Sudden Acceleration: Knockback to Knockdown

[TheZag]

Knockback and knockdown are no longer required to be based on the magnitude of the knock.  Its possible to have a power with 20 magnitude knockdown or 3 magnitude knockback.  The devs just havent made any changes to knockback powers yet except for singularity.  It uses the new knock system to do that anti repel 'vaccuum' effect.

 

We should wait and see what the devs do with the upgraded knock system.  Its likely that they wont be making any changes to knockback until they convert powers using the old knockback system over to the new knock system.

[MHertz]

56 minutes ago, kelika2 said:

people spend at least a few hundred million per alt to perma hasten them.  For some folks, theres no other way to go

How many people? I have only had two toons so far that even earned that much, much less spent that amount on IOs for perma-anything.

 

This idea only acts as an incentive for people who already try to spend a ton to optimize in a specific way.

[kelika2]

14 minutes ago, MHertz said:

How many people? I have only had two toons so far that even earned that much, much less spent that amount on IOs for perma-anything.

Hard to say, really.  Only thing we can go on is the market and which IOs are more in demand

[UltraAlt]

18 hours ago, kelika2 said:

Add a Smashing damage proc to it in addition changing knockback to knockdown.

 

Don't slot it.

It's for the knockback naysayers. It is NOT for your character with the knock back power.

When you slot it, you are giving up a slot or slots for other players.

 

Knockback is more of a soft hold than knockdown is.

There aren't procs that stop slow, -def, etc.

 

There is a mindset to some players that are mostly or just end-game players (that includes speed/stealth running lower lever task forces). This mindset means that many powers can't keep up with the breakneck speed that some people want.

 

I let myself be browbeaten when I first came back to the game.

No more.

 

Knockback is perfectly valid. Most character that have it as a defense mechanism.

And I mean that even for melee characters. if you can knock one or more away from you and concentrate on the ones that remain close, you are preventing whichever ones you knocked back for the time being.

For squishies?! Yeah, knock those guys away from you; that IS the whole point. If you are good at it you can even pin a boss down and keep them down in a corner or against a wall.

 

Don't let others tell you that you can't use your powers, but try to be part of a team when you are on a team. Any team needs to gel to work better with each other. It's better when everyone is trying to gel. The person that isn't trying to gel with the rest of the team is NOT acting as a team mate.

There seems to be a good number of players that don't want to bother teaming with others and expect them to behave as NPCs.

 

[UltraAlt]

1 hour ago, MHertz said:

How many people? I have only had two toons so far that even earned that much, much less spent that amount on IOs for perma-anything.

 

The game has things built into it that are intended to take time to accomplish.

Obviously, that includes leveling up a character, but farming (and less so at this point, power-leveling) pretty much threw that out the window.

Badge hunting is an obvious one. 

Day job are really time consuming.

And, yeah, finding recipes and salvage, crafting, catalyzing, slotting, and unslotting.

All these things are put there in games to prolong the longevity of the game (except for the Farming and Powerleveling, of course)

 

But I will be honest. I understand. I didn't earn that much before issue 9. I had characters that didn't have enough influence to fully slot with training enhancements.

Issue 9 was the turning point in the game.

Before that point, it was obvious how much more XP damage dealers received as opposed to those that buffed, debuffed or healed team mates. Damage dealers leveled faster and gained more influence far faster. I would be on a team with a "support" character keeping the team alive and they would gain what it seemed to be 2 or 3 levels to my one.

Issue 9 was the turning point.
Once I could craft and sell, it was easier to keep fully slotted.

The same mindset that keep people plowing ahead to do lots of damage and not care about their teammate were having to pay me to buy enhancements because they were too impulsive and didn't have time to bother with crafting. 

 

[kelika2]

24 minutes ago, UltraAlt said:

There aren't procs that stop slow

Now that you mention it, many melee ice armor types would benefit a lot from having the -rech but without the -speed

[Rudra]

I will never agree that the KB to KD proc in Sudden Acceleration is an enhancement tax. They can slot the set instead of just the proc. The set includes damage buffs already built in, both as direct enhancement boosts and as a set bonus. So what that it has 3 enhancements that boost damage instead of the unique set Overwhelming Force's 5. Look at sets like Eradication, which are damage boosting sets. They have 4 damage boosting enhancements, just 1 more than the set whose purpose is to enhance your knockback. So they slot the set and instead of needing 2.3 attacks to kill the target, they need 2.7. *gasp*

 

The proc does something useful. KD is a big advantage. It keeps the target(s) from being able to attack you. Just like KB does, except now they stay at your feet. Saying the proc is an enhancement tax is like saying any other proc is an enhancement tax because the player chose not to use the set. They all give you a definitive benefit. I don't care how many Min/Max'ers say it is a tax. Those are the same players that think the game is too easy and needs to be made more difficult. While clamoring for things that will make the game easier. I know this opinion is unpopular. I know I'm going to get burned for saying this. I don't care. Sudden Acceleration does not need a damage proc added to the proc effect.

[Andreah]

11 minutes ago, Rudra said:

I know I'm going to get burned for saying this. I don't care. Sudden Acceleration does not need a damage proc added to the proc effect.

I agree.

 

I have the full set and I use the proc individually. I do so because, on the whole, I'm better off for it. The Set has good bonuses, and when I don't want KB on a power, getting rid of it is worth a slot.

 

If there are people who're reluctant to slot it on your team, and it's important to you, the team leader, that no one have knockback on your team, tell them so politely, and then kick them. You can find new folks better suited to your team composition desires, and they can find team leaders better suited to theirs.

[MTeague]

1 hour ago, kelika2 said:

Now that you mention it, many melee ice armor types would benefit a lot from having the -rech but without the -speed

 

Okay, I'll bite. What is even remotely bad about Ice slowing the movement speed of NPC's?

[kelika2]

1 minute ago, MTeague said:

 

Okay, I'll bite. What is even remotely bad about Ice slowing the movement speed of NPC's?

Most of the times its some overzealous ice controller popping everything in an ungathered group, makes AoEing with ranged alts a pain in the ass and a nightmare for melee

[MTeague]

33 minutes ago, Rudra said:

The proc does something useful. KD is a big advantage. 

 

Depending on the power. 

• Tornado benefits wonderfully from KB-to-KD, because mobs stay in the tornado longer and take damage longer. 
• Gale can be situational.  Making a squad of mobs flop down but not move, can be useful, but there's also times I prefer to ragdoll them some distance into a corner. 
• Power Thrust or Force Bolt I would never want a KB-to-KD in, sending the enemy FAR is the point of the power, it's a "Get outta my FACE!" tool.
• Buckshot / M-30 grenade, I can definitely see KD being better, particullarly if you've already sprayed an Ignite patch.

[Luminara]

Chauffer!  CHAUFFER!  Why did you make me raise my voice?  Remind me to fire you later.  Now trundle the limo to the next spawn and have them line up outside of the door, so I don't have to stand up to defeat them.

[MTeague]

4 minutes ago, kelika2 said:

Most of the times its some overzealous ice controller popping everything in an ungathered group, makes AoEing with ranged alts a pain in the ass and a nightmare for melee

 

We clearly take very different approaches to the game and value different things.

 

I honestly don't care if my AoE's hit 4 mobs or 16 mobs.  I shoot at what's avaialble. It's not like it's going to genuinely matter to me if a mission takes 4 or 5 minutes to clear, or whether a TF takes 20 minutes or 45 minutes, at long as I was on a team where people were using their powers and enjoying themselves. I'm not going to say your way is wrong. But I am going to say some of your suggestions are probably best handled by who you choose to team with vs altering basic powers/effects that have been in the game since launch.

[Rudra]

10 minutes ago, MTeague said:

 

Depending on the power. 

• Tornado benefits wonderfully from KB-to-KD, because mobs stay in the tornado longer and take damage longer. 
• Gale can be situational.  Making a squad of mobs flop down but not move, can be useful, but there's also times I prefer to ragdoll them some distance into a corner. 
• Power Thrust or Force Bolt I would never want a KB-to-KD in, sending the enemy FAR is the point of the power, it's a "Get outta my FACE!" tool.
• Buckshot / M-30 grenade, I can definitely see KD being better, particullarly if you've already sprayed an Ignite patch.

Please do not misconstrue my rant... I mean post... no, definitely rant.

 I know KB is a good thing. I like bowling for dollars or playing pinball with my enemies' bodies. I thought I kept that part clear in my rant/post. If not, I apologize for necessitating you to clarify.

[kelika2]

10 minutes ago, MTeague said:

 

We clearly take very different approaches to the game and value different things.

 

I honestly don't care if my AoE's hit 4 mobs or 16 mobs.  I shoot at what's avaialble. It's not like it's going to genuinely matter to me if a mission takes 4 or 5 minutes to clear, or whether a TF takes 20 minutes or 45 minutes, at long as I was on a team where people were using their powers and enjoying themselves. I'm not going to say your way is wrong. But I am going to say some of your suggestions are probably best handled by who you choose to team with vs altering basic powers/effects that have been in the game since launch.

For someone who is so easy going i the game, you are are unrelenting on the forums.

 

I just wanted to put my suggestion in the box to improve the "slot tax" but just being replied to by the same 10 people LARPing as Judge, Jury and Devcutioner is getting old

[kelika2]

21 minutes ago, Luminara said:

Chauffer!  CHAUFFER!  Why did you make me raise my voice?  Remind me to fire you later.  Now trundle the limo to the next spawn and have them line up outside of the door, so I don't have to stand up to defeat them.

I know you joke now, but we both know you sit around waiting for TT after stealthing/speeding a mission at least once or twice.

[Naraka]

41 minutes ago, kelika2 said:

For someone who is so easy going i the game, you are are unrelenting on the forums.

 

I just wanted to put my suggestion in the box to improve the "slot tax" but just being replied to by the same 10 people LARPing as Judge, Jury and Devcutioner is getting old

As a devil's advocate, I appreciate your willingness to put your ideas out there.

 

But on the other end of the spectrum of criticism for the idea, I don't think it'd be unreasonable to have the proc added BUT procs are still hotly debated as is. I was surprised to find out that added some more while I took a break.

[Luminara]

Just now, kelika2 said:

I know you joke now, but we both know you sit around waiting for TT after stealthing/speeding a mission at least once or twice.

 

I don't have Assemble the Team, Team Transporter or Mission Transporter on any of my characters.  I only use LRT or the Ouroboros portal when I'm at an extreme distance from the zone transfer point(s).  The charges of Teleport to Base and Rapid Response Portal I've accumulated are unused on all of my characters.  My base has no teleport pads.  I only use the Teleport to Contact function of Ouroboros when I'm starting a flashback mission.  I shut off my travel powers when I reach the mission door, I rarely ghost and I don't do speed runs.  What you've said in no way represents how, or why, I play.

 

And since you seem to want me to participate in this thread, I'll also point out that my peacebringer has 5 KB->KD enhancements slotted, and I adamantly disagree with your proposal, and the reason you've given for it.  I'm not upset at having spent those five slots on those enhancements, I don't consider them to be a tax, I'm grateful that I have the option to use them.  Those enhancements turn the relevant powers into strong soft controls which significantly aid in survivability and greatly improve my ability to deal damage.  As long as those enhancements remain slotted, I'm neutering the enemy's ability to respond and ensuring that they're within range of my most powerful attacks.  The KB->KD enhancements already provide extra damage by allowing us to use our more powerful attacks as soon as they've recharged, rather than wasting some of that post-recharge time pursuing enemies or repositioning.

 

Adding basic proc damage to the enhancements is neither necessary nor warranted, and the request comes across not as a suggestion to improve the game, but as unbridled avarice coupled with a selfish disregard for the game's health.

[Glacier Peak]

2 hours ago, kelika2 said:

For someone who is so easy going i the game, you are are unrelenting on the forums.

 

I just wanted to put my suggestion in the box to improve the "slot tax" but just being replied to by the same 10 people LARPing as Judge, Jury and Devcutioner is getting old

This is a public square 😄

[Bionic_Flea]

45 minutes ago, Luminara said:

I don't have Assemble the Team, Team Transporter or Mission Transporter on any of my characters.  I only use LRT or the Ouroboros portal when I'm at an extreme distance from the zone transfer point(s).  The charges of Teleport to Base and Rapid Response Portal I've accumulated are unused on all of my characters.  My base has no teleport pads.  I only use the Teleport to Contact function of Ouroboros when I'm starting a flashback mission.  I shut off my travel powers when I reach the mission door, I rarely ghost and I don't do speed runs.  What you've said in no way represents how, or why, I play.

 

I knew that you were a little . . . out there.  But I had no idea you were this far gone.

 

@Jimmy!!  We need you back now more than ever to teach Luminara how to play the Right Way^TM

[kelika2]

47 minutes ago, Luminara said:

And since you seem to want me to participate in this thread

No, you opened the door yourself by walking in on your own terms.  Me defending myself should not wash away your responsibility

[Naraka]

2 hours ago, kelika2 said:

No, you opened the door yourself by walking in on your own terms.  Me defending myself should not wash away your responsibility

You have to take some self responsibility too.

 

If I make a suggestion and people criticize it, I can just leave their advice to stand or I can describe my intent and leave it to them to either respond or further criticize the suggestion. Once you start agitating to get a reaction, you can't then deflect that intent. You were clearly trying to get a rise or reaction...I know because I do it all the time.

[kelika2]

1 hour ago, Naraka said:

You have to take some self responsibility too.

 

If I make a suggestion and people criticize it, I can just leave their advice to stand or I can describe my intent and leave it to them to either respond or further criticize the suggestion. Once you start agitating to get a reaction, you can't then deflect that intent. You were clearly trying to get a rise or reaction...I know because I do it all the time.

I missed the criticism in Lumi's post on page1.  Just sounded mean spirited

[DoctorDitko]

I like that the OP is trying to incentivize their desired behavior in teammates.

(Rather than the all-too-oft suggested punish the undesired.)

Grats!

 

As a stormie nut, I have to agree with MTeague: KB->KD transforms Tornado from skippable to essential. Gale can go either way. 

But Hurricane must never see a KB->KD. It ruins the power. Lightning Storm, you can avoid needing to slot KB->KD if you hover or CJ up to fire it off. From a 45 degree angle, KB and KD are extremely similar.

 

But, on the off chance I wind up on a team with KB-phobia, I keep a couple KB->KD enhancements and a bunch of Unslotters handy at all times.

 

 

[UltraAlt]

9 hours ago, DoctorDitko said:

As a stormie nut, I have to agree with MTeague: KB->KD transforms Tornado from skippable to essential. Gale can go either way. 

But Hurricane must never see a KB->KD. It ruins the power. Lightning Storm, you can avoid needing to slot KB->KD if you hover or CJ up to fire it off. From a 45 degree angle, KB and KD are extremely similar.

 

I'm telling Eris that you are trying to actively constrain chaos.

She will not be pleased.