Sweeping defense changes

[Doomguide2005]

11 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

I understand your point of view, and I don't entirely disagree with you. I do think that fixing the power creep will require a little more in depth and complexity than what you've proposed, but I don't think that your solution is inherently wrong.

 

However, I think that the developers have chosen to solve the exact same problem as you, just from the other side of the equation. By raising the inherent ToHit of critters in the Challenge Mode content, they're doing exactly what you recommend. Raising NPC's ToHit lowers PC's softcap, it just does it from the other end of the equation.

 

So it appears to me that the developers are already doing what you want. Lowering the softcap. They're just doing it in a way that's less obvious to the players and only in end game Challenge Mode content.

I'd add it's also easier to back out of a less all encompassing optional change to the foes should it prove problematic rather than an across the board nerf to players.  By the time it's undone players are likely long gone, many potentially permanently.

[golstat2003]

1 hour ago, Doomguide2005 said:

I'd add it's also easier to back out of a less all encompassing optional change to the foes should it prove problematic rather than an across the board nerf to players.  By the time it's undone players are likely long gone, many potentially permanently.

Correct. if this were Live COH that would be one thing. But there are so many flavors of COH out now that across the board sweeping changes just won’t fly in this age. The devs know the majority like the game easy, but are giving those of us who like challenge from time to time options to get that challenge.

 

And rewarding those that take on that challenge. As they add more of this mode to other TFs and new content, we are good to go.

[macskull]

On 1/25/2022 at 4:51 PM, Haijinx said:

I've lost count of how often I've heard people cheer on someone dying so they can trigger Vengence.

 

They are skipping Primary and Secondary Powers so they can have Vengence and a second travel power.  That is how easy this game is.  

I dunno about other people but I like Vengeance for the damage bonus and mez resistance/protection. The defense is cool too, but I don't usually need more of it.

1 hour ago, golstat2003 said:

Correct. if this were Live COH that would be one thing. But there are so many flavors of COH out now that across the board sweeping changes just won’t fly in this age. The devs know the majority like the game easy, but are giving those of us who like challenge from time to time options to get that challenge.

 

And rewarding those that take on that challenge. As they add more of this mode to other TFs and new content, we are good to go.

Honestly, even if this were still "live CoH" it wouldn't happen. ED/GDN took a pretty big chunk off the playerbase back in issue 4-5 and it never recovered. A further sweeping global nerf to character survivability would do the same and it's not like the game had a particularly large playerbase near the end. I'm with you on the rest of your post though.

 

Also, more toward the discussion that's been going on the last couple pages, specifically re: 45% defense being a "problem" on squishies... Squishies have a much smaller HP pool and generally lack any meaningful DDR. The chief issue here is how the argument of defense being overpowered compared to resistance is being presented solely on the basis of math - while math is always a good thing to bring into a discussion it does not always represent reality. For example, I can state that under certain conditions a Ninja/Storm MM does over two and a half times more DPS than any other build in the game and use math to prove it. Believe it or not, this example is actually true exactly as I've described it - but you're not seeing teams full of Ninja/Storm MMs because the math does not reflect actual gameplay conditions.

[Haijinx]

1 hour ago, macskull said:

I dunno about other people but I like Vengeance for the damage bonus and mez resistance/protection. The defense is cool too, but I don't usually need more of it.

Honestly, even if this were still "live CoH" it wouldn't happen. ED/GDN took a pretty big chunk off the playerbase back in issue 4-5 and it never recovered. A further sweeping global nerf to character survivability would do the same and it's not like the game had a particularly large playerbase near the end. I'm with you on the rest of your post though.

 

 

I more meant that tons of people have Vengence, so they also have manuevers.  The manuever spam is real.  

 

I never take any Leadership except on SOA/Widows, or on SS characters (tactics for guassains), but I'm a big outlier.

[golstat2003]

38 minutes ago, Haijinx said:

 

I more meant that tons of people have Vengence, so they also have manuevers.  The manuever spam is real.  

 

I never take any Leadership except on SOA/Widows, or on SS characters (tactics for guassains), but I'm a big outlier.

 

I chuckle every time I see the long row of those Leadership icons when I join a PUG. I'm liiiiiikkkeee "Oh okay it's one of THOSE teams. 😄"

[MsSmart]

I would like to see Defense simplified. Drop the type defense category all together and just keep the positional kind. The type defense, never made much sense to me, for instance I can dodge a ranged fire jet attack shot at me by a rifle, but could not dodge a ranged water jet shot by a rifle, because the water was cold? This just strikes me as rather odd....

 

Sue

[Wavicle]

2 hours ago, MsSmart said:

I would like to see Defense simplified. Drop the type defense category all together and just keep the positional kind. The type defense, never made much sense to me, for instance I can dodge a ranged fire jet attack shot at me by a rifle, but could not dodge a ranged water jet shot by a rifle, because the water was cold? This just strikes me as rather odd....

 

Sue

I think the typed defense is more frequently “deflected“ and “absorbed“, “dodged“ is mostly positional.

 

So the answer is you could not dodge a fire attack. You were able to deflect Heat.

[Rudra]

Which makes sense to me. Have a fire elemental or similar character? Makes sense to not be affected by fire/heat very often (high fire defense), and even when you are, you take low damage (high fire resist), but a water attack can make a mess of you (low cold/smash defense and low cold/smash resist).

[Hyperstrike]

Depends.  Enough heat and you simply turn the water to steam.
Ever see water flash that way?

[Rudra]

Then you also have high cold and smash defense. Regardless, the defense types as is make sense to me.

[macskull]

20 hours ago, MsSmart said:

I would like to see Defense simplified. Drop the type defense category all together and just keep the positional kind. The type defense, never made much sense to me, for instance I can dodge a ranged fire jet attack shot at me by a rifle, but could not dodge a ranged water jet shot by a rifle, because the water was cold? This just strikes me as rather odd....

 

Sue

Biggest issue I see off the bat with this one is it removes variance between the defense-based sets and especially the hybrid res/def sets like Willpower, Bio, and Ice. It'd require quite a bit of work to tweak those sets (and every enemy and player attack in the game) which seems like a bit much for a solution to a non-issue.

[wjrasmussen]

On 1/26/2022 at 3:57 PM, golstat2003 said:

Correct. if this were Live COH that would be one thing. But there are so many flavors of COH out now that across the board sweeping changes just won’t fly in this age. The devs know the majority like the game easy, but are giving those of us who like challenge from time to time options to get that challenge.

 

And rewarding those that take on that challenge. As they add more of this mode to other TFs and new content, we are good to go.

Those players should find a game that caters to their whims and not change the one they are on that doesn't require a massive change.

[xl8]

On 1/19/2022 at 8:55 AM, Sirius.Games said:

The game is easy, let's be honest. You don't need IOs or incarnates for a number of sets. There is a time intensive fix.

I agree the game is too easy at its core, at least for veterans which I would guess make up 80% of players, but defense is not the reason.

There are many AE missions and even incarnate content that floor the defense boosted characters, especially those that have no DDR.

My 70% boosted blaster can have its entire defense red zoned by one praetorian mob.

The changes made to Crey and the new difficulty settings are an excellent step to balancing out the game but atm these settings only apply to TFs.