Do debuffs take too long to apply?

[Greycat]

19 hours ago, Naraka said:

 

You should also be taking into consideration PvP and enemy debuff usage. Do you really want to be having faster activation debuffs used against you by players and spawns of NPCs? Having the chance to retaliate or disrupt before the effect takes a large portion of your stats away could be considered a tactical aspect of gameplay that you're snubbing by making everything faster faster faster.

 

 

Actually, no, PVP's not coming into the equation here, as powers *already* can have separate effects, durations, etc. when in a PVP situation. If it's needed there, it can be tweaked there separately. If it's not, it can be ignored there.

 

And NPCs already have (a) the advantage of numbers and (b) different versions of powers than players have (see: Energy pattern Paragon Protector MOG.) So changing it for players does not necessarily have to do anything to NPCs. NPCs are irrelevant to the discussion.

[Naraka]

2 hours ago, Greycat said:

 

Actually, no, PVP's not coming into the equation here, as powers *already* can have separate effects, durations, etc. when in a PVP situation. If it's needed there, it can be tweaked there separately. If it's not, it can be ignored there.

 

And NPCs already have (a) the advantage of numbers and (b) different versions of powers than players have (see: Energy pattern Paragon Protector MOG.) So changing it for players does not necessarily have to do anything to NPCs. NPCs are irrelevant to the discussion.

 

If we're talking about activation times, then I don't think you're correct regarding PvP.

 

For NPCs, that sort of outlines my point. *IF* their versions of powers got affected with faster activations, it might be a change to help players but it has consequences therefore not a simple power creep change. Because it won't, then it's just power creep since the change has no consequence or fulfills any particular necessity. 

[DougGraves]

3 hours ago, Naraka said:

Because it won't, then it's just power creep since the change has no consequence or fulfills any particular necessity. 

 

My view on power creep is simple.  Taking the top tier builds.  Anything that makes them more powerful is power creep.  Anything that makes other sets more powerful but not better than the top tier builds is not power creep.

 

I would love to see power decreased dramatically - but that would mean nerfing top tier sets and IOs.  Not leaving underpowered sets languishing out of fear that they will become better. 

[Without_Pause]

19 hours ago, Ironblade said:

Doctor Strange and other sorcerors sure do.  Some have all kind of arm waving and incanting.

And now long does it take Goku and others to fire off the Kamehameha attack?

In melee combat?

[ScarySai]

Darkest night and that one rad debuff (I forget which one took forever) have pretty ridiculous cast times. Rad moreso, especially when compared to how fast the other one is.

 

Darkest night is very good when the situation calls for it, though. Dark miasma gives you enough tools where you don't need it every pull.

 

Problem with rad's is it's an extremely important part of your kit.

[roleki]

I run a long list of controllers, corruptors and defenders, but had just kind of 'accepted' the fact that debuffs take forever to unload, but last night I was running my Dark/Storm controller and it struck me just how LOOOONG it takes to drop Tar Patch compared to how (relatively) instantly Lightning Storm and Tornado fire off.  Side by side, the difference is kind of ridiculous.

[Shred Monkey]

Crazy idea here.... but I'm wondering if debuffs that don't do damage should not cause agro.  I'm thinking you could pre-debuff spawns without agro'ing the spawn, making the dubuffs more useful.  .. a debuffer could stay slightly ahead of the group and have the next spawn debuffed in time with the arrival of the tank instead of having to wait for the tank to get agro, then debuffing, and causing the issue that the OP described.

 

I'm sure this would fully fix the problem... but I'm also not sure there's a problem that needs fixed.   But I thought the idea sounded interesting enough to share.

[Apparition]

10 minutes ago, Shred Monkey said:

Crazy idea here.... but I'm wondering if debuffs that don't do damage should not cause agro.  I'm thinking you could pre-debuff spawns without agro'ing the spawn, making the dubuffs more useful.  .. a debuffer could stay slightly ahead of the group and have the next spawn debuffed in time with the arrival of the tank instead of having to wait for the tank to get agro, then debuffing, and causing the issue that the OP described.

 

I'm sure this would fully fix the problem... but I'm also not sure there's a problem that needs fixed.   But I thought the idea sounded interesting enough to share.

 

NOOOO thank you.  I actually like that debuffs aggro mobs and intentionally use that on Dark Miasma and Radiation Emission characters to tank with, (sometimes better than actual tanks).  I consider Darkest Night, Radiation Infection, and Enervating Field as taunt toggles just as much as debuff toggles.

[Naraka]

1 hour ago, Apparition said:

 

NOOOO thank you.  I actually like that debuffs aggro mobs and intentionally use that on Dark Miasma and Radiation Emission characters to tank with, (sometimes better than actual tanks).  I consider Darkest Night, Radiation Infection, and Enervating Field as taunt toggles just as much as debuff toggles.

I think debuffs that don't aggro is a feature to some powers. There could be more (one I can think of are Flash Arrow) but certainly not all of them. That's just too easy lol

[Solarverse]

Unless you are doing some extreme content, debuffs are practically useless. Even on most TF's the AV dies in less seconds than I can count with two hands. I am with the OP, debuffs in today's game take way too long to apply, mobs/bosses/AVs die far too quickly. It is what it is though, it's the game the people wanted, so it's the game the people got.

Prior to all the countless complaints of how hard the game was, debuffs were actually in a very good place. Power creep/"make the game easier" kind of threw dirt on debuffs in this game IMO.

Now, before anyone quotes me with a snarky comment, keep in mind, it's just my unpopular and almost never shared point of view...which has not once made a single damn difference in this game.

[Snarky]

In my opinion….  It varies greatly.  On a PUG ROFLSTOMP team running +4 council….probably going to be a freaking waste.  On a tough incarnate boss fight or the new Dr Aeon at Master Badge level or above…could be useful.  And they will be adding more complexity to the older TFs as they have time to do so.  
 

Knowing how to effectively run a debuffer and WHEN to use a debuffer is one of the turning points to becoming a truly proficient player.  They are useful.  Just not always the best choice.  Then again I Am maining a Brute.  Useful, not always the ‘best’ choice.  I do haul out a Blaster or Corruptor to help with SG incarnate trials though.  

Edited March 6, 2022 by Snarky

[oedipus_tex]

To be completely fair, on Controllers past a certain level, some of the debuffs have always served as backups rather than must-cast powers. This is how I think a lot of players have treated the toggles in Nature, Dark, etc. Those powers are more of a Defender/Corruptor thing or a fallback if for some reason you can't control the enemies (e.g. they are good for the all boss packs in the ITF). 

 

The exception is anything with -Resist. On a steamroll team you usually still try to cast those powers. Most debuff sets will have at least one somewhere in the power line up. A few (Sonic Resonance and Poison) even get Resist debuffs that don't require clicks.