Poll: How do you feel about knockback?

[ironjoe]

There have been many topics on this but limited polling. Adding another and seeing outcome here.

Edited July 13, 2021 by ironjoe
Added choices by request.

[incantation]

I have a character called Knock Back and he is all knock back based.  

Leave it as it.  

[ExoticRawr]

Knockback is part and parcel of the super hero genre. As such the original Devs did a fine job setting up certain powers with knockback, others with knockdown. Learning to use KB to you/your team's advantage is not easy, but it is doable. Plus there's plenty of crafted enhancements that can change KB to KD. No need to change it.

[SwitchFade]

Erm, there is a significant amount of survey bias here, which would render the data flawed. Sorry.

 

Revamping the questionnaire would help significantly, else the results here would be invalid.

[Koopak]

This poll has issues, in particular the option: "Players should be able to toggle it as wanted/needed." is extremely vague and could be read as exactly how things are now, which may or may not be your intent but given your expressed opinions elsewhere i assume its not. As SwitchFade mentioned, this questionnaire needs more refinement to be useful and in the end you will only get the small subset of people who read the forums and specifically the suggestions sub forum so that needs to be considered.

[Greycat]

Yeah. I'd call this somewhat problematic, in general. Plus, as someone who likes and uses knockback, I had to modify this to "player" knockback when I answered, as I'd honestly answer differently for players vs pets vs NPCs.

 

Honestly, the most relevant data here is "How many people voted for each answer." And that doesn't even really show the total number of people interested in the poll, as people can vote for multiple answers, so it's not really worth much to know.

[The Scandinavian]

The more the better !

[ironjoe]

In the related discussion on this forum another user pointed to an earlier poll as their example of why they said knockback was not disliked by the majority of players. That poll had a biased title so I used it's question title and answers. The only addition I have made were by request for the neutral options. I also left it the same multiple answer format as the poll the individual pointed out. I can go back and manually count positive, love, and hate answers. 

[sole]

I'd like to see it as a Null the Gull type of option with running speed and speed boost. It would be great if you could turn it off per power. As someone who has played a Energy/Energy Blaster since launch I love my knockback when soloing and I just don't use certain powers when on team like Energy Torrent. If I could switch that and explosive blast to knockdown it would allow me to use those in team situations without the risk of raising the ire of my teammates

[Super Atom]

You'll never make much headway on the forums about Knockback. Discord and in game are very different sets of vocal individuals, many who discuss stuff exclusively on the discord view the forums very negatively and a lot of in-game discussions view both very negatively. It'll never be possible to accurately show how the real majority feels about anything just here on the forums.

 

tl;dr The forums is a very vocal minority and does not actually reflect the majority's opinions.

[captkurt]

I usually add the knockdown proc.   But would be cool if you could control it a bit more.   Switch around between Back, Up, Down, Off...

[Naraka]

I hate public polls.  Your data is skewed from the beginning because people can see the results of the poll in real time...that's a no no.

[SwitchFade]

Here's some ways to improve the quality, and remove bias. Try this type of language...

 

Example questions

 

When on teams I feel knock back is

 

-Proactive

-Reactive

-compatible

-practical

-collaborative

 

When solo, I feel knock back is

 

-Situational

-universal

-productive

-avoidable

 

When using knock back I feel

 

-aware

-compliant

-involved

-removed

-curious

 

Changing knock back would make me feel

 

-thoughtful

-overwhelmed

-ambivalent

-ready

-stretched

What's knock back?

 

 

Allow multiple selections per questions, and start with a title like, "powers: effects and results - has knock back happened? A poll, need help! Please answer so we can all learn together!"

 

Then publish the results and discuss with many analyzing data.

 

That would get you on the right track.

[LadyLuck]

KB can be used effectively but it takes some skill and awareness.

It's annoying to have a mob spread apart with someone who just knocks them around.

I tend to put a KB>KD enhancement in any AOE that does KB for that reason.

However, I'll keep KB on a singular attack to help knock a mob away if they're aggroing on a squishy.

 

 

[golstat2003]

KB is fine as is. We have IOs to deal with it, for anyone who does not like it.

[incantation]

4 hours ago, golstat2003 said:

KB is fine as is. We have IOs to deal with it, for anyone who does not like it.

Agreed.  It's been here since 2004.  Everyone will live.       lol

[TheZag]

My super hero needs to toss villians across the room.  This is the correct procedure when apprehending a suspect.

[Phytoplankton]

My main is a blapper, it uses knock back to survive.

[0th Power]

16 hours ago, incantation said:

I have a character called Knock Back and he is all knock back based.  

Leave it as it.  

I have admiral knockback

[Marbing]

17 hours ago, incantation said:

I have a character called Knock Back and he is all knock back based.  
 

I think I know you.

[Bill Z Bubba]

13 hours ago, golstat2003 said:

KB is fine as is. We have IOs to deal with it, for anyone who does not like it.

 

8 hours ago, incantation said:

Agreed.  It's been here since 2004.  Everyone will live.       lol

 

And tanks were fine and everybody lived them them, too, right? Blasters were fine for ages? Claws was fine before the animation overhaul? SR was just great after ED happened, we didn't need the scaling resists!

 

KB is annoying. Repel is worse. Everyone talks about the skills needed to use it properly and yet I NEVER see it "used properly." Didn't before the snap, don't now. It's just chaos that slows a team down. Funny to watch from time to time? Sure.

 

But having to always stick the KB->KD proc in shockwave means I'm missing out on something actually useful in its place. Avoiding my PB and Nrg Blast characters for the same but compounded issue is also annoying.

I do not grok why anyone would actually be against leveling the playing field slotting-wise and allow for a Null the Gull option to turn all KB attacks into KD.

[Marbing]

Bottom line: there are A LOT of players that use KB incorrectly.  HOWEVER, I have seen players use it correctly and actually strategically. I wouldn't want to make a change that would punish players that know how to use it and like to use it.

 

Making it an option isn't a bad idea, hence why we already have that with Sudden Acceleration (SA). But I don't know if I like the global option because that is all or nothing, thus possibly giving for too much build flexibility. What SA already gives you is the ability to pick and choose which powers have it and which don't. I do get the argument that this puts KB heavy powersets at a disadvantage proc/IO-set wise, but there are some powers out there that go from situational to OP with one single KB > KD enhancement (*cough* BONFIRE *cough*) so we do need to keep that in mind. Allowing sets like that the build freedom to have all of their powers suddenly do KD instead of KB would just make them more powerful. There are quite a few powers that get a massive benefit from a single SA.

 

So, respectfully, I would have to say keep it how it is. As annoying as KB is, and trust me when used wrong it is infuriating!! I can't tell you how many times I have jumped into a group, hit Soul Drain, got a massive +dmg buff, and before my Psychic Wail could go off.... some turd jumps in and blows everything out of range... UUGGGHHHH! What a waste...

I would like a solution for this, but I don't know if global KB > KD is that solution. Maybe the best solution is stopping in those moments to point out when KB is being used incorrectly and why it is? Maybe then offering using SA as advice for that player in the future? IDK... That can be tedious as well, I know that I usually stop and tell a player how their KB messed up our teams overall DPS and often times gave the enemy a huge benefit. I sometimes get appreciation, and sometimes I am met with hostility... *sigh*.

 

Maybe instead of a global KB > KD you could have a global KB reduction? Reducing the distance a KB power would actually knock a target? This would probably turn SOME powers into KD but not all. But it would help a little with the giant scattering some of the bigger KB powers have and instead make them only a minor scatter. Again, IDK, just a thought as I was typing... and may not even be possible...

Edited July 14, 2021 by th0ughtGun

[SwitchFade]

I think KB and repel are great.

[SwitchFade]

Just now, SwitchFade said:

I think KB and repel are great.

I think KB and repel are not great

[golstat2003]

2 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

 

And tanks were fine and everybody lived them them, too, right? Blasters were fine for ages? Claws was fine before the animation overhaul? SR was just great after ED happened, we didn't need the scaling resists!

 

KB is annoying. Repel is worse. Everyone talks about the skills needed to use it properly and yet I NEVER see it "used properly." Didn't before the snap, don't now. It's just chaos that slows a team down. Funny to watch from time to time? Sure.

 

But having to always stick the KB->KD proc in shockwave means I'm missing out on something actually useful in its place. Avoiding my PB and Nrg Blast characters for the same but compounded issue is also annoying.

I do not grok why anyone would actually be against leveling the playing field slotting-wise and allow for a Null the Gull option to turn all KB attacks into KD.

 

They can do it with better IOs for KB--> KD. KB is a part of the game.

 

EDIT: See this great suggestion.

 

Edited July 14, 2021 by golstat2003