request Null the Gull inside RWZ base.

[Bill Z Bubba]

18 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Okay. Now about those zone MSRs people are trying to not get dropped out of....

 

Stop doing them so that you don't mess with the folks soloing real pylons? (Apparently the instanced pylons are different.)

 

/This was sarcasm.

//The first part, not the second. Instanced pylons have a lvl, zone don't.

///three slashies for those that know why

[Oklahoman]

22 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Okay. Now about those zone MSRs people are trying to not get dropped out of....

 

I don't want to get into a comparison between the zoned and instanced MSRs, because that's not why this thread was started. I prefer to run the zoned MSR, others prefer the instanced, and we all have reasons.

 

Before RWZ was capped to 50 players, this suggestion wasn't needed - but we were also running two full leagues in the same zone at the same time on occasion. Now that things have settled down, I wonder if you just removed that cap what might happen. I don't think you could remove the zone cap for Hami's tho - they are still very popular. On Ex they don't have to advertise the regularly run ones because the zone is already full at the starting time.

[Apparition]

30 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Again, does anyone have a response that may be technical in nature other than you should know better about what can and can't affect you across who knows how many toons for each player? You know, something useful for the discussion?

 

And there are instanced MSRs?! When and how did this happen? The zone MSRs are the only ones I know of. And that still does not address how to get back in zone for a Hamidon raid.

 

Instanced mothership raids were added to Homecoming on October 1st, 2019.  They require everyone on the league to be level 35+ and have the Member of Vanguard badge.  However, there are numerous advantages to the instanced MSR.

 

Everyone must be level 35+, so there are no level two or level ten characters on the league using the raid as a cheap way to power level.  Brutes and Tankers get Vanguard merits from their team while pulling, no matter how far away from the rest of the team they are.  The hospital is inside the instance and much closer to the mothership, so you get back into the action more quickly.  The instanced MSR map is only about half the size of the RWZ map, so there is significantly less lag.  Everything in the instance is level 54, including the pylons, so it’s slightly more difficult than a zone MSR.  Everyone is automatically boosted to level 50 upon entering the instance, so there is no need to fiddle with the league to ensure that all team leaders are level 50, as everyone in the league is level 50.  All of this adds up to a much smoother mothership raid with significantly more Vanguard merits compared to zone mothership raids.

 

On top of that, you don’t have to compete with people doing other things in the RWZ, and vice versa.  There’s no need to ask people trying to form a LGTF or Tinpex to leave the zone, and LGTF and Tinpex leaders don’t have to worry about some teammates being in RWZ 1, 2, and/or three.

 

Unfortunately, only mothership raid leaders on the Indomitable and Torchbearer shards run instanced MSRs.

[Rudra]

21 minutes ago, Oklahoman said:

 

I don't want to get into a comparison between the zoned and instanced MSRs, because that's not why this thread was started. I prefer to run the zoned MSR, others prefer the instanced, and we all have reasons.

 

Before RWZ was capped to 50 players, this suggestion wasn't needed - but we were also running two full leagues in the same zone at the same time on occasion. Now that things have settled down, I wonder if you just removed that cap what might happen. I don't think you could remove the zone cap for Hami's tho - they are still very popular. On Ex they don't have to advertise the regularly run ones because the zone is already full at the starting time.

Which brings us back on topic. (Thank you for that, by the way.) Having Null the Gull in the RWZ, the Hive, and the Abyss would let people make their group fly adjustments in zone without being locked out of the event because it filled up while they were dashing off to make a single change. It does not matter if you visited him in Pocket D at level 1 and chose to not be affected or if you went later or if you never went at all. With him in zone, you can adjust as needed at the time and location needed and it takes away literally nothing from anyone. At all. It doesn't bog down anything going on in zone. It doesn't prevent those who visited him in Pocket D from doing anything. All it does, is let people change a game flag in a location where they may want to change it for some reason.

Edited January 19, 2022 by Rudra
Edited for grammar.

[Tahliah]

On 1/17/2022 at 10:24 PM, Apparition said:

 

 

Making Group Fly a slash command or option in the options window was suggested during Page Two beta development, but was deemed too difficult (if not outright impossible), by developers.  It's why it was added as an option to Null the Gull in the first place instead of a slash command or option in the options window.

Good to know.  When I first saw the thread, I thought this would be a great idea and was going to suggest sticking one in Ouro [or even in our sg bases] too so we can change alignment there and then just port to the RI/Paragon/whatever, and better would be if we can select Null options the same we can change difficulty.  But I guess that's not possible.  Oh well, it was a nice, shiny thought while it lasted.

 

To be honest, though, I would probably still make the trip to Pocket D for Null stuff (I tend to not like the running speed part of Speed Boost and I cannot stand that popup tray for Afterburner so change this on all my toons, as well as disabling Group Fly), but that stuff is not something I need to do in seconds like switching sides to join a team (I so hate to keep teams waiting while I zone to PD, change alignment, then head to the mission, and I don't have mission tp on all that many toons, so it can take a while depending on the level).

 

Anyway, now I am just rambling (as usual!). 

 

tldr; ty Apparition!  (heh)

Edited January 20, 2022 by Tahliah
added text

[wjrasmussen]

On 1/18/2022 at 11:09 AM, Aurora_Girl said:

 

It wasn't a choice between two valid options. It was way easier and way less messy and potentially problematic to do it via Null (which grants a power which turns off GF) Than coding a bunch of extra shit

That made me laugh.

[Aurora_Girl]

7 hours ago, wjrasmussen said:

That made me laugh.

 

Why?

[kwsapphire]

On 1/19/2022 at 2:31 PM, Rudra said:

I don't want to keep the pop up tray on, no. Neither do I care if it is there. Scary as the thought is, I actually use the pop up try on occasion.

 

I use afterburner all the time. Lots and Lots. I also disable the pop-up tray. I don't hate it, but I don't like it, and I don't need it. Fun fact, you can add afterburner & other similar powers to your normal trays just like any other power. This way I can use my usual keybinds to activate it instead of having to click. 🙂

 

 

On 1/19/2022 at 3:29 PM, Greycat said:

As far as "well, turn it off in any of the previous levels" - I have 100-odd characters. I challenge you show me where, immediately on login, I can see that I've had that turned off or on. The *only* ones  I know I have it selected a certain way are... the ones I've personally taken group fly on.

 

My solution is a spreadsheet. I was already keeping a spreadsheet of my toons anyway, so I added columns for Null, P2W, LRT, Radio, and Vanguard so I can mark things off as they're unlocked. 🙂  LRT is marked as done when I've unlocked all the zones available for teleport. I also use reveal in each zone as I do this. 

 

 

On 1/19/2022 at 6:36 PM, Apparition said:

Everyone must be level 35+, so there are no level two or level ten characters on the league using the raid as a cheap way to power level.  

[...]

Unfortunately, only mothership raid leaders on the Indomitable and Torchbearer shards run instanced MSRs.

 

I laughed when I read this. I am suddenly quite happy I moved from Tochbearer to Everlasting. When I asked in an Everlasting MSR if it was considered rude to bring lowbies, people responded "Not at all!" and have welcomed many lowbies with open arms. 

[Troo]

47 minutes ago, kwsapphire said:

My solution is a spreadsheet. I was already keeping a spreadsheet of my toons anyway, so I added columns for Null, P2W, LRT, Radio, and Vanguard so I can mark things off as they're unlocked. 🙂  LRT is marked as done when I've unlocked all the zones available for teleport. I also use reveal in each zone as I do this. 

 

Solid plan and execution.

[Rudra]

Sure. Could also just put Null in the zones where he is most needed too. No new code required. No fuss over opening a spreadsheet and doing a search on all your characters. Just a "Hey! Apparently this character is affected by Group Fly!" or "Whoops! I need to be affected by Group Fly here and am not.", dash over to Null at zone hospital or whereever, make a quick change, and be done. I don't understand why there is so much opposition to something that requires just a duplication of an existing NPC into other zones and does not impose on others.

[Aurora_Girl]

14 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Sure. Could also just put Null in the zones where he is most needed too. No new code required. No fuss over opening a spreadsheet and doing a search on all your characters. Just a "Hey! Apparently this character is affected by Group Fly!" or "Whoops! I need to be affected by Group Fly here and am not.", dash over to Null at zone hospital or whereever, make a quick change, and be done. I don't understand why there is so much opposition to something that requires just a duplication of an existing NPC into other zones and does not impose on others.

Because it doesn't need to be done enough to justify doing it.

[Rudra]

Nothing in the suggestion forum needs to be done enough to justify it. That is why they are player suggestions rather than fixes or updates.

 

If the criteria for a suggestion is what do we need to have done to the game, then may as well shut down this forum. We don't need player requested new content. (The devs are more than capable of coming up with their own.) We don't need new heroes or villains. We don't need new base items. We ask for them just the same. Some requests increase convenience. Some requests expand costume options. Some requests do other things, I'm not going to list every possibility. There is not a sufficient need for any of that to justify it. We still ask though. And sometimes, the devs say okay, and give it to us. A lack of need is not a good reason to say no to a suggestion. Difficulty in implementation, disruption of game, handicapping content or players? Sure, all those are good reasons to say no. The only reason given so far though is: some players do this in Pocket D consistently and want other players that don't to be punished.

 

And before anyone says you aren't asking for other players to be punished, missing out on something because it fills after you have to leave the zone to make a change is a punishment. The punishment is being unable to participate.

Edited January 23, 2022 by Rudra
Edited to add second paragraph. ... and third....

[arcane]

“If it doesn’t hurt other players then there’s no reason to oppose it” is a nonsense argument. It’s a variant of the infamous “if you don’t like it you don’t have to use it / participate in it” trope that just won’t die.
 
Let’s just have a dozen Nulls, P2W Vendors, trainers, and merit vendors in each and every zone. It doesn’t harm anyone, and I can’t stand to move more than 100 ft to find any of them. WHY ARE YOU PUNISHING ME. And yes, that temp power that kills every NPC on the mission map too. We need that and if you don’t want to use it you don’t have to. None of this clearly obstructs your fellow player’s experience and therefore it is all a good idea. 

Edited January 23, 2022 by arcane

[arcane]

Now to turn off the sarcasm and give my real thoughts on Gull. I certainly couldn’t care less about “punishing” other players - what a vivid imagination...

 

Here’s the thing about Gull. Gull is an ugly, inelegant monument to this game’s developer’s failures. It is the in game equivalent of expressing that “I can’t fix this, but I can clumsily apply a whole roll of duct tape and call it good enough.” Null literally only exists because the devs had a few issues that needed a fix and they couldn’t make heads or tails of how to do it with the game’s code/settings. If I’m a dev for this game, I not only want there to be no more than one Null, but I’d also kind of prefer he be shoved into a janitor’s closet in Pocket D so the stain on this game is less visible. Null is a last resort that we only barely want to exist, not something to be proliferated and celebrated. Although it is mildly comical that he manifests as a wisecrack bird.

 

I would say P2W Vendor is in a similar boat although its offerings are a good bit more addictive. But I wouldn’t mind changing her name to GameShark or Cheat Code Store so we’re all a little more honest about what we’re doing there.

 

These may be petty reasons to those personality types here that can only ever seem to ask “why not?” when presented with a truckload of free candy, but I think it’s reasonable to want the developers to pursue a product that is elegant.

 

And when I think of all of the ideas to which some can only say “why not?”.... maybe one or two wouldn’t destroy everything, no. But the responsible developer must think what will happen to the game after 1,000 “why not?” ideas are implemented if they are going to rely on that philosophy at all. It’s not a good argument.

 

Edited January 23, 2022 by arcane

[Rudra]

1 hour ago, arcane said:

Now to turn off the sarcasm and give my real thoughts on Gull. I certainly couldn’t care less about “punishing” other players - what a vivid imagination...

 

Here’s the thing about Gull. Gull is an ugly, inelegant monument to this game’s developer’s failures. It is the in game equivalent of expressing that “I can’t fix this, but I can clumsily apply a whole roll of duct tape and call it good enough.” Null literally only exists because the devs had a few issues that needed a fix and they couldn’t make heads or tails of how to do it with the game’s code/settings. If I’m a dev for this game, I not only want there to be no more than one Null, but I’d also kind of prefer he be shoved into a janitor’s closet in Pocket D so the stain on this game is less visible. Null is a last resort that we only barely want to exist, not something to be proliferated and celebrated. Although it is mildly comical that he manifests as a wisecrack bird.

 

I would say P2W Vendor is in a similar boat although its offerings are a good bit more addictive. But I wouldn’t mind changing her name to GameShark or Cheat Code Store so we’re all a little more honest about what we’re doing there.

 

These may be petty reasons to those personality types here that can only ever seem to ask “why not?” when presented with a truckload of free candy, but I think it’s reasonable to want the developers to pursue a product that is elegant.

 

And when I think of all of the ideas to which some can only say “why not?”.... maybe one or two wouldn’t destroy everything, no. But the responsible developer must think what will happen to the game after 1,000 “why not?” ideas are implemented if they are going to rely on that philosophy at all. It’s not a good argument.

 

Thank you. Those are reasons that actually make a case against the topic. I honestly forgot about Null being a kludge to address problems. I still disagree with parts of your argument, but I understand and accept other parts as valid reasons why this should not be done. I bow out of this discussion.

 

(*Though I still think a means of changing Group Fly's ability to affect someone is a good idea in those zones. Just not Null perhaps.)

Edited January 23, 2022 by Rudra
Edited to add final thought.

[A Cat]

2 hours ago, arcane said:

“If it doesn’t hurt other players then there’s no reason to oppose it” is a nonsense argument. It’s a variant of the infamous “if you don’t like it you don’t have to use it / participate in it” trope that just won’t die.
 
Let’s just have a dozen Nulls, P2W Vendors, trainers, and merit vendors in each and every zone. It doesn’t harm anyone, and I can’t stand to move more than 100 ft to find any of them. WHY ARE YOU PUNISHING ME. And yes, that temp power that kills every NPC on the mission map too. We need that and if you don’t want to use it you don’t have to. None of this clearly obstructs your fellow player’s experience and therefore it is all a good idea. 

Only raid zones have the unique issue of not being able to leave the zone without risking losing your spot due to the zone cap though. 

 

Also, I don't know the spaghetti code, but surely copy and pasting Gull in RWZ wouldn't be a big deal right? It is already a Co-op zone so the side switching shouldn't even matter. Another question then is who even wants to be affected by group fly? Maybe make it default off rather than on if that is easier. The only thing I can come up with is Shadow Shard, but even then, you have jetpacks aplenty in P2W. 

 

1 hour ago, arcane said:

Here’s the thing about Gull. Gull is an ugly, inelegant monument to this game’s developer’s failures. It is the in game equivalent of expressing that “I can’t fix this, but I can clumsily apply a whole roll of duct tape and call it good enough.” Null literally only exists because the devs had a few issues that needed a fix and they couldn’t make heads or tails of how to do it with the game’s code/settings. If I’m a dev for this game, I not only want there to be no more than one Null, but I’d also kind of prefer he be shoved into a janitor’s closet in Pocket D so the stain on this game is less visible. Null is a last resort that we only barely want to exist, not something to be proliferated and celebrated. Although it is mildly comical that he manifests as a wisecrack bird.

Well, yes. It should have been just a options menu item. If you only want one Gull, then I would prefer it were in RWZ instead of Pocket D though. 

[arcane]

46 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Thank you. Those are reasons that actually make a case against the topic. I honestly forgot about Null being a kludge to address problems. I still disagree with parts of your argument, but I understand and accept other parts as valid reasons why this should not be done. I bow out of this discussion.

 

(*Though I still think a means of changing Group Fly's ability to affect someone is a good idea in those zones. Just not Null perhaps.)

I sincerely apologize that you’ve been this week’s scapegoat for my ire and angst. Someone’s gotta do it. This post reads like you understand 🙂 

 

This is all relatively inconsequential. I just think the raid issue feels inconsequential too once you take into account the fact that each character needs to make a grand total of one Null trip for the rest of eternity for the Group Fly fix. Even if you miss one raid to do it, in doing so you’re set for life. But I digress.

[Bionic_Flea]

19 hours ago, Rudra said:

The only reason given so far though is: some players do this in Pocket D consistently and want other players that don't to be punished.

And with this, you lost me.

 

I hope the devs punish you by not implementing your multi-Null request.  You will fly and like it!

[wjrasmussen]

2 minutes ago, Bionic_Flea said:

And with this, you lost me.

 

I hope the devs punish you by not implementing your multi-Null request.  You will fly and like it!

I am imagining Pocket D after this: