Freedom Corps and Longbow, terrorist or mercenary organizations.

[The_Warpact]

Watching the continued actions brought up a few questions. Namely, where did they come from, who finances them, and what is their mission?

So after looking up some things, some of which were easy enough.

Statesman and Miss Liberty started Freedom Corps, which Statesman himself in 2005 said the were the counterbalance to the "Hero Corps" who use supers as paid mercenaries. 

Ok ..so how are they funded then? Through Paragon City? Or the US government? Even if they file as a charity they have to have income. Alot of questions with no answers. 

 

Now that being said, Longbow which was started by Ms. Liberty is the military wing of the "Freedom Corps ". Another organization with deceptive business practices and even shadier ways of being financed. It is stated that recruitment is from all over and munitions and training is from NATO. Which by their very definition is a militia of idealistic recruits, which sounds more like a murderous military cult. Once again how us everything funded?

 

So now we have that info that they are a NATO sponsored militia to do whatever they want from their leader Ms. Liberty. Coupled with the fact that they seem to make up their own rules of jurisdiction ie; invading other countries namely the Rogue Isles and not to mention why is a NATO sponsored militia operating on US soil?

That is alot of power for one person regardless if they are a "hero", where is the government oversight or a congressional committee that oversees operational status? Or even NATO oversight although once again I question the validity of them operating on any sovereign soil.

 

Now let's get into their tactics of murder, deception and "wetwork" operations. According to the "Flamethrower " units, "harkening back to the days of flaming arrows are Longbow's flamethrowers. They typically try not to use these when the press is around—burning enemies alive plays poorly on the evening news for a "heroic" organization."

So by there very definition they kill people, I guess there's no rules of engagement for these murderers of "righteous fervor".

 

Deception yeah, we all know about Ace McKnight and his double dealing. Finally, Agent Crimson a "wetwork specialist " bent on murder and mayhem from a questionable organization, more like illegal that conducts military and terrorist acts on foreign soil and US soil.

 

I seriously question why these "heroes " and their murderous minions are given such free reign to conduct whatever illicit and illegal operations they have going on. Alot of questions with no answers.

 

Any info or lore is appreciated. 

 

 

 

 

Source material 

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Longbow

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Freedom_Corps

[El D]

I think the only real answer is 'Because.' As much as I love the relatively 'real world' approach City of Heroes has to worldbuilding, contacts, and lore, ultimately the logistics and ramifications only apply when the writer wants to use them to influence the plot. Longbow has Flamethrowers and superpowered Wardens and infiltrates the Rogue Isles for the same reason that the Paragon Police Department has a division of Iron Man suits, a division of officers fused with alien lifeforms, and a division of literal thought-police. Because comic books. The only major difference is when it comes to implications; the PPD is explicitly handwaved as having 'big ethics departments to deal with psychic cops and extensive training programs for the Shell/Kheldian divisions' whereas Longbow is just... Geneva Convention-breaking murder-death-kill.

 

Don't get me wrong, it works as a set-up for 'international military organization with questionable tactics' but it just aways struck me as odd because despite doing the same thing gameplaywise that the player characters are celebrated for, Longbow constantly got vilified for it.

 

Mechanically, a Fire Blaster tossing a fireball into a mob of enemies isn't any different from a Longbow Flamethrower using... flamethrower. Fire damage is applied, mob falls over, game goes on. It's only when the descriptions come in that distinctions get made (which, to be fair, is the only place where the difference could be made). Game says the Player Hero just arrests the mobs, while the NPC Longbow guy horribly maims and kills despite both of them having taken - as far as mechanics go - basically the exact same action. That juxtaposition always seemed weird.

 

Also, on the topic of descriptions, I'm pretty sure most of the Longbow blurbs were written with the advent of City of Villains, when they started showing up as direct antagonists. So, some of them were probably pointedly done to be provocative. There's just a big sense of 'These so-called 'heroes' are actually all jerks! Don't feel bad for hurting them!' when it comes to the writing for Longbow, which while fitting for Redside, seems disingenuous given their overall situation and how the rest of the setting operates. I mean, if I were a soldier in a goofy candy-cane outfit and had to defend people from supervillains, I'd rather have a flamethrower instead of a pistol or just my fists - that might make the huge Super Strength Brute think twice about folding me into a pretzel, instead of just doing it.

Edited May 19, 2022 by El D

[The_Warpact]

21 minutes ago, El D said:

 

 

Mechanically, a Fire Blaster tossing a fireball into a mob of enemies isn't any different from a Longbow Flamethrower using... flamethrower. Fire damage is applied, mob falls over, game goes on. It's only when the descriptions come in that distinctions get made (which, to be fair, is the only place where the difference could be made). Game says the Player Hero just arrests the mobs, while the NPC Longbow guy horribly maims and kills despite both of them having taken - as far as mechanics go - basically the exact same action. That juxtaposition always seemed weird.

 

I did a thread awhile back talking about this. That there is no way every person, cop, criminal, etc had access to the last second life saving hospital porter that's used by more famous heroes and villains. 

People regardless of who they are die and its alot of them. I know when I do a bank mish I'm targeting every civilian and dropping aoe hell down on them. 

People can explain it away that they "arrest" people depending on their lil world but, really you just blowtorched that Skull.

 

I like to put the realistic approach on the HC, it makes me really think how the world operates instead of just accepting it.

 

Longbow are still terrorists. 😉

[cranebump]

What Longbow believes it is is probably more important than what they're, by definition, supposed to be. They're cops. They're a force for order. They're the Thin Blue Line.

 

Or, they probably see themselves that way. You'd almost have to say that to yourself to stay in the organization (other than building your resume/priming yourself for a mercenary career, or career as a Superhero/Villain).

Edited May 19, 2022 by cranebump

[Snarky]

Longbow is secretly a cult.  Not even most Longbow know this.   The thing was set up to support Kheldian world domination.   While Khelds pretend to be heroes they are in fact the vanguard of a Cthulu invasion of our dimension

 

Kill all Longbow.  Save the world

[El D]

1 hour ago, The_Warpact said:

I did a thread awhile back talking about this. That there is no way every person, cop, criminal, etc had access to the last second life saving hospital porter that's used by more famous heroes and villains. 

People regardless of who they are die and its alot of them. I know when I do a bank mish I'm targeting every civilian and dropping aoe hell down on them. 

People can explain it away that they "arrest" people depending on their lil world but, really you just blowtorched that Skull.

 

I like to put the realistic approach on the HC, it makes me really think how the world operates instead of just accepting it.

 

Longbow are still terrorists. 😉

 

'Enemy mobs having or not having meidporters' actually being an issue really depends on which side of the game folks are playing on.

 

If the character is aligned as a Hero, it doesn't apply; the game's ruling is that Heroes are not killing anyone in the first place, and the mobs are always arrested/incapacitated unless the story states otherwise. The descriptions have always been 'the hero has defeated X' and then discussed about how 'X was captured/imprisoned' after the fact unless the plot specifies something else happens to them. You're correct that most enemy mobs don't have mediporters, but when the game's innate ruling is that Heroes aren't murdering them in the first place, that doesn't matter. In those contexts, the explanations aren't a justification to avoid killing - the game's blanket rule of 'Heroes Don't Kill' already does that - but a narrative set up for future arcs. 'Hero arrested X when they were level Y, then when the hero got to level Z, they meet/fight X again.' Because comic books.

 

Now for Vigilante content or Redside stuff? Totally murdering people. The game makes that abundantly and explicitly clear multiple times over. The only time mobs survive is through mediporters (or whatever weird lore equivalent their enemy group has) and even then, it's only the signature heroes/villains and plot important folks, like you said. Some Family boss in a newspaper mission? Totally merc'd. One of the Arachnos patrons? Beaten up, but not dead.

 

Well, aside from Ghost Widow, but she was like that when we got here. <.<

[Cancrusher]

City of heroes is like in the old G.I. JOE cartoons from the 80's.  Everybody is using guns and bombs and flamethrowers and so on, but you just get blown into the air and knocked out when you hit the ground.  There's a few story arcs where villains make the heroes take a dirt nap (Darrin Wade/Statesman, etc.) but, other than that, it's cartoon/golden and silver age cartoon violence.

[Mezmera]

Why beat around the bush?  We all know the conclusion you're piecing together for us.  The so called "Villains" in this simulation are the true heroes and the "Heroes" just have well funded prop....er... press.

[PeregrineFalcon]

4 hours ago, The_Warpact said:

I seriously question why these "heroes " and their murderous minions are given such free reign to conduct whatever illicit and illegal operations they have going on. Alot of questions with no answers.

I remember having discussions on the live servers, several times, about Longbow. And I love these kind of hypothetical discussions. They highlight the difference between the childlike (i.e. comic book genre) point of view and a more nuanced and adult point of view.

 

Children yell " But they're the good guys!", as if that just magically makes everything ok. Adults are the ones who ask "Isn't using flamethrowers on civilians a violation of the Hague Accords?"

 

Children say it's ok that Longbow's in Mercy because "they trying to help!" Adults ask themselves if we really want to allow corporations to use private troops to invade sovereign nations.

 

Children think that cops are heroes. Adults wonder why there are so many videos online of cops shooting unarmed people, who have their hands in the air and are trying to surrender, and wonder if hero is really the correct word to describe PPD officers.

 

Children can't foresee the consequences of their actions. They allow psychics to enter the police force and then complain when DHS officers come knocking on their doors to ask them about some questionable tweets.

 

Like I said, I love these hypothetical discussions.

 

 

40 minutes ago, Snarky said:

Longbow is secretly a cult.  Not even most Longbow know this.

You know, I don't usually agree with Snarky, but when I do it's because he's right.

 

For too long we've allowed Longbow to run rampant in the streets of our cities with their flamethrowers and no oversight. They've burned down buildings, caused billions in property damage, killed innocent citizens, and shut down all dissent. They claimed that their masks would keep us safe while condemning the protests against them as "super spreader events."

 

Definitely a cult.

[The_Warpact]

45 minutes ago, Mezmera said:

Why beat around the bush?  We all know the conclusion you're piecing together for us.  The so called "Villains" in this simulation are the true heroes and the "Heroes" just have well funded prop....er... press.

Actually they are all "bad guys", we definitely know Arachnos, Council, CoT, etc are. I just want everyone to realize that so is Longbow and others of their kind.

13 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

I remember having discussions on the live servers, several times, about Longbow. And I love these kind of hypothetical discussions. They highlight the difference between the childlike (i.e. comic book genre) point of view and a more nuanced and adult point of view.

 

Children yell " But they're the good guys!", as if that just magically makes everything ok. Adults are the ones who ask "Isn't using flamethrowers on civilians a violation of the Hague Accords?"

 

Children say it's ok that Longbow's in Mercy because "they trying to help!" Adults ask themselves if we really want to allow corporations to use private troops to invade sovereign nations.

 

Children think that cops are heroes. Adults wonder why there are so many videos online of cops shooting unarmed people, who have their hands in the air and are trying to surrender, and wonder if hero is really the correct word to describe PPD officers.

 

Children can't foresee the consequences of their actions. They allow psychics to enter the police force and then complain when DHS officers come knocking on their doors to ask them about some questionable tweets.

 

Like I said, I love these hypothetical discussions.

 

 

You know, I don't usually agree with Snarky, but when I do it's because he's right.

 

For too long we've allowed Longbow to run rampant in the streets of our cities with their flamethrowers and no oversight. They've burned down buildings, caused billions in property damage, killed innocent citizens, and shut down all dissent. They claimed that their masks would keep us safe while condemning the protests against them as "super spreader events."

 

Definitely a cult.

Are you my brother?

 

1 hour ago, El D said:

 

'Enemy mobs having or not having meidporters' actually being an issue really depends on which side of the game folks are playing on.

 

If the character is aligned as a Hero, it doesn't apply; the game's ruling is that Heroes are not killing anyone in the first place, and the mobs are always arrested/incapacitated unless the story states otherwise. The descriptions have always been 'the hero has defeated X' and then discussed about how 'X was captured/imprisoned' after the fact unless the plot specifies something else happens to them. You're correct that most enemy mobs don't have mediporters, but when the game's innate ruling is that Heroes aren't murdering them in the first place, that doesn't matter. In those contexts, the explanations aren't a justification to avoid killing - the game's blanket rule of 'Heroes Don't Kill' already does that - but a narrative set up for future arcs. 'Hero arrested X when they were level Y, then when the hero got to level Z, they meet/fight X again.' Because comic books.

 

Now for Vigilante content or Redside stuff? Totally murdering people. The game makes that abundantly and explicitly clear multiple times over. The only time mobs survive is through mediporters (or whatever weird lore equivalent their enemy group has) and even then, it's only the signature heroes/villains and plot important folks, like you said. Some Family boss in a newspaper mission? Totally merc'd. One of the Arachnos patrons? Beaten up, but not dead.

 

Well, aside from Ghost Widow, but she was like that when we got here. <.<

I think someone once said to me its the NPCs that are killing each other, we are just sending them to the hospital. 

[Mezmera]

2 hours ago, The_Warpact said:

Actually they are all "bad guys", we definitely know Arachnos, Council, CoT, etc are. I just want everyone to realize that so is Longbow and others of their kind.

 

Fair enough.  Although I believe the Banished Pantheon do get a bad rap, all they want is their Necronomicon back...

[Aracknight]

I never see them at MSRs so I assumed they were funded by doorsitting AE farms.

[El D]

1 hour ago, The_Warpact said:

I think someone once said to me its the NPCs that are killing each other, we are just sending them to the hospital. 

 

Entirely possible, when the game says that is what's taking place. As an example, it's certainly true in the Penelope Yin Task Force. The Freakshow mobs state they're there to kill PPD officers in the first mission, then in the end they get arrested/incapacitated along with Clamor. In CoH, the narrative is the arbiter of reality - what the game says happens is what happens.

 

Back on Longbow, to run with an example given - in the real world, they'd absolutely face consequences for invading a sovereign nation, yes. However, in the real world there are no sovereign nations run by superhuman spider-dictators who run psychic eugenics programs, possess time travel portals, and regularly got into fistfights with an expy of Superman. Plucking them entirely out of their fictional context, when said context is the baseline for the actions they take in the first place, to apply real world consequences doesn't really leave a lot of room for a hypothetical discussion. They do all these 'would be horrific in the real world' things in the first place because comic books. If you remove 'because comic books' then of course they're all terrible people. Just about every entity in CoH aside from the civilians would be. <.<

 

... Actually, the civilians too. Some of them can really pushy/judgmental. Now, talking about Longbow's leadership structure and the decisions Longbow has made at the behest of Ms. Liberty?... Oof. As far as that part goes, they absolutely deserve some lambasting. xD At minimum for the Red Widow arc alone.

[Techwright]

8 hours ago, The_Warpact said:

 I question the validity of them operating on any sovereign soil.

Before I would get into the rest of your diatribe, let me pause at this line and ask a question that's been bugging me long before you ever posted this.

 

What's "sovereign" about the Rogue Islands?  No, seriously.  Oh, sure, you said "any" but lets be real: it's the game, it's the Rogue Islands.  There's multiple parties on the islands.  Sure, Arachnos is the dominating force, but are they recognized by the UN or whatever other cooperative body exists in the Prime Earth, and do they have a representative sitting there? 

Perhaps they are and I've missed the dialog.  I freely admit that as a possibility, so I'm asking.

 

[The_Warpact]

8 minutes ago, Techwright said:

Before I would get into the rest of your diatribe, let me pause at this line and ask a question that's been bugging me long before you ever posted this.

 

What's "sovereign" about the Rogue Islands?  No, seriously.  Oh, sure, you said "any" but lets be real: it's the game, it's the Rogue Islands.  There's multiple parties on the islands.  Sure, Arachnos is the dominating force, but are they recognized by the UN or whatever other cooperative body exists in the Prime Earth, and do they have a representative sitting there? 

Perhaps they are and I've missed the dialog.  I freely admit that as a possibility, so I'm asking.

 

I pose a question right back you, how many countries exist in our world that aren't recognized by the UN. You'll be surprised by the amount.

[merrypessimist]

22 hours ago, Techwright said:

Before I would get into the rest of your diatribe, let me pause at this line and ask a question that's been bugging me long before you ever posted this.

 

What's "sovereign" about the Rogue Islands?  No, seriously.  Oh, sure, you said "any" but lets be real: it's the game, it's the Rogue Islands.  There's multiple parties on the islands.  Sure, Arachnos is the dominating force, but are they recognized by the UN or whatever other cooperative body exists in the Prime Earth, and do they have a representative sitting there? 

Perhaps they are and I've missed the dialog.  I freely admit that as a possibility, so I'm asking.

 

 

They are, actually.  The media materials for the Rogue Isles back when CoV launched said that the Rogue Isles are a UN protectorate.  That doesn't make them a voting country, but it does mean that UN troops have a presence, either de facto with boots on the ground, or de jure, with legal rulings declaring it so.  They purportedly set them up where there's a significant risk of war without "the international community" sticking its nose in the middle.  Right now according to wikipedia the UN controls either physically or legally, three of them.  As an illustration of where they do that, the three are Cyprus, the Golan Heights, and Kosovo.

[Sakura Tenshi]

The real reason longbow exists is because the live devs didn’t want to make Wyvern and Legacy Chain go up to 50 much less figure heroic enemy groups to rep the other three origins (could have been a good chance to have Crey be a heroic force in the Rogue Isle where they use advanced science to help people there) and so they just took Council, reskinned them in candy cane tights, and gave them reskinned tsoo for bosses.

[hieronymusboss]

On 5/19/2022 at 12:51 PM, PeregrineFalcon said:

I remember having discussions on the live servers, several times, about Longbow. And I love these kind of hypothetical discussions. They highlight the difference between the childlike (i.e. comic book genre) point of view and a more nuanced and adult point of view.

 

Children yell " But they're the good guys!", as if that just magically makes everything ok. Adults are the ones who ask "Isn't using flamethrowers on civilians a violation of the Hague Accords?"

 

Children say it's ok that Longbow's in Mercy because "they trying to help!" Adults ask themselves if we really want to allow corporations to use private troops to invade sovereign nations.

 

Children think that cops are heroes. Adults wonder why there are so many videos online of cops shooting unarmed people, who have their hands in the air and are trying to surrender, and wonder if hero is really the correct word to describe PPD officers.

 

Children can't foresee the consequences of their actions. They allow psychics to enter the police force and then complain when DHS officers come knocking on their doors to ask them about some questionable tweets.

 

Like I said, I love these hypothetical discussions.

 

 

You know, I don't usually agree with Snarky, but when I do it's because he's right.

 

For too long we've allowed Longbow to run rampant in the streets of our cities with their flamethrowers and no oversight. They've burned down buildings, caused billions in property damage, killed innocent citizens, and shut down all dissent. They claimed that their masks would keep us safe while condemning the protests against them as "super spreader events."

 

Definitely a cult.

Oh aren't you a sweetheart. Calling your opposition children in a screed to secure your position without an argument, playing to emotions more than the facts.

Not saying you don't have a point. There is much to discuss regarding the nitty-gritty of Freedom Corps, Longbow and the PPD. But this seems more like you're fellating your own sense of righteousness and trying to foment division against a perceived enemy, rather than seeking any kind of real discussion. That's worse than being childish, if you ask me.

There's a lot of SMUG going on in this thread and it's disappointing, even if it's to be expected these days. Enjoy your guys' circle jerk I suppose.

[UltraAlt]

On 5/19/2022 at 1:11 PM, Cancrusher said:

City of heroes is like in the old G.I. JOE cartoons from the 80's.  Everybody is using guns and bombs and flamethrowers and so on, but you just get blown into the air and knocked out when you hit the ground. 

 

I remember an episode where a Cobra submarine gets blown out of the water and the Cobra agents jump out wearing parachutes!

 

On 5/19/2022 at 1:17 PM, Mezmera said:

Why beat around the bush?  We all know the conclusion you're piecing together for us.  The so called "Villains" in this simulation are the true heroes and the "Heroes"

 

They are constantly doing with repeated threads because they don't have enough villains to team with on the "red" side.

And if that is insulting to someone, then the OP should be considered insulting for posting what they posted to start this thread.

 

 

 

 

[The_Warpact]

7 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

 

They are constantly doing with repeated threads because they don't have enough villains to team with on the "red" side.

And if that is insulting to someone, then the OP should be considered insulting for posting what they posted to start this thread.

 

 

 

 

You're always a ball of laughs chuckles. I only post just for your responses,  since you have this mental issue with red side.

Like a patient fisherman I bait the hook and wait, boy, and I caught a whopper.

 

My threads are tongue in cheek I find amusement in peoples responses, most usually play along or try to rationalize it.

But, then there are those that find fault in it, truly a trophy to mount on my wall.

 

Thanks UA you never disappoint.

[ChaoticSalad]

 “An unavoidable war is called justice. When brutality is the only option left it is holy.”

- Niccolo` Machiavelli

 

Longbow follows the mindset of 'The Prince'. Do with that as you will.