Scrapper ST DPS

[Bill Z Bubba]

21 hours ago, Gobbledegook said:

Stone melee.

 

Are you already 50 and fully T4ed? 🙂

 

I mean really... it has been a full day already.

 

About to crank up my stoner shortly if I can pull myself away from killin zombies.

[SomeGuy]

5 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

Are you already 50 and fully T4ed? 🙂

 

I mean really... it has been a full day already.

 

About to crank up my stoner shortly if I can pull myself away from killin zombies.

 

 

I'm really curious what a SM/BIO is cranking out FOR AN AVERAGE. I'm building a SM/RAD right now. I don't foresee myself doing the primary experiment train for a while like I did before.

[brasilgringo]

29 minutes ago, SomeGuy said:

 

 

I'm really curious what a SM/BIO is cranking out FOR AN AVERAGE. I'm building a SM/RAD right now. I don't foresee myself doing the primary experiment train for a while like I did before.

This will be an interesting study between SM/BIO and SM/RAD.  My guess is on single targets like Pylons the /Bio will be stronger but in AOE situations the /RAD will be stronger (due to procc'd GZ and RT).  /RAD also has that sweet +dmg buff from Meltdown on scrapps.  Love to see builds as folks come up with them.  My EM/RAD is a nice mix already of ST and AOE, but I think Tremor will really help SM now.

[SomeGuy]

3 hours ago, brasilgringo said:

This will be an interesting study between SM/BIO and SM/RAD.  My guess is on single targets like Pylons the /Bio will be stronger but in AOE situations the /RAD will be stronger (due to procc'd GZ and RT).  /RAD also has that sweet +dmg buff from Meltdown on scrapps.  Love to see builds as folks come up with them.  My EM/RAD is a nice mix already of ST and AOE, but I think Tremor will really help SM now.

 

I already know the answer to that question.

Rad isn't holding a candle to Bio's damage. ST or AOE. I've got a lot of experience with both. It just isn't happening. But Bio can't hold a candle to Rad's survivability. Rad doesn't have a PBAOE dmg aura. Nor does it have a -RES aura. Nor does it permanently have a massive +DMG boost. And even with a high recharge build Rad's Ground Zero is a really long recharge. Rad is good. Really good. But if you want to start comparing tiers of armors for damage? Rad ain't it. Bio is king, by a measurable amount, in that department. If you want to talk staying-alive? Bio leaves that conversation and Rad steps up to the forefront. It's all what matters most to you. Rad is REALLY well balanced. It and electric armor, imo, are two of the best balanced armors in the game in terms of blending survivability and damage.

 

Basically, I'd want to see someone do an average time with SM/BIO to see how SM it compares to the other primaries. I can go back and look and my old TW/BIO and TW/RAD times and see the difference there and start making some guesses, but that's about it.

Edited November 28, 2021 by SomeGuy

[Sovera]

It's as complicated as logging into the test server and hitting a pylon. I'm personally pretty disappointed with Fault. It can't be called an AoE when full bar of Fury + BU + Gaussian puts minions to half HP.

[SomeGuy]

30 minutes ago, Sovera said:

It's as complicated as logging into the test server

 

I keep forgetting about this.

Edited November 28, 2021 by SomeGuy

[Gobbledigook]

15 hours ago, SomeGuy said:

 

I already know the answer to that question.

Rad isn't holding a candle to Bio's damage. ST or AOE. I've got a lot of experience with both. It just isn't happening. But Bio can't hold a candle to Rad's survivability. Rad doesn't have a PBAOE dmg aura. Nor does it have a -RES aura. Nor does it permanently have a massive +DMG boost. And even with a high recharge build Rad's Ground Zero is a really long recharge. Rad is good. Really good. But if you want to start comparing tiers of armors for damage? Rad ain't it. Bio is king, by a measurable amount, in that department. If you want to talk staying-alive? Bio leaves that conversation and Rad steps up to the forefront. It's all what matters most to you. Rad is REALLY well balanced. It and electric armor, imo, are two of the best balanced armors in the game in terms of blending survivability and damage.

 

Basically, I'd want to see someone do an average time with SM/BIO to see how SM it compares to the other primaries. I can go back and look and my old TW/BIO and TW/RAD times and see the difference there and start making some guesses, but that's about it.

It's funny you say that about  Bio's survival. I find my Bio is better than my Rad in buffed ITF which surprised me and i love my RadA. Maybe its the soft control from SS helping the set with regen and heals etc i don't know. I find it better than my DarkA also which is very slightly above RadA in survival.

 

Weird 😛

 

I am forgetting this is Scrapper forum, i mean the above on my Tanker.

 

 

@Bill Z Bubbano not yet lol. But the test server can. One thing with StoneM though...why put Tremor last for Scrappers?. They should switch it with Seismic smash like Tankers.

 

SM with some FF procs will be nice though for single target on Scrappers with some good CC.

 

@Sovera yes Fault is pretty dire. Maybe with some procs. I would turn fault into a long Cone (like a fault line) and give it relevant damage.

Edited November 28, 2021 by Gobbledegook

[SomeGuy]

On 11/26/2021 at 10:49 AM, Gobbledegook said:

Stone melee.

 

 

I rolled a SM/BIO/Zapp scrapper on Test last night. Unless someone else is doing it, I sure ain't seeing SM take the top spot. I'm getting averages right there with DB, WM, Kat, IM, etc. It's good, but it ain't king of the hill.

Edited November 28, 2021 by SomeGuy

[Bill Z Bubba]

21 minutes ago, SomeGuy said:

I rolled a SM/BIO/Zapp scrapper on Test last night. Unless someone else is doing it, I sure ain't seeing SM take the top spot. I'm getting averages right there with DB, WM, Kat, IM, etc. It's good, but it ain't king of the hill.

 

And I found the same with stone armor's revamp on a claw/stone I cranked up on beta.

[Erratic1]

19 hours ago, Gobbledegook said:

It's funny you say that about  Bio's survival. I find my Bio is better than my Rad in buffed ITF which surprised me and i love my RadA. Maybe its the soft control from SS helping the set with regen and heals etc i don't know. I find it better than my DarkA also which is very slightly above RadA in survival.

 

Weird 😛

 

I am forgetting this is Scrapper forum, i mean the above on my Tanker.

 

You are not alone as I am a fellow SS/Bio (brute) and am continually left wondering when people say Bio has poor survivability. My SS/Bio wades into nastiness without issue most times.

[nihilii]

It's fair to say Tankers and Brutes get more out of /bio survivability, because +regen and +absorb both scale extremely well with maxHP.

But I also agree, I've never felt /bio struggle for survivability even on scrappers. If anything, the layered defenses and copious amounts of absorb stack beautifully with the tools we have. 2 luck insps turn your average /bio scrapper into a pretty tough guy. If one dislikes insps, Shadow Meld fills the gap.

 

/bio is also the powerset least likely to make damage sacrifices in order to get Barrier, as all the endurance management tools can let you skip Ageless.

Finally, there's also the option to use defensive adaptation when the going gets rough. I would assume most of us run in offensive 99% (if not 99.999%) of the time, and it makes it easy to think of it as the baseline... But defensive is just one fast activation away, and it really does make you significantly tougher.

[Without_Pause]

Oddly enough when I went looking for build info for a Rad/bio Brute Ageless was the default one talked about being taken. I'm close to getting everything T4ed, but after I do, I'll work on Barrier as something to try out. I'm in the phase of kicking the tires and seeing how much I can push the build in terms of solo play, but it can have its issues. Granted, I'm getting better at playing it. While I do think it is sturdy on some level, I think the fact you need to use its various clicks consistently to keep it up and running might be why people think it is squishier. It certainly isn't a build I would blindly drop down into a +4/x8 map regardless of the mob or at least currently.

[Erratic1]

5 hours ago, nihilii said:

I would assume most of us run in offensive 99% (if not 99.999%) of the time, and it makes it easy to think of it as the baseline... 

 

29 minutes ago, Without_Pause said:

While I do think it is sturdy on some level, I think the fact you need to use its various clicks consistently to keep it up and running might be why people think it is squishier.

 

I have to wonder how much the upper statement is the cause of the lower statement. 

 

Bio has 3 click powers. Two of them--Ablative Carapace and DNA Siphon--I resort to as needed, which occurs but hardly consistently. Parasitic Aura is more of a threshold/judgment call. I often refer to its use as a best practice when engaging groups of six or more. Not following that rule of thumb has certainly led to me needing to click the other two powers.

 

But I am looking at the matter from the standpoint of a brute whose higher resistance cap along with building towards it (as goes Smash/Lethal) and preference for running in Efficient (because I like being able to non-stop go, Go, GO!) probably afford a bit more sturdiness than a scrapper in Offensive stance. At a guess a scrapper would need to overcap S/L by 7% to offset the hit from Offensive and still be behind where a brute could be while slotting DNA Siphon and Parasitic Aura with Health IO sets (which I did not do) to be at their most survivable even with the opportunity costs slotting that way would come with.

[Without_Pause]

I've recently switched to conservative to help smooth things out. It pumps put enough orange numbers to where I'm sure going defensive would be fine enough. I won't be surprised I'm at least vet level 50 before I feel comfortable in saying how sturdy it feels to me. Also a bit curious how much sturdier it would be on a tank. I only really have a WP Brute at 50 to compare. I concede the incarnates on that one needs to be nuked and rebuilt. Any other set is too low to say anything. At least scanning the Tank forums it tends to go Inv and Shield as the sturdiest but no real ranking after that. For me, game balance would need to happen where if a set is on the more offensive side, its defensive numbers should be lacking. Not that games are known for balance.

 

* Not going to compare EA on a Stalker. Would love an EA Tank though.

[Without_Pause]

I'll just point out Ageless might be taken over Barrier due to the +recharge and +debuff resistance. Unless you are specifically taking on mobs which drain end, Bio should be fine for end. 

[Black_Assassin]

On 11/29/2021 at 8:50 PM, Without_Pause said:

I've recently switched to conservative to help smooth things out. It pumps put enough orange numbers to where I'm sure going defensive would be fine enough. I won't be surprised I'm at least vet level 50 before I feel comfortable in saying how sturdy it feels to me. Also a bit curious how much sturdier it would be on a tank. I only really have a WP Brute at 50 to compare. I concede the incarnates on that one needs to be nuked and rebuilt. Any other set is too low to say anything. At least scanning the Tank forums it tends to go Inv and Shield as the sturdiest but no real ranking after that. For me, game balance would need to happen where if a set is on the more offensive side, its defensive numbers should be lacking. Not that games are known for balance.

 

* Not going to compare EA on a Stalker. Would love an EA Tank though.

 

Bio is pretty hardcore to kill on tanks. Unless it is up against psionics, which might prove an issue as i dont think a normal build will get softcap, i cannot recall. But you can still always rely on the absorb shield, which is pretty chonky on a tank with the extra HP to work from.

[ninja surprise]

All y'all need to get used to typing Stone/ or Savage/ instead of just SM so that future generations can easily figure out what you're talking about.