunk" links, and "Are you actually that stupid?" bewilderment.

 

Ultimately, I am attempting to be the change that I want to see in that community without taking away what fundamentally makes it - which is the right to express those ideas. And I think anyone trying to take those away because of some made up idea of "accountability" is actively making the situation worse.

 

Also, no, Discord's block system is so awful that it may as well not exist when you end up with a giant bar telling you there's blocked messages. Hardly comparable to not seeing them at all.

 

[Alchemystic]

2 hours ago, psilupan said:

Ultimately, I am attempting to be the change that I want to see in that community without taking away what fundamentally makes it - which is the right to express those ideas. And I think anyone trying to take those away because of some made up idea of "accountability" is actively making the situation worse.

 

How do you expect to see changes in the community if nobody steps up to moderate it?

 

Or better yet, how do you expect to change the community by perpetuating the animosity towards ours?

 

As for accountability, nobody is using that to take away your right to express yourself, quite the opposite. People are saying that as a developer, you are accountable for how the community of Thunderspy expresses itself. You've dismissed these toxic individuals as being "literal teenagers" or "edgy users", which says to me you're not taking these matters seriously, and are behaving as if it's not your responsibility to moderate them beyond a simple slap on the wrist. Nothing's going to change if Thunderspy continues to refuse accountability for its userbase, or feigns that there's no association between the game and the discord/forum, or disingenuously declares other servers as being no better. 

 

You might not agree with HC's policies, but at least they make efforts to enforce them.

 

 

Edited June 15, 2021 by Tyrannical

[ExoGrimz]

1 hour ago, Naraka said:

 

As for being part of another community, is someone holding a gun or something?

I could ask you the same thing... considering who are still trying to argue about a server's policies... on said server's forum site