SCRAPPERS AND TAUNT

[Lazarus]

3 hours ago, RCU7115 said:

Hmmm, read your initial post. It says nothing about scrapper secondaries. You only posted for that on AOE's.

Now for my initial post on the subject. There were 4 people that were educated enough to understand the post.

I have nothing left to say on your OP.

You are right,..I wasn't clear enough in my original post, that's on me, but i also was snarky or insulting either.

 

BTW that to ALL who posted I've enjoyed lively debate around the subject.

also this post wasn't mad in reference to a fire armor scrapper.

I was actually testing out the new stone armor running some +2x8 and maria jenkins arc,. when I kept seeing ALOT or runners

I then realized how much my other scrappers get runner to,.and yes I HATE RUNNERS.

again thx all for the discussion.  

[arcane]

20 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

I have to recant this.

 

I do wish they all either had it or didn't.

 

Why is it thematic for SR to have a taunt aura on Brutes and Tanks? Because the enemies get pissed off at how often they miss. This would remain true for scrappers. It's ridiculous that ALL tanks and ALL brutes get a taunt aura but SOME scrappers don't. It's an unfair and idiotic design decision.

 

That said, I don't care which way it goes. Give the appropriate taunt aura to those without it, or remove it completely from all scrappers. That would be fair. That would make sense. The halfway shit annoys me.

There’s the annoying design that keeps the game stable, and then there’s the right design that brings out forum users with torches and pitchforks. My guess is no Scrappers would have taunt auras were it not for the torches and pitchforks.

[Doomguide2005]

On 11/9/2021 at 3:46 PM, Lazarus said:

CAN we get some taunt on scrappers mainly in aoe powers,..

 

TANKS have 400%

BRUTES have 300%

 can get scrapper get something like 100%

just to keep mobs from running,..

     400% Tankers 

     300% Brutes

     What?  Or more exactly 300% (or 400%) of what and what are you wanting to add 100% to on a Scrapper?

 

     Threat is what generates aggro.  'Taunt' and taunt auras are merely one way to add to your Threat value.  

 

 

 

 

      

 

[UltraAlt]

12 hours ago, kelika2 said:

brutes have scrapper numbers for their armors

but they have tanker caps

 

just let fire armor scrappers get taunt on their blazing aura

 

I am against giving taunt to scrappers; I have already stated my reasons in this thread.

I have already stated in this thread an option where scrappers can get taunt through the presence power pool..

[Bill Z Bubba]

Scrappers currently have 13 secondaries, 14 when stone armor shows up.

 

Of those 13, as per CoD, the following already have a taunt aura:

Bio with Evolving Armor 13.6 sec Mag 3

Nrg with Entropic Aura 2.25 sec Mag 3

Inv with Invincibility 13.6 sec Mag 3

Rad with Beta Decay 13.6 sec Mag 3

SD with Against All Odds 13.6 sec Mag 3

Wp with Rise to the Challenge 1.25 sec Mag 3

 

For the rest, Dark, Elec, Fire and Ice have damage auras that don't taunt, and Nin, Reg and SR get nothing.

 

All 13 have a single target taunt that I have never seen taken in any build I've seen on this forum. Or even back before the snap. A damn near universally loathed power... (EDIT: Yes, I know taunt and confront are in brute/scrapper primaries but ya ain't taking a secondary without a primary now are ya?)

 

Brutes, on the other hand, don't get Ninjitsu and already have Stone. But a quick glance through those secondaries, (that share the exact same base values, names, effects, etc as their scrapper cousins, granted, some with altered and bettered power orders) we see something interesting. Not only was every single set given Taunt instead of Confront, but every single one of them was granted a taunt aura where one didn't exist and on TOP of that, unlike the existing scrapper taunt auras, brute auras were completely standardized to 13.6 sec Mag 4. See https://cod.uberguy.net./html/power.html?power=redirects.inherents.fury_proc_aura&at=brute vs the tank standardization of 14.96 sec Mag 4.

 

So scrappers, once again, get the shaft. Two archetypes get standardized auras overriding existing settings that still show up in CoD in some cases while the third gets ignored.

 

Where was the yelling against homogenizing powersets when all that went down? Hmm? Was it because folks were actually glad to see Nrg Aura and Willpower's taunt auras no longer stuck with crappy durations for what was arguably silly and arbitrary reasons?

 

As for the existence of Provoke and the Presence pool, why the hell should I have to waste a power pool slot for a shitty version of taunt because I chose SR instead of SD for my scrapper especially when A: I can't even choose shield if I want to use Katana, Claws or Dual Blades and B: when almost half of the scrapper secondaries don't have to bother because they already have taunt auras? It really comes across as "you have the choice to suck even more and have even weaker builds to accomplish what other powersets within your own archetype don't even have to try for... oh yea, you also have to slot it for accuracy since it ain't autohit like every other taunt." It's pretty damn stupid to think that's an even remotely useful thing to bring up.

 

I find the arguments from the naysayers lacking. To make things right, there's three options moving forward as I see it.

 

1: Do nothing. This is the lazy option and a horrible decision.

 

2: Remove the taunt auras from all scrappers. Invincibility, Entropic, RttC, AaO, these powers will still function exactly as they do now, we'll just lose the benefit of maybe keeping more critters within the AoE for more buffage. As mentioned earlier by Arcane, the screaming will be pretty loud.

 

3: Continue on the path of aura standardization. This is the correct answer. Scrappers will still be stuck with the shitacular Confront but the armor SETS will share the same taunt values as their brute cousins, just as they share all other same effects and base values. The added benefit being that scrapper Wp and Nrg will finally get their taunt durations fixed. There will be some screaming here as well, obviously, but it won't be nearly as loud as option 2 and it will probably have screams of joy mixed in to balance it out.

 

Edit: And since brutes get Taunt instead of Confront, their auras should be dropped to Mag 3 to match scrappers.

Edited November 11, 2021 by Bill Z Bubba

[ChocolateMercenary]

On 11/9/2021 at 2:46 PM, Lazarus said:

CAN we get some taunt on scrappers mainly in aoe powers,..

 

TANKS have 400%

BRUTES have 300%

 can get scrapper get something like 100%

just to keep mobs from running,..

Play Shield Defense?

[AerialAssault]

I like it when the enemies run away from my awesome power. Makes me feel good.

[The_Warpact]

15 minutes ago, AerialAssault said:

I like it when the enemies run away from my awesome power. Makes me feel good.

As far as I'm concerned you won on this thread. 

[Deuce Spade]

I'm still curious about the arguments against taunt auras for scrappers.  Bill covered the arguments for, but most "against" posts either a) /jranger or "no" or "let's not go down that road", b) involve some form of AT role or balance argument, where scrapper auras are invalidating tanks, or are a reason to buff brutes, or c) some variation of designer intent, where the player was meant to experience frustration chasing runners for choosing /SR over /INV or /EA.

 

Does anyone have a reason not listed here?  I'd genuinely like to hear another perspective.

[Deuce Spade]

I wish there was one T4 Destiny that had the taunt aura from Melee Radial, no matter where they added it.  I'd be able to enjoy /SR and everyone else could keep chasing their beloved runners.

[kelika2]

9 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

 

I am against giving taunt to scrappers; I have already stated my reasons in this thread.

I have already stated in this thread an option where scrappers can get taunt through the presence power pool..

Fiery Aura is special tho, needs a taunt aura.  you can leave challenge the way it is however.

[UltraAlt]

1 minute ago, kelika2 said:

Fiery Aura is special tho, needs a taunt aura. 

 

I disagree for the reasons that I have already stated in this thread.

 

The DEVs are the ones to decide.

They can read both our stances.

There is no reason for either of us to restate our stances.

[Bill Z Bubba]

2 minutes ago, kelika2 said:

Fiery Aura is special tho, needs a taunt aura.  you can leave challenge the way it is however.

 

Why? Because of burn? Nope. All or nothing. No reason to push for one powerset to get it while the others don't, doubly so for Ice, Elec and Dark, each having damage auras just like Fire, each also having their own reasons for wanting to keep critters close by.

[kelika2]

27 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

Why? Because of burn? Nope.

Fiery Aura got its own category in those monthly reports back when they used to do them

The game itself almost shut down when Burn was making enemies run from Brutes and Tanks awhile back

 

Yeah, [Burn] makes Fiery Aura special.  Also the thousands of people who play it.

 

Yep, I think its time to give Scrapper's Fiery Aura a taunt effect.  Because it makes sense and does not contradict the scrappers playstyle, sense of being and other dev-like wording

[kelika2]

37 minutes ago, UltraAlt said:

The DEVs are the ones to decide.

If you really believe this why are you fighting other non-dev people in the thread about their suggestion so damn hard?

 

its a suggestion bro.  stop brow beating people who wanted to put their suggestion in a box

[Bill Z Bubba]

1 minute ago, kelika2 said:

Fiery Aura got its own category in those monthly reports back when they used to do them

The game itself almost shut down when Burn was making enemies run from Brutes and Tanks awhile back

 

Yeah, [Burn] makes Fiery Aura special.  Also the thousands of people who play it.

 

Yep, I think its time to give Scrapper's Fiery Aura a taunt effect.  Because it makes sense and does not contradict the scrappers playstyle, sense of being and other dev-like wording

 

Again, nope. It only got its own branch out on brutes because of fire farms. Not for scrappers. Not for tanks. Just brutes. And as a /fire using, fire farm abuser myself, I get that.

For scrappers, however:

 

Nope, ain't special.

[kelika2]

Just now, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

Again, nope. It only got its own branch out on brutes because of fire farms. Not for scrappers. Not for tanks. Just brutes. And as a /fire using, fire farm abuser myself, I get that.

For scrappers, however:

 

Nope, ain't special.

Flipside of your argument is that its not special enough and needs a buff.  Give Blazing Aura a taunt effect to make things not run away from Burn and lets see what happens afterwards. 

 

Now that this has gone on for like 2 days im not sure what the OP was playing

[UltraAlt]

8 minutes ago, kelika2 said:

If you really believe this why are you fighting other non-dev people in the thread about their suggestion so damn hard?

 

its a suggestion bro.  stop brow beating people who wanted to put their suggestion in a box

 

Yes. It is a suggestion and people are debating it.

If they are posting to try to change my mind, they aren't saying anything that will change my mind, so I'm letting them know that.

 

I'm not browbeating anyone by standing by my own stance. They have their view. I have mine.

If anyone is attempting to browbeating someone, it is you attempting to browbeat me into silence.

[Bill Z Bubba]

2 minutes ago, kelika2 said:

Flipside of your argument is that its not special enough and needs a buff.  Give Blazing Aura a taunt effect to make things not run away from Burn and lets see what happens afterwards. 

 

Now that this has gone on for like 2 days im not sure what the OP was playing

 

To take that a little further, going just off that old chart, once could argue that everything from rad on down needs a buff.

 

But I'm curious, are you pushing for JUST Fire to get the taunt aura because you think it more likely to happen than for all those missing it to get it?

[kelika2]

Just now, UltraAlt said:

 

Yes. It is a suggestion and people are debating it.

If they are posting to try to change my mind, they aren't saying anything that will change my mind, so I'm letting them know that.

 

I'm not browbeating anyone by standing by my own stance. They have their view. I have mine.

If anyone is attempting to browbeating someone, it is you attempting to browbeat me into silence.

You know you got someone good when all they can do is repeat the thing you just said.

[UltraAlt]

14 minutes ago, kelika2 said:

Because it makes sense

 

Why does it make sense?

People avoid being on fire or any other kind of damage for that matter. Someone staying in a fire or in an area where they are getting injured is the part that doesn't make sense.

 

[kelika2]

Just now, Bill Z Bubba said:

To take that a little further, going just off that old chart, once could argue that everything from rad on down needs a buff.

Im not sure anymore, Titan/Bio was top of the charts but since Titan weapons got nerfed I am not sure /Bio would be tops still.

 

2 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

But I'm curious, are you pushing for JUST Fire to get the taunt aura because you think it more likely to happen than for all those missing it to get it?

what?

[UltraAlt]

3 minutes ago, kelika2 said:

You know you got someone good when all they can do is repeat the thing you just said.

 

So you are confirming that you are down to personal attacks to try to prove something.

Okay. Noted.

[kelika2]

Just now, UltraAlt said:

Why does it make sense?

People avoid being on fire or any other kind of damage for that matter. Someone staying in a fire or in an area where they are getting injured is the part that doesn't make sense.

And im not going to go looking for what the dev actually said about it, but Brutes and Tanks taunt auras keep enemies in Burn again because it was contradictory to their playstyle.  This was over a year ago and i dont have that level of dedication to research what dev said it

[kelika2]

Just now, UltraAlt said:

 

So you are confirming that you are down to personal attacks to try to prove something.

Okay. Noted.

Yikes.