SCRAPPERS AND TAUNT

[InvaderStych]

41 minutes ago, Deuce Spade said:

Woah, I think you need to back up a second.  If there were complaints to be made about tone in this thread, I'd be the one on high ground.  There have been many, many comments suggesting people who want taunt auras were less than intelligent (jamoke) and bad players (need to scrapper harder) and lazy (had to touch my keys during combat).

 

That's fair enough.  I do often lean too far towards the assumption that someone is referring to me when their comments are not directed, but leveled towards a group with whom I agree in spirit, if not in attitude or word choice.

 

I saw those comments leveled at you and they were also useless, petty, counter-productive. I am sure you can also see how, as someone who both disagrees with you and is trying to discuss these questions constructively that when blanket accusations of "supermansplaining" are leveled upon those with which you disagree that I too would feel as attacked as you did from the comments leveled at you, directly, by others:

 

 

On 11/12/2021 at 11:22 AM, Deuce Spade said:

There hasn't been a genuine effort to discuss the problem from almost anyone, just disingenuous and condescending posts supermansplaining how to fight runners.

 

There's nothing disingenuous about my position.  I would love to see scrappers actually have their own play-style that differentiates them. 

 

28 minutes ago, Deuce Spade said:

Having the taunt aura is also a non-issue on teams, or so I imagine, so I'm not convinced this changes the scrapper into anything. 

 

Technically true.  Scrappers are *already* Nerfed Brutes With RNG Burst Dmg. To answer the remaining questions:

 

1. I wouldn't know.  I don't team with teams who routinely refuse players based on AT or Powers selection. I have no problems with people looking for a particular team composition for theme or challenge play, but as a matter of course if a PUG team is being picky about AT/Sets I know to run away quickly. 😉 I suppose another exception is a team nearly full looking to fill a gap - nothing wrong with that either.  I think we all know the line I'm drawing in the proverbial sand here. 😄

 

2. Yup. Psi/SD routinely pulls aggro away from Tanks and Brutes.  On the road to 50 so did the Savage/Invuln.  Kat/Rad, same story.  Pulling aggro off tanks all day long.  The only reason it doesn't cause issues is the lack of difficulty in the high end game.  I have a distinct feeling that when people are doing no incarnate runs and Relentless DASF it will be much more noticeable. In the case of the DASF, there are enemies there one will want to chase down with extreme prejudice and a taunt aura isn't going to make one bit of difference in their behavior. As a sign of things to come, the mechanical efficiency of auto-taunt may decrease with new content.

 

3. So, in this theoretical situation there's also no Controllers or Doms, no Defenders or Corrs?  "Tanking" is just a form of "Control" if one breaks down the core of the game far enough.  I am missing something in this question.  Scrappers should have taunt auras just in case a team can't recruit a brute or a tank?  That doesn't really speak much for the perceived value of the AT. 

 

So, I'll pose the same question again: Is there a series of +dmg changes to Scrappers in exchange for removing taunt from all secondaries that you would feel is balanced enough against Brutes without stepping on the toes of Stalkers?

 

 

Edited November 14, 2021 by InvaderStych

[Aurora_Girl]

39 minutes ago, Deuce Spade said:

Woah, I think you need to back up a second.  If there were complaints to be made about tone in this thread, I'd be the one on high ground.  There have been many, many comments suggesting people who want taunt auras were less than intelligent (jamoke) and bad players (need to scrapper harder) and lazy (had to touch my keys during combat).

 

I stand by both my comments about scrappering harder (which is a joke about scrapperlock, which is a totally acceptable and I'd even say necessary mindset for true scrapper Nirvana), as well as a general distaste for the idea of being too lazy to hit "w" to move five feet to punch something. 

[Aurora_Girl]

6 minutes ago, InvaderStych said:

Is there a series of +dmg changes to Scrappers in exchange for removing taunt from all secondaries that you would feel is balanced enough against Brutes without stepping on the toes of Stalkers?

 

I agree wholeheartedly with this idea, but I am not the expert to determine the actual math of it. I'm way more of a "feels" guy. 

[Deuce Spade]

22 minutes ago, Aurora_Girl said:

 

I stand by both my comments about scrappering harder (which is a joke about scrapperlock, which is a totally acceptable and I'd even say necessary mindset for true scrapper Nirvana), as well as a general distaste for the idea of being too lazy to hit "w" to move five feet to punch something. 

That's fine.  I didn't complain overly about it because this is the internet, and I could be reading tone wrong.  Also, what you think about my playstyle or me isn't keeping me up at night, so carry on :-).

 

<edit> also, I'm still baffled that people think mobs running away adds a level of difficulty or a challenge, or fun.  To me, it's just a pointless amount of extra time I spend, not a problem I have to figure out on the chessboard.

Edited November 14, 2021 by Deuce Spade

[Deuce Spade]

19 minutes ago, Aurora_Girl said:

 

I agree wholeheartedly with this idea, but I am not the expert to determine the actual math of it. I'm way more of a "feels" guy. 

 

29 minutes ago, InvaderStych said:

 

That's fair enough.  I do often lean too far towards the assumption that someone is referring to me when their comments are not directed, but leveled towards a group with whom I agree in spirit, if not in attitude or word choice.

 

I saw those comments leveled at you and they were also useless, petty, counter-productive. I am sure you can also see how, as someone who both disagrees with you and is trying to discuss these questions constructively that when blanket accusations of "supermansplaining" are leveled upon those with which you disagree that I too would feel as attacked as you did from the comments leveled at you, directly, by others:

 

 

 

There's nothing disingenuous about my position.  I would love to see scrappers actually have their own play-style that differentiates them. 

 

 

Technically true.  Scrappers are *already* Nerfed Brutes With RNG Burst Dmg. To answer the remaining questions:

 

1. I wouldn't know.  I don't team with teams who routinely refuse players based on AT or Powers selection. I have no problems with people looking for a particular team composition for theme or challenge play, but as a matter of course if a PUG team is being picky about AT/Sets I know to run away quickly. 😉 I suppose another exception is a team nearly full looking to fill a gap - nothing wrong with that either.  I think we all know the line I'm drawing in the proverbial sand here. 😄

 

2. Yup. Psi/SD routinely pulls aggro away from Tanks and Brutes.  On the road to 50 so did the Savage/Invuln.  Kat/Rad, same story.  Pulling aggro off tanks all day long.  The only reason it doesn't cause issues is the lack of difficulty in the high end game.  I have a distinct feeling that when people are doing no incarnate runs and Relentless DASF it will be much more noticeable. In the case of the DASF, there are enemies there one will want to chase down with extreme prejudice and a taunt aura isn't going to make one bit of difference in their behavior. As a sign of things to come, the mechanical efficiency of auto-taunt may decrease with new content.

 

3. So, in this theoretical situation there's also no Controllers or Doms, no Defenders or Corrs?  "Tanking" is just a form of "Control" if one breaks down the core of the game far enough.  I am missing something in this question.  Scrappers should have taunt auras just in case a team can't recruit a brute or a tank?  That doesn't really speak much for the perceived value of the AT. 

 

So, I'll pose the same question again: Is there a series of +dmg changes to Scrappers in exchange for removing taunt from all secondaries that you would feel is balanced enough against Brutes without stepping on the toes of Stalkers?

 

 

I don't think scrappers need any more damage for any reason, really.  They're probably doing a little too much right now for balance between ATs.  While the pylon tests aren't indicative of real game situations, there shouldn't be so many scrappers out damaging stalkers, given their focus on single target damage.

 

Regarding point three, I'm not suggesting anything about scrappers needing taunt in case a tank isn't there.  I was asking how much it disrupted play if a tank wasn't there.

 

Since most of the complaints about more scrappers getting taunt aura seem to revolve around tanks losing aggro, I have a couple more questions.  Do other ATs pull aggro off tanks, or is it a scrapper-only phenomenon?  Any blasters or stalkers or brutes ever have it happen?  Just so there's no confusion about the point of my question - 1) I really want to know, and 2) the answer should help us identify whether taunt auras are indeed a problem with teaming, or whether tanks need a taunting buff, or if losing aggro occasionally to other ATs is part of the tank game that needs to be managed, in much the same way that people think runners need to be managed without a scrapper taunt aura

[A Cat]

Are scrappers actually bad? I know some people nowadays just say tank is the best by far, and they are hella good with the AoE, but someone has to target down bosses. That seems like it is naturally the scrapper/stalker/blaster (blaster targets down everyone) job. If there is any change to scrappers and stalkers, it may be an idea to try and focus it on something that benefits single target dps. I have played all four of the melee dps (mainly brutes, but I have at least two of everything except tank, which I only have one of, at level 50. Of course nothing compared to the true vets around here) and honestly, I think they're all pretty damn good still. The ATO's really transform scrappers and stalkers and at least IMO, make no playstyle difference to tanks/brutes. 

[Deuce Spade]

16 minutes ago, A Cat said:

Are scrappers actually bad?

No, they are pretty great.

[Bill Z Bubba]

1 hour ago, InvaderStych said:

So, I'll pose the same question again: Is there a series of +dmg changes to Scrappers in exchange for removing taunt from all secondaries that you would feel is balanced enough against Brutes without stepping on the toes of Stalkers?

 

I don't see one nor do I think a damage buff is warranted for scrappers at all under any circumstance. We don't need more powercreep. We just need standardization.

 

1 hour ago, Aurora_Girl said:

I stand by both my comments about scrappering harder (which is a joke about scrapperlock, which is a totally acceptable and I'd even say necessary mindset for true scrapper Nirvana), as well as a general distaste for the idea of being too lazy to hit "w" to move five feet to punch something. 

 

I scrap by hitting tab for target, f to follow and cycle through the appropriate attack chains until it's time to hit tab and f again. Stating that I'm wishing for standardization of taunt auras just because I'm too lazy to move an extra few feet is rude, short-sighted and wrong. It has absolutely nothing to do with the distance I have to travel to a target and everything to do with the unfairness of the have/have-not discrepancy and everything that comes with it. A discrepancy I will again state that is only a scrapper problem. Tanks and brutes have no such issue. Stalkers have no such issue. Even our new cousin the sentinel has no such issue.

 

36 minutes ago, A Cat said:

Are scrappers actually bad? I know some people nowadays just say tank is the best by far, and they are hella good with the AoE, but someone has to target down bosses. That seems like it is naturally the scrapper/stalker/blaster (blaster targets down everyone) job. If there is any change to scrappers and stalkers, it may be an idea to try and focus it on something that benefits single target dps. I have played all four of the melee dps (mainly brutes, but I have at least two of everything except tank, which I only have one of, at level 50. Of course nothing compared to the true vets around here) and honestly, I think they're all pretty damn good still. The ATO's really transform scrappers and stalkers and at least IMO, make no playstyle difference to tanks/brutes. 

 

No, scrappers aren't bad at all. They dish out fantastic damage and are sturdy enough to often survive doing so.

[Aurora_Girl]

@Bill Z Bubba I would like to state for the official record that you are never the target of my snark ESPECIALLY regarding the "too lazy to move" point. That's a general (if overgeneralized) complaint I have with the melee community at-large, borne mostly out of their blanket distaste for knockback. 😛

[Deuce Spade]

5 minutes ago, Aurora_Girl said:

@Bill Z Bubba I would like to state for the official record that you are never the target of my snark ESPECIALLY regarding the "too lazy to move" point. That's a general (if overgeneralized) complaint I have with the melee community at-large, borne mostly out of their blanket distaste for knockback. 😛

Ah, well as long as you aren't disparaging Bill.  That's the important thing here.

 

See?  More light sarcasm, and no vitriol.

[arcane]

Scrappers don’t need help looking good next to Brutes at all

 

[Deuce Spade]

6 minutes ago, arcane said:

Scrappers don’t need help looking good next to Brutes at all

 

I was mystified by the "scrappers are nerfed brutes" thing too, but he's probably measuring the class differently than I am.

[Bill Z Bubba]

55 minutes ago, Aurora_Girl said:

@Bill Z Bubba I would like to state for the official record that you are never the target of my snark ESPECIALLY regarding the "too lazy to move" point. That's a general (if overgeneralized) complaint I have with the melee community at-large, borne mostly out of their blanket distaste for knockback. 😛

 

That's only cuz you leave all the direct snark for discord!

 

Also, you said the word that shall not be mentioned. Go give yourself the appropriate number of lashes.

[Aurora_Girl]

1 hour ago, Deuce Spade said:

Ah, well as long as you aren't disparaging Bill.  That's the important thing here.

 

See?  More light sarcasm, and no vitriol.

 

Bill knows my wife and kids, you don't. 😏

[DreadShinobi]

8 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

I do not. I have a claws/fire brute for farming and a fire/nrg tank that was an nrg/fire brute back before the snap. Fire armor is too squishy for me without tank values in non-farming content. I also don't have any dark, elec or ice scrappers. I didn't have regen either until creating the fire/regen scrapper the other day but that will probably just be slapped together on beta just so I can feel how horrifically weak it will be and deleted from live.

 

I forgot to add to my post earlier to you some additional questions.

 

If fiery aura had a taunt aura would you make and enjoy a claws/fire scrapper? 

-Do you feel this would create an imbalance between brute v scrapper? Would it be stronger, weaker, or would it find parity?

-Even if the set is too squishy for you, who i know loves soloing 4/8 content, do you feel such a change would make the set more attractive to the general coh populace?

-If fiery aura had a taunt aura on scrappers would this take away from, or reduce the value of other archetypes in similar roles? Is this something that would infringe on stalkers? On brutes? On tankers?

-If all scrappers had taunt auras for parity within the archetype is homogenization of the 4 standard melee archetypes a concern for you? 

-Do you find yourself able to contribute less to teams when playing a melee archetype that does not have an aggro control function? Is bringing a dps-only role to a team *enough* fot a scrapper as it is for stalkers?

-If all scrapper secondaries had a taunt aura would dark, electric, and ice armor find equal benefit compared to fiery aura?

-Do you feel sets like super reflexes, ninjitsu, and regeneration should have a taunt aura?

 

The precedent set for sets like willpower, shield defense, et all were given taunt aura to support mechanics that require foes to be close. My opinion is that damage auras have the same need for a taunt component for effective functioning as powers like RttC and AAO. Do damage auras and buff auras even matter in this discussion at all? Or is a light taunt aura something that should be considered for scrappers in relevance to effective use of their primary powerset melee attacks?

 

I was going to add questions around the idea of stripping taunt auras from all scrapper secondaries but I just can't find words that don't sound assinine, stupid, and otherwise unproductive to game balance. I'm treading lightly on my opinions that scrappers secondaries without taunt auras are just not worth playing at all, so my questions above were written as open ended as I could manage for the purpose of good discussion. If I were to have my way, scrapper secondaries with damage auras would have at least a 2-3 second duration taunt aura, some of the stronger taunt auras would maybe be reduced for cross archetype parity, and sr/nin/regen would maybe have a separate consideration. 2-3 second taunt auras would do well to support scrapper functioning as an off-tank, reduce their capability to main tank on sets like shield, improve role flexibility on teams, and improve diversification of scrapper secondary choices that are underplayed. 

 

4 hours ago, InvaderStych said:

 

Technically true.  Scrappers are *already* Nerfed Brutes With RNG Burst Dmg.

 

As a sign of things to come, the mechanical efficiency of auto-taunt may decrease with new content.

 

3. So, in this theoretical situation there's also no Controllers or Doms, no Defenders or Corrs?  "Tanking" is just a form of "Control" if one breaks down the core of the game far enough.  I am missing something in this question.  Scrappers should have taunt auras just in case a team can't recruit a brute or a tank?  That doesn't really speak much for the perceived value of the AT. 

Post dissected a bit.

 

Statement A is absolutely false. Scrappers are not nerfed brutes if they have a taunt aura in any capacity. I would potentially argue scrappers without taunt auras are also not nerfed brutes when there is sufficient control already present on a team. Scrappers without taunt auras when a team lacks sufficient aggro control or mez control can absolutely be considered nerfed brutes.

 

Statement B should support the benefit of having an off-tank on the team, which can help reduce the overall load placed on the main tank. Off tanking is already a valuable tool to bring to teams and possibly moreso leagues where multiple groups may need aggro management whether that is simultaneous objectives, split team clearing, or encounters exceeding the aggro cap of the main tank. Hard mode content should expand on the value of the latter where a main tank may appreciate having a team member take some pressure off of them whether it is above the aggro cap or possibly the encounter would be handled better with multiple dangerous foes separated. Think for example a hard mode classic lord recluse strike force with a team that has recruited less support archetypes. Drawing away positron for example so the rest of the team and main tank are not hit by his aoe debuffs can be massively beneficial. 

 

Statement C, aggro control is absolutely a form of control just as dominators and controllers produce. This is the most relevant point. There are some differences in how taunt control and hard control benefit a team though. Hard control helps prevent scatter, reduces incoming damage, increases damage potential by allowing archetypes like blasters to play more aggressively, increases damage when the threat level is high enough by reducing the need to cast a defensive or healing power instead of a damaging power, and allows aggro control archetypes to more aggressively pull multiple groups safely even if it exceeds their aggro cap. Aggro control does many of these same things in addition to typically being better at clumping mobs closely for more effective leverage of aoe damage. Aggro control can also be very helpful in increasing damage when the target may otherwise run away, certain AVs come to mind that can really be a PITA without such mechanic. Effective aggro control generally makes people less likely to throw their keyboard out the window.

[Bill Z Bubba]

17 minutes ago, DreadShinobi said:

I forgot to add to my post earlier to you some additional questions.

 

If fiery aura had a taunt aura would you make and enjoy a claws/fire scrapper?

Maybe.

-Do you feel this would create an imbalance between brute v scrapper? Would it be stronger, weaker, or would it find parity?

No.

-Even if the set is too squishy for you, who i know loves soloing 4/8 content, do you feel such a change would make the set more attractive to the general coh populace?

Yes.

-If fiery aura had a taunt aura on scrappers would this take away from, or reduce the value of other archetypes in similar roles? Is this something that would infringe on stalkers? On brutes? On tankers?

No. Because we already have scrappers with taunt auras.

-If all scrappers had taunt auras for parity within the archetype is homogenization of the 4 standard melee archetypes a concern for you?

The recent tank buffs already pushed things far too close to homogenization. In my perfect world, Going Rogue never would have happened as that was the first step toward farking everything up in regards to balance between the four melee archetypes.

-Do you find yourself able to contribute less to teams when playing a melee archetype that does not have an aggro control function? Is bringing a dps-only role to a team *enough* fot a scrapper as it is for stalkers?

Everyone contributes to a team. Some more than others. Nothing will change this.

-If all scrapper secondaries had a taunt aura would dark, electric, and ice armor find equal benefit compared to fiery aura?

They will all benefit.

-Do you feel sets like super reflexes, ninjitsu, and regeneration should have a taunt aura?

As they do for tanks and brutes, yes. But again, I'm also fine with removing all taunt auras since stalkers and sentinels don't have them.

 

25 minutes ago, DreadShinobi said:

The precedent set for sets like willpower, shield defense, et all were given taunt aura to support mechanics that require foes to be close. My opinion is that damage auras have the same need for a taunt component for effective functioning as powers like RttC and AAO. Do damage auras and buff auras even matter in this discussion at all? Or is a light taunt aura something that should be considered for scrappers in relevance to effective use of their primary powerset melee attacks?

 

I have to argue both sides of this one. I absolutely agree that damage auras, in order to function properly within the archetype's function, should both crit and taunt. Neither is the case now. The flip side is that powers like RttC, Invinc and AAO will all continue to function exactly as described without a taunt aura. They just won't function as well. If we are to accept that the scrapper's job is to kill shit, then every set having a taunt aura benefits in doing that job.

 

28 minutes ago, DreadShinobi said:

I was going to add questions around the idea of stripping taunt auras from all scrapper secondaries but I just can't find words that don't sound assinine, stupid, and otherwise unproductive to game balance. I'm treading lightly on my opinions that scrappers secondaries without taunt auras are just not worth playing at all, so my questions above were written as open ended as I could manage for the purpose of good discussion. If I were to have my way, scrapper secondaries with damage auras would have at least a 2-3 second duration taunt aura, some of the stronger taunt auras would maybe be reduced for cross archetype parity, and sr/nin/regen would maybe have a separate consideration. 2-3 second taunt auras would do well to support scrapper functioning as an off-tank, reduce their capability to main tank on sets like shield, improve role flexibility on teams, and improve diversification of scrapper secondary choices that are underplayed. 

 

I hear you but I will not accept a standardization of taunt auras without an associated standardization of duration times as already done for brutes and tanks.

 

Total side note here concerning stepping on other AT roles. I have MANY times struggled to maintain an AV's aggro with my tank when a brute is hammering away on the same AV. This is in part due to the brute's taunt aura having the same magnitude as the tank's and this is wrong and should also be corrected. Thus my statement far earlier in the thread that brute taunt mag should be reduced to scrapper taunt mag.

 

32 minutes ago, DreadShinobi said:

Statement A is absolutely false. Scrappers are not nerfed brutes if they have a taunt aura in any capacity. I would potentially argue scrappers without taunt auras are also not nerfed brutes when there is sufficient control already present on a team. Scrappers without taunt auras when a team lacks sufficient aggro control or mez control can absolutely be considered nerfed brutes.

 

I agree completely. Before the snap, before AT IOs came into play, my claws/sr brute DID out-damage my claws/sr scrapper and did so with more HP and thus more utilization of the scaling damres. The claws/sr brute was numerically superior in every way to the claws/sr scrapper. This actually prompted me to move the character that had been my main since Issue 1 to another server and make him anew as a brute on Pinnacle. Thankfully, that is no longer the case thanks to brute nerfs and the scrapper AT IOS. The only BZB that has gone above 200 vet levels is BZB scrap. Course... that was only because I absolutely needed that screenshot of him at 666 vet lvls and 666 badges.

 

For statements B and C, no argument. You've got the truth dead on.

[Deuce Spade]

50 minutes ago, DreadShinobi said:

Effective aggro control generally makes people less likely to throw their keyboard out the window.

Not on topic, but I once broke my right pinkie punching my monitor soloing a Stalker after CoV came out.  It is still bent funny to this day.

[Wavicle]

Some people want to play a melee toon that doesn't draw aggro and is not a rogue. Scrappers are for them.

For those that want taunt on their scrappers there are 6 secondaries with taunt auras. There's also a pool power aoe taunt and a partial uptime incarnate taunt aura.

[Haijinx]

2 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

 

I have to argue both sides of this one. I absolutely agree that damage auras, in order to function properly within the archetype's function, should both crit and taunt. Neither is the case now. The flip side is that powers like RttC, Invinc and AAO will all continue to function exactly as described without a taunt aura. They just won't function as well. If we are to accept that the scrapper's job is to kill shit, then every set having a taunt aura benefits in doing that job.

 

 

 

I basically agree with the idea that every set should be reasonably equal.  Thus if some have auras they probably all should*.   It also seems odd that damage auras favor brutes due to the crit thing.   The taunt aura and lack of crit doesn't seem to be accounted for in any of the secondary balance.  Otherwise you'd see some compensation somewhere that brutes do not have, and its just not there.   It all comes across as unplanned and accidental as it is now. 

 

Or none should have taunt auras, that works too, but it would be a nerf to a lot of scrapper combos.  Maybe it makes sense to do this to separate scrappers and brutes some, but if they are going to do that, like above it should be Intentional, not willy nilly.   

 

----------------------------

*Though I think if you give Scrapper Regen a taunt aura, a lot of scrappers are going to get wrecked.  

[Haijinx]

1 hour ago, Wavicle said:

Some people want to play a melee toon that doesn't draw aggro and is not a rogue. Scrappers are for them.

For those that want taunt on their scrappers there are 6 secondaries with taunt auras. There's also a pool power aoe taunt and a partial uptime incarnate taunt aura.

 

You can just play Stalker for that.   They scrap pretty well now and shed aggro like water off a duck's back.  

 

They haven't aren't "rogues" anymore. 

[Akisan]

8 hours ago, Deuce Spade said:

Since most of the complaints about more scrappers getting taunt aura seem to revolve around tanks losing aggro, I have a couple more questions.  Do other ATs pull aggro off tanks, or is it a scrapper-only phenomenon?  Any blasters or stalkers or brutes ever have it happen?

 

Archery/Ice/Fire Blaster main here, it definitely happens from time to time against AVs.  Usually only when the tank isn't actively taunting (relying on just aura + gauntlet), but I have pulled AVs off of the tanks in Incarnate trials (best was pulling Pendragon during a Magisterium back on live, he stings a bit)

[Wavicle]

1 hour ago, Haijinx said:

 

You can just play Stalker for that. 

Not if you want, in many cases, to have all your attacks and defenses.

[BrandX]

7 hours ago, Deuce Spade said:

I was mystified by the "scrappers are nerfed brutes" thing too, but he's probably measuring the class differently than I am.

 

Me too!  Scrappers were first!  So, his comment should at least be "Brutes are buffed Scrappers" 😛

 

Still prefer Scrappers myself 🙂  Though I do love my Ice/Fire Brute.