What Can Be Done to Recruit Players?

[Ghost]

I’ll run some tonight!

[Darmian]

4 minutes ago, Ghost said:

I’ll run some tonight!

LOL, cheers.

 

 

[Darmian]

6 minutes ago, Ghost said:

I’ll run some tonight!

If you have queries or even just complaints(!) I'm happy to respond to them. All goes into the pot for making future stuff.

[Crysis]

This is an old, very old by gaming standards, game.  And it was officially killed over a decade ago.  Many players left for good back then and many of those players a) don't even know the game is back and b) don't really care.  The superhero genre was never big back in the heyday of COH Live and it's certainly not today, although that does actually intrigue me given we are witnessing the golden age of Marvel and DC movies.  But maybe that's actually part of the issue....there's far more visually stunning outlets to get your superhero 'fix' now rather than a recycled game from 2012.  

 

And honestly, are MMO's still a really big thing these days?  Multiplayer gaming is very mature now and there's a lot of other games to pull in players who enjoy cooperative playstyles.  I think the rise and fall of the MMO came about with the rise of mobile gaming and people who used to spend hours grinding out a level or two now spend 10 minutes every other hour playing a mission on their phone to some other game because that's the lifestyle today.

 

Honestly, I think this is about what we can expect from here on out.  One shard, about an average of 700-1000 active players, slowly folding in on itself over how ever many years are left.  Will I miss it when it's gone, if its gone for good?  Yes, to a degree.  But already been through that separation anxiety once and hey....I managed to find other gaming outlets to scratch that itch.  I'll do so again.  In fact, even now, I find I've more alts available than I have time to level them and with that desire to level them.  The game mechanics haven't changed, the new content is neat and all but it's still the same enemy AI and behaviors against different maps and it's the same game, played the same way, with different power combo's but still a zerg-fest of DPS rules and nobody else really matters at endgame.  I have gaming buddies who herd everything regardless of tactics and all the enemies are the same AI so they simply bunch up while we rain DPS on them until they die.  Rinse and repeat.  Crafting system has come and gone many years ago and really...what's left?

 

COVID brought about a massive work-from-home movement, and I can't speak for everyone else, but I often had games running in a side window when I was listening in to some drone buzzing about P&L statements for hours.  Even while on video (just don't wear glasses!).  And the release of this game benefitted from the stay at home shift when nostalgia and retro-gaming got this big lift.  We enjoyed it as well.  Rising tide lifted ALL boats, ours included.  But now, we have a leaky boat and well.....we are sinking.  And will continue to sink.  

 

So the question is....why should I recruit someone to come play this game for the first time?  It's free, sure.  But there's gobs of free games out there.  Most of which I can get with a single download from the App store or even Xbox or PS or Steam stores.  Not something that requires me to download this sketchy launcher and then learn how to use a quaint keyboard and mouse combo to activate my powers.  

 

It's old.  It's retro.  Just like the vast majority of us players are.  And it's dying.  Just like we are as well.  Some of us faster than others but all things must come to an end.

 

I'll play here until it sunsets again, but I've got so many other options (I'm literally resting my thumbs from a Steam Deck session as I type this) available to me now that I just don't really care if it dies again.  Not enough to go out and recruit a bunch of players at any rate.  I love finding old friends here, but I've found many of them in other games also.  The game can die and that's fine.  Friendships will still prevail if they were truly more than casual acquaintances.  

 

 

[Crysis]

On 4/22/2022 at 6:33 PM, roleki said:

They should stop awarding inf and xp altogether, and convert all rewards to audio signals.  

 

Or shitcan farming, that makes as much sense.

 

I still believe shitcanning farming is part of the player population decline.  And not for the reasons most would think.  Farmers automatically had multiple accounts....it's part of the farming lifestyle.  You shitcan the results, you shitcan the "spare accounts" and are left with 2/3 to 1/2 of the ACTIVE playing population.  Thus....some of this is an illusion.  We -never- had the "active" population we thought we had.

 

Selection bias I'm sure but....I have 5 accounts here.  I used to play 3-4 of them at a time, always observing the max account rules.  I only have two now and my farming account is only used to powerfarm an alt to 32 or so in 30 mins.  And while I literally used to create almost a new alt a day, I'm maybe down to one new alt per week, if that.  I tend to have "farming" days where I mass create a bunch of new alts to add to the 'reserve library' for future use.  But I just quit rolling them out, leveling them up and kitting them out with IO builds.  I used to enjoy that (not everybody would) and then played them actively from mid 30's to 50 over the course of a week or so.  Now?  Just not into it like I once was.   Thus....you "had" 5 players (all Crysis).  You now "have" 1.2 players.  If that.  And I'm playing maybe 2-4 hours per week tops whereas I used to be playing 10-15 hours per week.....even more if you considered all my alt accounts.  Just not there now, other games to occupy my time.  Hell, I'm playing D&D again, mostly virtually, and at least one Champions campaign, also virtually.  Those are high-interaction gaming sessions.  The world, as they say, has changed.  And for us....it may have changed in ways we just didn't recognize at the time.  

Edited April 27, 2022 by Crysis

[kiramon]

14 hours ago, ShardWarrior said:

 

 

Something to consider here that @Neiska mentioned earlier in the thread.  Potential new players reading these forums are going to see comments like these.  Ascribing a negative connotation to farming and the sheer intolerance to those who might enjoy that as an activity is toxic.  It does not help to foster a sense of community.  Just my 2 inf.

 

No.

[brasilgringo]

On 4/22/2022 at 11:32 AM, Bill Z Bubba said:

Today was the first morning in ages that I've logged on. For quite a while now, the extent of my game time was logging in maybe once a week for a single TF at night, then right back off. My brother and I discussed this, as he hasn't logged on in over 5 months, and it appears that while we were both ecstatic for the return of CoH, we've both gotten from it about all we can.

 

I don't think this is something that can be fixed and much less fixed with curbing farming or adding more stuff.

 

The game is old. It feels old. It looks old. It has old design philosophies. It has an old playerbase. I suspect the vast majority of us are only around due to nostalgia. It'll be around this time until it's not again. I'm grateful that BZB was able to live once more but I've no illusions about the future.

I still really enjoy it. I make alts, I run speedy TFs, I smash Pylons.  I enjoy the teaming and the powers and the costumes.  It's a fun escape and I play when I can. After live shut down I tried other games like Guild Wars / 2 and SWTOR, but COH is so much more fun.  Was so happy when I rediscovered it.  Sure, I alt farm to 50 in 5 hours, but that's so I can try new sets and see what my dps can be.  Feels like a lot of haters in this thread.

[SwitchFade]

For years, I have lamented on several factors increasing attrition and causing the game to fail to endear itself to new players. Here we are, and those factors exist and cause people to leave, cause new players to not form an attachment and the population stagnates.

 

AE should not be accessable from zones where new players begin their journey, such as atlas, KR or Steel.

 

DFB should not be a rinse and repeat to 15.

 

Contact system does not lend itself to fluid immersion and progression

 

AE and DFB spam will, invariably, catch most new players, blinding them to the immersion of the game, whereupon they will actually experience what veterans did in the early days that made us come back and stay

 

Incarnate attacks should not be usable below lvl 49

 

Inventions learning curve is steep, the tutorial needs to be improved

 

Insta-travel causes everyone to completely ignore MMO zones, doing this causes newcomers to assume this is an instanced only game, they do not fall in love with how truly grande in scale the game is. Base porters, mission porters, etc are far too common.

 

The bottom line is, we only get a trickle of new people finding us and if we don't do the absolute most to assure retention, the player base will continue to shrink. Until we can advertise, this is reality and debating about how or why someone doesn't want others to "play their way" does not negate the facts: newbies will get zerg-rushed to 50, never see the zones, not spend time figuring things out, get bored with the lack of depth, assume there's very little to the game and move on.

 

A society reaches permanence when old men plant trees of which the shade they will never know. If the veterans continue to think only in jaded terms about how they hate so and so, want to play such and such way, ignoring other perspectives, inevitable decline is assured.

 

Societies must focus on the good of the whole and the enrichment of new members to assure that growth and benevolence are integral aspects of the culture.

 

And no, I do not think farming should be removed, it's fine, but it should not be front and center in your face for new players before level 20. Not spammed in chat, not accessible easily. And before it gets brought up, yes we used to hoof it to PI to get on farms, and that's ok, so long as new players don't see it in chat and don't know about it before level 20.

Edited April 27, 2022 by SwitchFade

[Darmian]

13 minutes ago, SwitchFade said:

Incarnate attacks should not be usable below lvl 49

I'm definitely on board with this.  

[BurtHutt]

11 hours ago, actiontvstar said:

Love this idea

Why does this idea sound so, so familiar.... 🙂 

[Excraft]

For the people still whining about the AE and incarnates and P2W... correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't a lot of this what Rebirth tried to do to be closer to what the game was on live?  Last I remember, that server didn't have anywhere near the population this server one does.  That should tell you something very loud and very clear about what players are looking for.  Cake introduced a whole bunch of new powersets, instant 50s etc. and that's a low population too. 

 

What's good in all of that is that there's now a variety and players can choose the style that best fits them.  They can do that here too.  No one forces anyone to jump into AE and farm or get double XP boosters.  You can level any way you like here and that's a good thing IMO.

[UltraAlt]

22 hours ago, ShardWarrior said:

Ascribing a negative connotation to farming and the sheer intolerance to those who might enjoy that as an activity is toxic.

 

AE farming is one of the main reasons that I stopped subscribing to City of Heroes - almost exactly a year before it sunset.

I tolerate famers here. I still think Farming is very harmful to a new players' longevity of gameplay.

There is no reason to bring in new players and then burn them out with farming in order to to rush them into the end-game instead of actually letting them play the game content which is the first 50 levels which would give them time to love the game because they will have become invested in it. 

 

What you are doing is rushing them past all the learning and dumping them in the deep-end with the messed-up incarnate system that they can't power-level though. They have to GRIND. 

I can't really understand the players that like Grinding. I hate grinding.

 

If you are pro-farming, that's your thing.

I think farming is very detrimental to player retention.

 

Edited April 27, 2022 by UltraAlt

[UltraAlt]

6 hours ago, BurtHutt said:

18 hours ago, actiontvstar said:

Love this idea

Why does this idea sound so, so familiar.... 🙂 

 

 

[Cancrusher]

1 hour ago, Excraft said:

For the people still whining about the AE and incarnates and P2W... correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't a lot of this what Rebirth tried to do to be closer to what the game was on live?  Last I remember, that server didn't have anywhere near the population this server one does.  That should tell you something very loud and very clear about what players are looking for.  Cake introduced a whole bunch of new powersets, instant 50s etc. and that's a low population too. 

 

What's good in all of that is that there's now a variety and players can choose the style that best fits them.  They can do that here too.  No one forces anyone to jump into AE and farm or get double XP boosters.  You can level any way you like here and that's a good thing IMO.

You are correct.  I've played on all of these servers.  I always come back to Homecoming (well named, isn't it?  😉).

 

The population problem is due to the fact that this is a niche game that is almost 20 years old.  It has die hard fans and a certain number of them (a fairly large number) will always love and be devoted to playing it, for as long as it remains available to play.  But those hard core players are the ones who remain (us) after the initial thrill of the announcement that COH was back.  Probably, the total number of players does not support the number of shards that we have available, and those playing on the small population servers will have to make the very hard decision to migrate, regardless of how much of a PITA that may be (I do sympathize, particularly with those that have spent considerable time building base, but it is what it is).

 

I play on Everlasting and there are many active supergroups and always people to team with day and night.  I consider the population to be satisfactory (even more than adequate) and continue to have a great time.  I think, with regard to player population, active players need to be practical and realistic about their expectations regarding this beloved (but very old) game.

 

I know there will those who continue to beat the drum, insisting that we can attract a whole new legion of players to this game.  If you're right, swell- more power to you.  By all means, do recruit them.  I have nothing against more players.  However, I think you'll be disappointed in the payoff for your efforts.

 

Just one guys opinion and all that jazz.  YMMV.  Etc.

[ShardWarrior]

17 minutes ago, UltraAlt said:

AE farming is one of the main reasons that I stopped subscribing to City of Heroes - almost exactly a year before it sunset.

I tolerate famers here. I still think Farming is very harmful to a new players' longevity of gameplay.

There is no reason to bring in new players and then burn them out with farming in order to to rush them into the end-game instead of actually letting them play the game content which is the first 50 levels which would give them time to love the game because they will have become invested in it. 

 

What you are doing is rushing them past all the learning and dumping them in the deep-end with the messed-up incarnate system that they can't power-level though. They have to GRIND. 

I can't really understand the players that like Grinding. I hate grinding.

 

If you are pro-farming, that's your thing.

I think farming is very detrimental to player retention.

 

 

I do not necessarily disagree with you.  What I am suggesting is the manner in which people are expressing their opinions could use a little empathy.  It is one thing to say you do not care for farming.  It is entirely another thing to constantly lament about it ruining the game, endlessly calling for it to be nerfed or removed entirely and shunning anyone who might enjoy it as social outcasts who are unworthy to be here.  The tone you are using puts off a very toxic vibe that potential new players will pick up on.

 

Preferences are subjective to the individual.  Again, just as you left the game because of farming, I personally know a great many people who came back to it because of it.  They got tired of that 1 to 50 grind and the ability to skip that to create all new characters to enjoy was a big bonus for them.  New players who might want to try PvP in the game who do not enjoy grinding out multiple characters may also value farming.

 

There is nothing wrong with disliking something.  Personally, I very much dislike PvP.  With that said, I most certainly would never discourage anyone from it nor would I advocate that it be removed or force those who enjoy it into a playstyle they do not care for. 

 

1 hour ago, Excraft said:

For the people still whining about the AE and incarnates and P2W... correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't a lot of this what Rebirth tried to do to be closer to what the game was on live?  Last I remember, that server didn't have anywhere near the population this server one does. 

 

Good point.  As far as I know, these other servers did not have the streaming restrictions that Homecoming had.  They are not attracting legions of new players either. 

Edited April 27, 2022 by ShardWarrior

[SwitchFade]

1 hour ago, Excraft said:

For the people still whining about the AE and incarnates and P2W... correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't a lot of this what Rebirth tried to do to be closer to what the game was on live?  Last I remember, that server didn't have anywhere near the population this server one does.  That should tell you something very loud and very clear about what players are looking for.  Cake introduced a whole bunch of new powersets, instant 50s etc. and that's a low population too. 

 

What's good in all of that is that there's now a variety and players can choose the style that best fits them.  They can do that here too.  No one forces anyone to jump into AE and farm or get double XP boosters.  You can level any way you like here and that's a good thing IMO.

Directly ascribing "whining" to people who have a perspective you obviously disagree with is hardly conducive to mutual understanding, it merely renders every word after it suspect.

 

Failing to consider facts, regardless of preference, is a fallacy that has but one conclusion, finally.

 

New players dumped directly into the afore mentioned "zerg" paths has -and will continue to- leave a less than spectacular impression, followed swiftly by egress.

 

You should absolutely get to enjoy the aspects of the game you currently do, WITHOUT the negative impact on new players. That's a fair and pragmatic solution for a well balanced and growing society.

[Ukase]

10 hours ago, Crysis said:

So the question is....why should I recruit someone to come play this game for the first time?  It's free, sure.  But there's gobs of free games out there.  Most of which I can get with a single download from the App store or even Xbox or PS or Steam stores.  Not something that requires me to download this sketchy launcher and then learn how to use a quaint keyboard and mouse combo to activate my powers.  

 

It's old.  It's retro.  Just like the vast majority of us players are.  And it's dying.  Just like we are as well.  Some of us faster than others but all things must come to an end.

 

How in the blue hell do you consider a keyboard and mouse "quaint"? 

The game isn't old. It's just older. Pong is old. This game will have many years ahead if the current HC team continues to allow us to donate and keep it going. 

[ShardWarrior]

13 minutes ago, SwitchFade said:

New players dumped directly into the afore mentioned "zerg" paths has -and will continue to- leave a less than spectacular impression, followed swiftly by egress.

 

I have to ask, where are all these masses of new players that were instantly AE farmed to 50, got bored and swiftly quit you are describing here?  I would love to see some Reddit posts or something where they discuss their impressions en masse. 

[Cancrusher]

22 minutes ago, Ukase said:

How in the blue hell do you consider a keyboard and mouse "quaint"? 

The game isn't old. It's just older. Pong is old. This game will have many years ahead if the current HC team continues to allow us to donate and keep it going. 

No, guy- look.  I LOVE this game.  But, yeah, it's old.  Pong isn't old- it's a historical artifact (just like me, who played it shortly after it came out).

[Excraft]

40 minutes ago, SwitchFade said:

Failing to consider facts, regardless of preference, is a fallacy that has but one conclusion, finally.

 

New players dumped directly into the afore mentioned "zerg" paths has -and will continue to- leave a less than spectacular impression, followed swiftly by egress.

 

Ok.  Share some of these "facts" with us then.  Can you post links to empirical data from Homecoming or any of the other CoH servers showing how many of these new players came in, got insta PLed to 50 then quit because of farming?  Would love to see these "facts" of yours. 

 

42 minutes ago, SwitchFade said:

You should absolutely get to enjoy the aspects of the game you currently do, WITHOUT the negative impact on new players. That's a fair and pragmatic solution for a well balanced and growing society.

 

You can already enjoy the aspects of the game you want to here.  No ones forcing anyone into doing something they don't want to do here.  Following your logic here, PvP, marketeering, RP, speed runs or whatever other play style you don't like should get removed because someone can find some negative aspect to them.  Where exactly does that end? 

[Oklahoman]

51 minutes ago, Ukase said:

This game will have many years ahead if the current HC team continues to allow us to donate and keep it going.

...and the rightful owner continues to choose not to take any legal action.

[Ukase]

34 minutes ago, Cancrusher said:

No, guy- look.  I LOVE this game.  But, yeah, it's old.  Pong isn't old- it's a historical artifact (just like me, who played it shortly after it came out).

No worries...but the use of quaint in reference to keyboard and mouse, tools that will be with us for at least another 20-40 years is hardly what I would call quaint. 

[ForeverLaxx]

I find it interesting that the mere suggestion that AE be moved out of the starting zones is being interpreted as "delete AE from the entire game." I don't know if I'd go so far as to remove them from mid-level zones, but you can argue against this idea without building the "you just want farming to die" strawman first. It usually helps.

[Crysis]

2 hours ago, Ukase said:

How in the blue hell do you consider a keyboard and mouse "quaint"? 

The game isn't old. It's just older. Pong is old. This game will have many years ahead if the current HC team continues to allow us to donate and keep it going. 

Scotty was old.  McCoy was old.

 

Keyboard…..how “quaint.”

 

 

[ShardWarrior]

59 minutes ago, ForeverLaxx said:

I find it interesting that the mere suggestion that AE be moved out of the starting zones is being interpreted as "delete AE from the entire game." I don't know if I'd go so far as to remove them from mid-level zones, but you can argue against this idea without building the "you just want farming to die" strawman first. It usually helps.

 

I am not sure this is correct to suggest this is a strawman and that you are confusing separate points in the thread.  There are a few people here who are of the opinion farming is the reason the game is in population decline and that AE should get removed completely because it is driving new players away.   I believe that is who the counter arguments are directed to.