Focused Feedback: Dr. Aeon Strike Force

[EmperorSteele]

@BurtHutt Yes, this TF is VERY verbose. The very first NPC you encounter has a 7 or 8 page dialogue box... and then you take them hostage and they make comments throughout the mission (or you can skip it and attack, making them run away instead).

 

Dr. Aeon also makes mid-mission comments via caption boxes, and there are several bosses who quip at you at 75, 50, and 25% health, random things you can click to read a description or a bit of lore or a joke, as well as random NPCs saying random stuff to one another as you approach.

 

And I'm 50/50 on it because while there is a LOT to read (and a lot that can be missed), it's all really good. However, the ASF really is the most wordy piece of content in the game, so casually blasting through means you're not gonna have any idea what's going on. If the writing wasn't as good as it is, it would feel really obnoxious.

 

My suggestion would be to duo or trio this with one or two others, with the understanding that you'll take your time to read everything, and expect to take 2-3 hours (I wouldn't advise soloing it). After that, you can join normal 8-mans and speed through and you'll still know what's going on. However, know that there are different ways to solve the different puzzles, and some dialogue trees you may miss the first time around, so maybe do a couple "read everything" runs to know what's going on.

Edited November 12, 2021 by EmperorSteele
Grammar

[BurtHutt]

2 hours ago, EmperorSteele said:

@BurtHutt Yes, this TF is VERY verbose. The very first NPC you encounter has a 7 or 8 page dialogue box... and then you take them hostage and they make comments throughout the mission (or you can skip it and attack, making them run away instead).

 

Dr. Aeon also makes mid-mission comments via caption boxes, and there are several bosses who quip at you at 75, 50, and 25% health, random things you can click to read a description or a bit of lore or a joke, as well as random NPCs saying random stuff to one another as you approach.

 

And I'm 50/50 on it because while there is a LOT to read (and a lot that can be missed), it's all really good. However, the ASF really is the most wordy piece of content in the game, so casually blasting through means you're not gonna have any idea what's going on. If the writing wasn't as good as it is, it would feel really obnoxious.

 

My suggestion would be to duo or trio this with one or two others, with the understanding that you'll take your time to read everything, and expect to take 2-3 hours (I wouldn't advise soloing it). After that, you can join normal 8-mans and speed through and you'll still know what's going on. However, know that there are different ways to solve the different puzzles, and some dialogue trees you may miss the first time around, so maybe do a couple "read everything" runs to know what's going on.

Thanks for this. I'm a bit disappointed that we'll have to try and read a ton of material when that isn't usually feasible in 8 toon teams and/or speed teams and/or those who want to move along quickly.

[Dracses]

Cap Au Diable phasing:

 - So there is a minor thing, but upon acceptance of the "Attack Langston Corp HQ" mission of the SF, Mr. Rodney and Golden Roller understandably disappear from the game world. I know why considering their role in the strike force, but after the strike force's completion there is no player state update to add Rodney/Roller back into the game world. The only way to get them back is to run one of their arcs from Ouroboros which makes the phase persist at least until you run Dr. Aeon SF again.

 

Like I said, it's a minor thing but having the NPCs disappear from the game world takes away some of the atmosphere even in the lightest of ways is just not ideal in my eyes. It's fixable, yes, but in a roundabout way. I don't know how these things are coded in the slightest but would it be too much to implement a phase updater on the completion of the SF so that it adds them back to Cap Au Diable?

[Mezmera]

5 minutes ago, Dracses said:

Cap Au Diable phasing:

 - So there is a minor thing, but upon acceptance of the "Attack Langston Corp HQ" mission of the SF, Mr. Rodney and Golden Roller understandably disappear from the game world. I know why considering their role in the strike force, but after the strike force's completion there is no player state update to add Rodney/Roller back into the game world. The only way to get them back is to run one of their arcs from Ouroboros which makes the phase persist at least until you run Dr. Aeon SF again.

 

Like I said, it's a minor thing but having the NPCs disappear from the game world takes away some of the atmosphere even in the lightest of ways is just not ideal in my eyes. It's fixable, yes, but in a roundabout way. I don't know how these things are coded in the slightest but would it be too much to implement a phase updater on the completion of the SF so that it adds them back to Cap Au Diable?

 

I can't remember those arcs but if those two are sub 35 I'd bet that it's intentional to make it feel like your actions caused the environment to change and/or for something maybe coming later on.  Good observation though but it may be intentional lore to your environment.  

[Dracses]

1 minute ago, Mezmera said:

 

I can't remember those arcs but if those two are sub 35 I'd bet that it's intentional to make it feel like your actions caused the environment to change and/or for something maybe coming later on.  Good observation though but it may be intentional lore to your environment.  

They are, they're in the 15-19 range actually. I did a test to see if it was the SF or natural leveling that caused the phase issue as well. I leveled from 1 to 35 (which I believe is the minimum for Aeon SF?) and they remained, then leveled all the way to 50 and then remained. It's purely running the SF itself that causes this phase to the player.

 

It's a pedantic thing on my part, I've been a fan of the Gold Brickers since I was 10, they were one of the things I remembered most when I had to quit playing forever and ever ago so I just want my boys to keep their physical rep up in the game world! I understand the "player actions" thing, especially when it comes to Roller's car. The question becomes "If you destroyed his car, how does he get a new one?" I have no answer for that! But even if this doesn't get changed, I can still bring em' back with Oro trickery.

 

Honestly with Rodney and Roller getting the upgrades they got, plus the new additions and the Brickers getting a 50+ makeover, I could see some new arcs revolving around them and the aftermath of the Aeon SF. If the new Brickers get ported AE I know I sure as hell am gonna use them that's for sure.

[Dracses]

Writing:
I solo'd the SF to completion as well, and I tend to agree with those that are bringing up the sheer immensity of dialogue and reading material available to you. I think for future content releases it would be wise to keep the "writer's flex" in check. I'm a (aspiring) writer myself and know how it feels to want to "wow" people with my work but this is also a fairly fast-paced game where you casually walk into a building and stampede over 300 enemies. For people that want to enjoy the writing, they're gonna get left behind in pugs to which leaves you to having to do it with friends only or even alone if you don't have any friends.

 

I'm not saying a huge re-write is in order, it's sort've fine where it is I guess, but things could be about 50% more concise. Look to the other arcs in the game (I do not count Praetoria arcs, since they are written like a single player RPG) to see how the original writers conveyed the story they wanted in tandem with what you experienced mid-mission, via clues or enemy dialogue or more! It's no masterclass in writing by any means but it won't leave people feeling confused or bewildered by the sheer volume of text thrown the players away. Just my two cents.

 

edit: Forgot to mention this take: The writing works completely fine if it was a regular story arc and not a Strike Force. But as it is, those two things are very different. 

Edited November 12, 2021 by Dracses

[Mezmera]

20 minutes ago, Dracses said:

It's a pedantic thing on my part, I've been a fan of the Gold Brickers since I was 10, they were one of the things I remembered most when I had to quit playing forever and ever ago so I just want my boys to keep their physical rep up in the game world! I understand the "player actions" thing, especially when it comes to Roller's car.

 

I think your avatar gave that away.  😜

 

I bet they have plans coming for them honestly.  That's why I think they made it so that when you run that SF it has an impact on your environment thereafter.  This release seems right up your alley.  

 

Edit: 

I'll defend them on the writing on this.  It is as you say there's a good deal written but it's not slowing you down in any way but one run to where you'll like to follow along with the story.  How many times have people run the other SF's now?  You get the gist of the story after the first detailed play through and then it's back to all about playing the game and smashing stuff.  

 

Honestly I don't see it being overwritten at all, this coming from someone who is fine with the story written with a bunch of grunting.  Anyone can just bash their way through the SF, there's nothing impeding you from doing so once you know the story and it'll only be one time to do that if you're so keen.   

Edited November 12, 2021 by Mezmera

[Apparition]

There is one issue with Mr. Rodney being phased out.  He has cape and aura missions that go to level 50.  If you have not done them prior to completing the ASF, you can no longer do so naturally.  Now I realize that few people run the cape and aura missions, and that they’re still available via Ouroboros Flashback, but it’s still an issue for those who like to do everything “naturally.”

[reisma]

Good:

1. I like some of the map design.
2. Some of the boss fights are cool.
3. The premise is neat.
4. The cutscenes are cool.
5. Using the on-screen captions is nice because everyone on a team can see them.

Bad

1. Using interactable NPCs instead of glowies for things like the hamidon things we have to drain energy from.  It's easy to lose track of which ones have been drained.
2. Too much text that is unlikely to be read, at least more than once.  After everyone becomes accustomed, it's a slog to click through the dialog, especially Becky on the very first mission.
3. Interacting with NPCs in every mission to have conversations slows the pace of the Strike Force.
4. How accessible is all of the text from these NPCs so that the entire team can read the interactions and thus know what's going on?

This really begs to be a story arc so that the text can be savored by players able to sit down and enjoy it.

 

[Faultline]

On 11/12/2021 at 7:54 PM, Apparition said:

There is one issue with Mr. Rodney being phased out.  He has cape and aura missions that go to level 50.  If you have not done them prior to completing the ASF, you can no longer do so naturally.  Now I realize that few people run the cape and aura missions, and that they’re still available via Ouroboros Flashback, but it’s still an issue for those who like to do everything “naturally.”

 

You can call him. Anticipating this problem, Rodney now gets a cellphone on first interaction. Phasing doesn't affect the cellphone.

[Carnifax]

Let's play a game of "At what point in the TF did the game decide to murder Carni".

 

 

Those explody guys be nasty. 30,000 damage in one second on a tank with capped resists (I think a few of them decided to pop at the same time).

 

Overall a good SF with some total madness in it. We did it as as 8 man, +4*8 with Diff 1 set for the EB spawns.

 

Was looking to see if there were any unresistable -Res debuffs floating around but didn't register them.

 

Here's my parsed combat log for the TF. https://www.carnifax.org/?uuid=10168d8f-99bf-4cc8-b7f1-46304a0a62df

Edited November 14, 2021 by Carnifax

[Carnifax]

So how does Power Core Meltdown work? I grepped out all the mentions of it from my Combat Log but don't really get it? ToHit rolls and damage seem mins apart. 

 

2021-11-13 16:29:46 Golden Brickernaut MISSES! Power Core Meltdown power had a 84.50% chance to hit, but rolled a 93.08.
2021-11-13 16:30:52 Golden Brickernaut HITS you! Power Core Meltdown power had a 95.00% chance to hit and rolled a 72.30.
2021-11-13 16:33:03 Golden Brickernaut hits you with their Power Core Meltdown for 1800.87 points of Energy damage.
2021-11-13 16:33:03 Golden Brickernaut hits you with their Power Core Meltdown for 1800.87 points of Fire damage.
2021-11-13 16:33:03 Golden Brickernaut knocks you off your feet with their Power Core Meltdown!
2021-11-13 16:33:03 Golden Brickernaut HITS you! Power Core Meltdown power had a 95.00% chance to hit and rolled a 79.92.
2021-11-13 16:33:03 Golden Brickernaut hits you with their Power Core Meltdown for 27013.1 points of Energy damage over time.
2021-11-13 16:52:13 Golden Brickernaut HITS you! Power Core Meltdown power had a 84.50% chance to hit and rolled a 41.57.
2021-11-13 16:52:20 Golden Brickernaut HITS you! Power Core Meltdown power had a 95.00% chance to hit and rolled a 54.87.

[Cobalt Arachne]

8 minutes ago, Carnifax said:

So how does Power Core Meltdown work? I grepped out all the mentions of it from my Combat Log but don't really get it? ToHit rolls and damage seem mins apart. 

 

2021-11-13 16:29:46 Golden Brickernaut MISSES! Power Core Meltdown power had a 84.50% chance to hit, but rolled a 93.08.
2021-11-13 16:30:52 Golden Brickernaut HITS you! Power Core Meltdown power had a 95.00% chance to hit and rolled a 72.30.
2021-11-13 16:33:03 Golden Brickernaut hits you with their Power Core Meltdown for 1800.87 points of Energy damage.
2021-11-13 16:33:03 Golden Brickernaut hits you with their Power Core Meltdown for 1800.87 points of Fire damage.
2021-11-13 16:33:03 Golden Brickernaut knocks you off your feet with their Power Core Meltdown!
2021-11-13 16:33:03 Golden Brickernaut HITS you! Power Core Meltdown power had a 95.00% chance to hit and rolled a 79.92.
2021-11-13 16:33:03 Golden Brickernaut hits you with their Power Core Meltdown for 27013.1 points of Energy damage over time.
2021-11-13 16:52:13 Golden Brickernaut HITS you! Power Core Meltdown power had a 84.50% chance to hit and rolled a 41.57.
2021-11-13 16:52:20 Golden Brickernaut HITS you! Power Core Meltdown power had a 95.00% chance to hit and rolled a 54.87.

It'll be adjusted next build, but right now it has a x10 base accuracy modifier, which means it's almost guaranteed to hit you. It does a three-tick damage hit of 5-digit damage, that's basically guaranteed to kill anybody it hits.

Golden Brickernauts are vulnerable to psionic damage, confuse, containment, phase, and teleport while counting down. The idea is you either break line of sight, kill them fast enough that they don't have a chance to explode, kill them during the countdown with psionic damage, or use one of the vulnerabilities to contain the blast.

Next build it will just auto-hit you if you're in-range when they explode; This eliminates the 5% chance that you set-up everything perfectly for the 'Unfriendly Fire' badge against Zoe and then have it fail on a 5% chance.

As I previously mentioned, we aren't using auto-hit anywhere as means to mitigate defense to create artificial difficulty, but telegraphed attacks that give you the chance to respond appropriately and completely nullify them will auto-hit if you don't move or react to them at all.

[EmperorSteele]

So, when you say "break line of sight", does that mean someone 80 feet away but with a clear view will die, but someone around a corner 5 feet away won't? Or is there a finite blast radius?

[Cobalt Arachne]

33 minutes ago, EmperorSteele said:

So, when you say "break line of sight", does that mean someone 80 feet away but with a clear view will die, but someone around a corner 5 feet away won't? Or is there a finite blast radius?

The Golden Brickernaut self-destruct explosion's range is 40 feet; But a warning indicator showing you exactly where that is was intentionally excluded, as the design intent was to break line of sight for surefire survival. 

If you've got the moxie to eyeball 40 feet in-game and stand outside of it to avoid the explosion, you certainly can! 😄

[Carnifax]

1 hour ago, Cobalt Arachne said:

It'll be adjusted next build, but right now it has a x10 base accuracy modifier, which means it's almost guaranteed to hit you. It does a three-tick damage hit of 5-digit damage, that's basically guaranteed to kill anybody it hits.

So why did it say it hit me at 16:29:46 and 16:30:52 but I didn't take damage? Is there a "Get out" delay of X seconds before the actual boom and someone killed them or I got out of the way (probably the 1st one since it is me). 

[Cobalt Arachne]

10 minutes ago, Carnifax said:

So why did it say it hit me at 16:29:46 and 16:30:52 but I didn't take damage? Is there a "Get out" delay of X seconds before the actual boom and someone killed them or I got out of the way (probably the 1st one since it is me). 

Not sure on that one... There are two powers at work, the one that counts down, and the explosion that fires at 0. The explosion power should be a one-time to-hit check, the individual elements within the power shouldn't be rolling separate checks if they are.

My guess is any weirdness like that will be ironed out when it just auto-hits if you're within range when the explosion goes off vs. using a to-hit roll.

[Vanden]

3 hours ago, Cobalt Arachne said:

If you've got the moxie to eyeball 40 feet in-game and stand outside of it to avoid the explosion, you certainly can! 😄

 

How difficult do you want that to be, exactly? Only asking because I still hope distance to target will someday be added to the Target window.

[oedipus_tex]

 

6 hours ago, Cobalt Arachne said:

As I previously mentioned, we aren't using auto-hit anywhere as means to mitigate defense to create artificial difficulty, but telegraphed attacks that give you the chance to respond appropriately and completely nullify them will auto-hit if you don't move or react to them at all.

 

 

This is great.  Thanks for sharing your philosophy on this. 

 

 

[Cobalt Arachne]

2 hours ago, Vanden said:

How difficult do you want that to be, exactly? Only asking because I still hope distance to target will someday be added to the Target window.

If that happens and people use it to dodge the explosions, that's fine by me, you still moved to avoid it.

[Ukase]

It's possible the UI warned me in some fashion, but I don't think so, but this just happened in the third mission. 



I was solo, on my tank, and although I think the HP my character has is pretty high, it's nowhere near the damage that took place here. I've solo'd this part before, on my fire/fire blaster and this didn't happen. I was just whittling away at the mob, and this happens. 

I was on the 2nd difficulty setting, Malicious, trying it out. 

I understand that your focus is to corral folks like me from soloing to teaming with others, though I've no idea why. But, even if I were teamed, I don't see how any amount of buffs would have handled this damage. Is this working as intended? 

If so, I suggest there be some sort of clear, visual cue as to what's about to happen. What's troublesome is - the mission completed right afterwards. I can't redo the mission without redoing the first two missions. I will, but it's a bit irksome. 

And I do get that at the higher difficulty setting there should be more difficulty. But going from 3k to zero isn't difficult. Getting gob-smacked for 2500, with a few seconds to react before it happens again - that's difficult. This is just kind of silly, don't you think? It's like me flying over Steel Canyon and getting blown up by the building on fire. Nothing difficult about it. The damage taken is too much to handle, so you are defeated, even though you never had a chance to move out of the way, or use an inspiration or your self-heal. 

Just my initial take. I'm sure opinions will vary. 

[Mezmera]

32 minutes ago, Ukase said:

It's possible the UI warned me in some fashion, but I don't think so, but this just happened in the third mission. 



I was solo, on my tank, and although I think the HP my character has is pretty high, it's nowhere near the damage that took place here. I've solo'd this part before, on my fire/fire blaster and this didn't happen. I was just whittling away at the mob, and this happens. 

I was on the 2nd difficulty setting, Malicious, trying it out. 

I understand that your focus is to corral folks like me from soloing to teaming with others, though I've no idea why. But, even if I were teamed, I don't see how any amount of buffs would have handled this damage. Is this working as intended? 

If so, I suggest there be some sort of clear, visual cue as to what's about to happen. What's troublesome is - the mission completed right afterwards. I can't redo the mission without redoing the first two missions. I will, but it's a bit irksome. 

And I do get that at the higher difficulty setting there should be more difficulty. But going from 3k to zero isn't difficult. Getting gob-smacked for 2500, with a few seconds to react before it happens again - that's difficult. This is just kind of silly, don't you think? It's like me flying over Steel Canyon and getting blown up by the building on fire. Nothing difficult about it. The damage taken is too much to handle, so you are defeated, even though you never had a chance to move out of the way, or use an inspiration or your self-heal. 

Just my initial take. I'm sure opinions will vary. 

 

It's not to discourage any type of behavior specifically.  It's to keep people on their toes.  Don't you look both ways before crossing the road?  Same premise here, you're solo so you should plainly see the guy you just whittled down to the point where he starts glowing gold and gives you a 10s countdown.  It is advisable to get out of that area, it isn't discouraging any type of behavior except mindless smash.  

 

If someone throws a grenade into your living room making all kinds of noise and flashing with a countdown you might want to get out of there, heck even Superman will want to make sure it's not glowing green at least if he intends to try to eat that explosion.   

Edited November 15, 2021 by Mezmera

[Ukase]

5 minutes ago, Mezmera said:

 

It's not to discourage any type of behavior specifically.  It's to keep people on their toes.  Don't you look both ways before crossing the road?  Same premise here, you're solo so you should plainly see the guy you just whittled down to the point where he starts glowing gold and gives you a 10s countdown.  It is advisable to get out of that area, it isn't discouraging any type of behavior except mindless smash.  

 

If someone throws a grenade into your living room making all kinds of noise and flashing with a countdown you might want to get out of there, heck even Superman will want to make sure it's not glowing green at least if he intends to try to eat that explosion.   

Hmm...I didn't see any glowing gold, or any countdown. But - my settings are set to performance, not ultra. 
I suppose it's possible I missed it with all the PP's in the herd. Maybe they could go with a different color for the countdown? Like Red? Or purple? 

Even so - it's silly to dish out that damage to the point where nobody can survive. Again, that's not difficult. That's just silly dodge ball. 
In Magisterium, Apex, Protean...there are clear indications to get out of the way. In this occasion, I saw no warning. It's possible I missed it, but if I did miss it, I missed it because of the npcs that were surrounding me. I'll know to look for it next time - but the warning should be more obvious. Again, opinions will vary. 

Edited November 15, 2021 by Ukase

[GM Impervium]

It's a giant glowing pillar that makes an alarm noise for 10 seconds, complete with countdown (like the Self Destruct power). The only way to miss it is if you're not looking and have your sound down =/ Though if you were in the last room of the Crey mission, you were probably dealing with a handful of Paragon protectors (including the new tougher one), so, I can see how/why you may have been distracted.

Also, it's a heads up that there are things that can/will destroy you. It's a learning curve, and more than fair once you know what's going on.


 

[Mezmera]

I have my settings in the middle somewhere, usually I turn them down for UG's.  It's real noticeable though when you get those types of targets in your area with all kinds of fx on your screen.

 

I'm pretty sure the Brickernauts and Rifters are coated in a purplish aura so at first fight those should be identifiable.  Then once you've wailed on the Bricker to the point of low hp he forms a bright gold pillar, makes tons of noise and there's a visible count on his head.  You'll want to look out for those guys. 

 

The Rifters suck you in and once they show their purplish pillar along with the big red lettering put on your screen in front of your face you'll want to pay attention to that warning to target and kill them quick, they're not nearly as bad as the other guys but they are annoying as well.

 

It's new and a little different you'll get the hang of it eventually.