Nerf Level Shifts

[Wavicle]

I recommend changing the way Level Shifts and Incarnate Shifts from Incarnate Powers work.

My suggestion:

 

Level Shifts (from the Alpha Slot) should work in all Incarnate content (including Trials, Arcs, TinPex, and Dark Astoria), but NOT function in other content (ITF, Radio Missions, etc).

 

Incarnate Shifts (from the Lore and Destiny slots) should ONLY function in Incarnate Trials and should be non-functional in TinPex and DA and regular content.


Probably this will never be done, but I really think this would improve the 45+ game.

[DreadShinobi]

Placing long overdue signage right here.

[skoryy]

Quit having fun, everyone.

[Luminara]

Take your Alpha enhancement out of the slot and require your teammates to do the same.  That's a choice that you can make, and that you can revert that later.  A game-wide disabling of the level shift outside of Incarnate content is not a choice, and it can't be reverted unless the HC team rolls it back.

 

/jranger

[Wavicle]

3 minutes ago, Luminara said:

Take your Alpha enhancement out of the slot and require your teammates to do the same.  That's a choice that you can make, and that you can revert that later.  A game-wide disabling of the level shift outside of Incarnate content is not a choice, and it can't be reverted unless the HC team rolls it back.

 

/jranger

 

The Alpha slot does a lot more than JUST the level shift. Everyone having Alphas is fine. It's really the level shifts that break the game at the high levels. I think my suggestion would be good for the game overall.

But that said, I would happily settle for an advanced difficulty setting that lets us custom disable Level shifts and/or Incarnate shifts for my team or league.

Edited September 29, 2021 by Wavicle

[Caulderone]

27 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

Level Shifts (from the Alpha Slot) should work in all Incarnate content (including Trials, Arcs, TinPex, and Dark Astoria), but NOT function in other content (ITF, Radio Missions, etc).

 

Incarnate Shifts (from the Lore and Destiny slots) should ONLY function in Incarnate Trials and should be non-functional in TinPex and DA and regular content.

 

I'm all for it.  It gives back actual +4 regular content from 45-50 without having to remove Alpha.

[Mezmera]

Or maybe we can get some actual hard content for these level shifts that Going Rogue was supposed to be introducing...

 

I'd like to see what they finally have cooking up before we go blaming peoples grandmas for the troubles in the game.  

[krj12]

I have no problem with having some kind of TF setting that disabled incarnate shifts,  but just unilaterally disabling it across the board - unsigned.

[agentx5]

1 hour ago, Mezmera said:

Or maybe we can get some actual hard content for these level shifts that Going Rogue was supposed to be introducing...

 

I'd like to see what they finally have cooking up before we go blaming peoples grandmas for the troubles in the game.  

 

There are some really hard AE mission out there if you want that.  No need to make that a must-have for incarnate content.  Not everyone is into hardcore mode.  Some are though.  For me it depends on the mood I'm in, if I just want to mess around and relax, or if I'm in the mood for a hard challenge.

 

Also there's challenges you can implement on yourself, such as completing a mission like an ITF on +4/x8 with 0 deaths.  And if you die, you have to quit the task force and start over.  Trust me, it's not as easy as it sounds, one mistake and you'll have to start over.  And if that's too easy for you, then try something with those settings with a LGTF or Kahn TF.

[Coyotedancer]

Nope.

You can unequip the Incarnate toys if you don't want to use the shifts.

[Luminara]

16 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

The Alpha slot does a lot more than JUST the level shift.

 

Indeed, but the other aspects of Alpha enhancements can have profound effects on characters which are just as impactful as +1 level.  Going from struggling to manage endurance to never having to glance at the bar again is a real game-changer, for example, and completely unrelated to the level shift despite being functionally attached to it in the rare and very rare tiers.  Being 50+1 makes defeating critters easier, but having a pile Recharge Reduction applied globally also makes defeating critters easier, and, again, they're a package deal on Alpha enhancements.  Yes, critters are going to miss more frequently when you're +1, but 4.5-5% extra Defense (from Agility) is also causing them to miss more frequently.

 

The +1 is not the only function of the Alpha slot making your end-game experience different, and specifically targeting that +1 is like insisting that the frosting on the cake is fine, it's just the rosettes, which are made of the same frosting, that you object to and would like removed... from everyone's cake, because, again, you think we'd all be better off without them.

 

1 hour ago, Wavicle said:

I think my suggestion would be good for the game overall.

 

It abrogates the freedom to choose that already exists and ignores the reality of the other aspects of the Alpha slot being just as responsible for giving players a feeling of being over-powered.  Taking away peoples' ability to make that choice isn't a solution, and arbitrarily denying them the level shift because you don't want to exercise your ability to make that choice isn't good, it's fascism.

 

30 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

But that said, I would happily settle for an advanced difficulty setting that lets us custom disable Level shifts and/or Incarnate shifts for my team or league.

 

That would be perfectly acceptable.

[Mezmera]

3 hours ago, agentx5 said:

 

There are some really hard AE mission out there if you want that.  No need to make that a must-have for incarnate content.  Not everyone is into hardcore mode.  Some are though.  For me it depends on the mood I'm in, if I just want to mess around and relax, or if I'm in the mood for a hard challenge.

 

Also there's challenges you can implement on yourself, such as completing a mission like an ITF on +4/x8 with 0 deaths.  And if you die, you have to quit the task force and start over.  Trust me, it's not as easy as it sounds, one mistake and you'll have to start over.  And if that's too easy for you, then try something with those settings with a LGTF or Kahn TF.

 

Been there done that.  We need fresh creative content that the devs have access to create.  

[BrandX]

5 hours ago, Wavicle said:

 

The Alpha slot does a lot more than JUST the level shift. Everyone having Alphas is fine. It's really the level shifts that break the game at the high levels. I think my suggestion would be good for the game overall.

But that said, I would happily settle for an advanced difficulty setting that lets us custom disable Level shifts and/or Incarnate shifts for my team or league.

 

You could downgrade those Incarnate abilities to levels that don't have the incarnate shift.

[DreadShinobi]

Here is a different perspective: 

 

Removing the universal level shift from the alpha slot isn't a nerf - it is correcting a mistake that should have never made it to live. 

 

The presence of the alpha level shift in previously endgame content - itf, stf, rsf, kahn, cuda, lgtf, etc took away from all of those experiences and none of those tasks were designed with level shifts in mind. Neither was AE farming lol. Level shift breaks pre-existing content more than anything. The attribute boost from the alpha slot is great, but not the trivialization issue with the level shift.

 

Also remember that when the alpha slot was introduced it took much more time to get your t3 alpha and acquire your level shift. There were no incarnate threads - only shards. Typically you had to do those lvl 50 tasks without a level shift on that character to unlock the components. Now you can be lvl 50+1 within moments of hitting 50.

Edited September 30, 2021 by DreadShinobi

[skoryy]

6 hours ago, DreadShinobi said:

Removing the universal level shift from the alpha slot isn't a nerf - it is correcting a mistake that should have never made it to live. 

 

Yes, its true, having fun was a mistake.  We apologize for the error and will strive to provide more Wildstar-esque experiences in the future.

[ZacKing]

No thanks.  Unslot your incarnate stuff and have others on your team do the same and play to your hearts content.  You get to play the way you want and others can play the way they want.  win win for everyone.  

 

13 hours ago, Wavicle said:

 I think my suggestion would be good for the game overall.

 

You thought wrong.

 

 

[DreadShinobi]

2 minutes ago, skoryy said:

 

Yes, its true, having fun was a mistake.  We apologize for the error and will strive to provide more Wildstar-esque experiences in the future.

Fighting -1 critters and lowering the standard available difficulty from +4 to +3 is your version of fun? Que es esto? 🤐 

 

CoH is great at making you feel super. All throughout the game. You know what was more fun for me before level shifts existed? LRSF. STF. LGTF. ITF. et all lvl 50 content. I feel "less super" at lvl 51 because it takes away challenge from the game. Level shifts are massive. I feel a lower sense of accomplishment completing the LRSF for example than I did prior to the tirade of power creep. I have some fond memories around completing some of these tasks when they were still balanced in difficulty. Looking at level shifts to address power creep takes nothing away from the flavor picks you can find in alpha/interface/judgment/lore/destiny/hybrid. 

[skoryy]

3 minutes ago, DreadShinobi said:

Fighting -1 critters and lowering the standard available difficulty from +4 to +3 is your version of fun? Que es esto? 🤐 

 

Yes, yes it is.  For me and plenty of other players given Homecoming's numbers.

 

And you and the rest of your Quit Having Fun buddies know it.  Which is why we get these same posts over and over and over and over and over again.

[DreadShinobi]

3 minutes ago, skoryy said:

 

Yes, yes it is.  For me and plenty of other players given Homecoming's numbers.

 

And you and the rest of your Quit Having Fun buddies know it.  Which is why we get these same posts over and over and over and over and over again.

Getting a bit hostile now aren't ya?

[skoryy]

Just now, DreadShinobi said:

Getting a bit hostile now aren't ya?

 

I'm old and tired and I get enough horse hockey in real life.

[DreadShinobi]

1 minute ago, skoryy said:

 

I'm old and tired and I get enough horse hockey in real life.

 

Concerning this forum... - Suggestions & Feedback - Homecoming (homecomingservers.com)

[Luminara]

5 hours ago, DreadShinobi said:

Removing the universal level shift from the alpha slot isn't a nerf - it is correcting a mistake that should have never made it to live.

 

Do you have a design document which no-one else has ever seen?  No?  Then that's an opinion.  Unsupported, and contrary to the existing evidence, no less.

 

6 hours ago, DreadShinobi said:

The presence of the alpha level shift in previously endgame content - itf, stf, rsf, kahn, cuda, lgtf, etc took away from all of those experiences and none of those tasks were designed with level shifts in mind.

 

The presence of levels 41-50 in the previous end-game content took away from all of those experiences and none of those tasks were designed with those levels in mind.

 

Progression isn't always smooth, but it's better than stagnation.

 

6 hours ago, DreadShinobi said:

The attribute boost from the alpha slot is great, but not the trivialization issue with the level shift.

 

 

6 hours ago, DreadShinobi said:

Also remember that when the alpha slot was introduced it took much more time to get your t3 alpha and acquire your level shift. There were no incarnate threads - only shards. Typically you had to do those lvl 50 tasks without a level shift on that character to unlock the components.

 

No-one's twisting anyone's arm to force them to push to T3 Alpha immediately.  That's the player's choice.  The player is doing that.  The player chooses to mail him/herself Empyrean merits so he/she can blitz through the Alpha process, or to run Heather Townsend's arc ten times in under an hour, or whatever their preferred method is.  If anyone doesn't want to churn through Alpha tiers at breakneck speed, then they don't have churn through Alpha tiers at breakneck speed.  It's their choice.  No-one has to dash straight to T3 Alpha, because nothing in the game forces the player to do so.  And nothing in the game requires the player to use that Alpha enhancement in regular content.  That is also a choice.

Furthermore, once you arrived at T3 on the original servers, the exact same situation was in effect.  You apply some meaning to the existence of a couple of weeks of grinding, but there was none.  Whether it takes you a year to hit T3 Alpha, or a couple of minutes, the end result is identical.  You're still +1 in the end.  The problem is not, in fact, the +1, it's that there's no longer a large and well-funded development team continually working on additional content to make use of that +1, but that doesn't make the +1 itself a problem because it's optional.  It may not be the option that you prefer, but it is an option and you do have the freedom to utilize it.

 

Choices have consequences.  Want the T3/T4 Alpha boosts?  Slot the enhancement and deal with the +1 level.  Don't want the +1 level?  Remove the enhancement and deal with the loss of the boosts.  Want limitations applied to everyone so you don't have to make choices and accept consequences?  Start your own server and Mussolini it up.

 

[arcane]

I’d be fine with this suggestion, but this is about as likely to happen as a government program being discontinued. Reactions will be akin to “millions will die”.

[arcane]

On another note, this whole “as long as the player technically has a choice to not be overpowered, all overpowered-ness is ok and good” argument is bizarre. Like that’s ever been how game design works...

[DreadShinobi]

1 minute ago, arcane said:

On another note, this whole “as long as the player technically has a choice to not be overpowered, all overpowered-ness is ok and good” argument is bizarre. Like that’s ever been how game design works...

This.