LFG is not for conversations

[Oklahoman]

On 8/13/2022 at 12:46 PM, Techwright said:

So true.  It's why I've proposed in time past that upon login, we be given a recap of LFG from the previous minute or two, just so we can see if a recruiting request we could fill is going on. 

 

I've suggested this before, too. We discussed there making this a slider setting so you could define if you want the last 0-30 minutes, or whatever.

 

Also, as a general rule of thumb, I tell people on Excelsior that after you logon if you will monitor LFG for just 2 minutes, you will be pretty much up to date on what is recruiting right now. 

[Oklahoman]

On 8/13/2022 at 9:21 PM, Vexxillion said:

There's nothing wrong with asking for help in General chat. Those two channels overlap naturally. I don't think this is a good example.

 

I think most of us understand that anything is OK in the general chat - generally what makes it undesirable for many to follow, actually. Asking for help in general may get you what you want, but it's certainly not the optimal place for that. Same with trying to form teams out of general. I think we would be helpful to a player asking for help in general to suggest they may want to try the help channel, as well.

[UltraAlt]

On 8/13/2022 at 10:01 PM, Mopery said:

I wonder, should we tell people posting for teams in anything other than LFG that they're in the wrong channel and need to take the conversation to LFG?

 

When I see someone repeatedly posting in /help looking for a team or trying to get more to join their team, I do direct them to the /LFG channel.

[Mr. Apocalypse]

3 hours ago, Krimson said:

So at this particular moment General Chat has been taken over by Panda related chat for at least two hours. Regular chat has migrated to LFG, but no one minds because LFG is just multiple iterations of the same request over and over. 

It has been Complete Pandamonium in the Excelsior General Chat. It is a Pandamic, and there does not seem to be a cure.

[Neiska]

*GASP* BROTHERS! SISTERS! HEAR MY CALL!

 

SOME ROGUE HAS MISUSED THE CHANNEL! TO ARMS! TO ARMS! TO WAR! GOD WILLS IT! SOMEONE PLAY SOME SABATON! PLAY THE DRUMS OF WAR! WE WILL POST ON THE FORUMS! WE WILL POST IN THE DISCORD! WE WILL FURTHER POST IN THE CHANNEL! FOLLOW ME BATTLE BROTHERS! ONCE MORE INTO DARKNESS!

 

Man, who knew that LFG was such super serious biz?

 

Some people need to just get a grip. Its a dang video game, not a private international space station channel. If someone in a channel bothers you that much use the tools already provided. Like the ignore button.

 

Guys really are making a mountain out of a molehill here. Moreover I genuinely wonder what you expect to be done about it? 3 day ban hammers for misusing a channel? How do you think that will go over with this being a free game, hosted by a handful of dedicated volunteers, vs thousands of us? And it only takes one or two players goofing off to cause such a ruckus?

 

*/popcorn*

Edited August 18, 2022 by Neiska

[Oklahoman]

22 hours ago, Neiska said:

Moreover I genuinely wonder what you expect to be done about it?

 

For players to kindly ask people to move conversations from LFG to either help or General, as appropriate. I thought we covered that somewhere already in this thread. It works.

[Neiska]

1 hour ago, Oklahoman said:

For players to kindly ask people to move conversations from LFG to either help or General, as appropriate. I thought we covered that somewhere already in this thread. It works.

 

Sure, and I got no issue with that. But the how/way some "ask" is worse than people conversating in the lfg channel in the first place. I have seen some rather aggressive "requests" that I will not repeat here. "How" you communicate is just as important as the "what" you communicate. But someone going "ZOMG STOP TALKING IN LFG" or worse makes me eyeroll more than 2 people chatting about something in the channel.

[Ukase]

On 6/3/2022 at 9:44 AM, Oklahoman said:

There, I said it. Let the hate flow.

 

Look, I've played on other servers and I know their LFG channels aren't nearly as busy as ours on Excelsior. Those servers can tolerate that extremely witty reply you absolutely have to make in response to someone else's typo in an LFG post. In fact, it likely will be welcomed as the first time two messages were posted back-to-back to LFG in, what, days?

 

On Excelsior, though, we have numerous posts to LFG per minute, pretty much around the clock as far as I can tell. We are fortunate to have a lot of people trying to form groups. Maybe you don't realize how frustrating it is, then, when a conversation breaks out in LFG and our ad scrolls off the screen immediately.

 

No, I don't "own" any aspect of this game. But asking you to move a conversation to GENERAL or HELP is not some great offense worthy of a nasty /tell.

 

Anyway, that's the burr in my saddle this morning. How are you?

Okay, so you got your rant in. No hate from me. 

But - this is a community. There's a number of us that find the General chat a little ...well, unsavory, for various reasons. If someone cares to know, I can get into the specifics of why I don't use it in a DM. The community wants to crack a joke because someone typing isn't typing very well, so what? It hurts nothing. In fact, I welcome some of those stupid jokes. It's not like you weren't going to put out your recruiting message in another 10-20 seconds anyway, so what's the harm? You're using a macro, so it's not like you have to do anything other than mash a macro button. (or find it in your pop-menu) 

Now I can understand the frustration when someone else replies to the bad jokester, and then someone else chimes in. If it's not funny, well, I can overlook it. It's not like they go on and on. Generally someone gets on their high horse and tells them to put a sock in it. Usually most will stop chatting at that point, unless it's suggested in an aggressive manner, some folks will rebel and tell them to kick rocks. Business as usual. 

I think it's a good problem to have. It shows life. I'd be more concerned if we didn't have that kind of problem from time to time. 

 

[Ukase]

On 6/3/2022 at 2:04 PM, TygerDarkstorm said:

Ah yes, because gods forbid ya use the general chat channel for handling, you know, general chat type conversations. We have all these different channels for different reasons. Having regular conversations in LFG, Help, etc. is considered bad form, even on Everlasting, as it clogs up those channels for what their intended use is.

I don't disagree with you, but general chat is clearly misnamed, and should be called "Adults only" chat. Some of the discussions that I used to see in there were gross. 
I've been in the military. There was a time when profanity was just another adjective used to get your point across. But, those days are over. I have a vocabulary large enough to come up with alternative words to "pig-fucker" and the like. I have a profanity filter on. Yet, I see some of these idiots in general either deliberately or ignorantly misspell these words, and they get by my filter. And they're not angry at anyone. They're just conversing. And sometimes, (at least during the Trump/Clinton race) some of them got political. And I would have loved to have expressed my opinions clearly and specifically, but our community doesn't give a crap, and folks that disagree tend to have thin skin and take things personally, when it's just the specific cases I might take issue with. (Example: Should we (or not) do such and such)

So, I avoid General chat. Even if I didn't, toggling from one chat to the next is annoying, and I will not do it. I will not be told what to do by any other player, either. I am an adult. I will do my best to behave that way. But respect doesn't just flow to you freely. I will stop using the "wrong" channel for banal commentary - but only if reminded respectfully. If you TELL me to, I will get right back in your face, figuratively. That's just my way. I will not be pushed around by anyone. If anything I say is that bad, just report me without a word. The GMs will do what they deem appropriate. And I'm sure that I will stop myself before anyone has to stop me - unless you're being extremely belligerent to me or someone else.  Even then I'm sure I'd take that to tells, rather than bring it to a public channel. 

For the purpose of trying to keep the peace, I will try to avoid the really stupid comments. But if I think they're brief and funny, I'm going to share. 

 

 

[Oklahoman]

On 7/30/2022 at 3:20 AM, GM Flints said:

In the future if someone's going on like that, please send in a petition so the GMs can respond and make known that level of .. that.. Is not appropriate for any channel. 

 

15 hours ago, Ukase said:

I don't disagree with you, but general chat is clearly misnamed, and should be called "Adults only" chat.

 

No, it shouldn't be renamed. It should be used appropriately and reported as mentioned above. I don't think the community should tolerate that, and it sounds like the GMs don't want us to, either.

 

16 hours ago, Ukase said:

It's not like you weren't going to put out your recruiting message in another 10-20 seconds anyway, so what's the harm? You're using a macro, so it's not like you have to do anything other than mash a macro button. (or find it in your pop-menu) 

 

All of that is true except the timing - I post to LFG every other minute, so my postings are almost always 60-120 seconds apart (or more), a practice I'd personally love to see more use. I won't claim to be 100% perfect on that, but that is what I shoot for and I rarely have a team or league not fill.

 

16 hours ago, Ukase said:

It's not like they go on and on. Generally someone gets on their high horse and tells them to put a sock in it. Usually most will stop chatting at that point, unless it's suggested in an aggressive manner, some folks will rebel and tell them to kick rocks. Business as usual. 

 

Which is exactly the point I have been trying to make. As a community, we need to speak up when this happens so that they do, in fact, put a sock in it. Be polite, but do say something. As you say, a stray comment or 2 is one thing, a conversation is another. However, the stray comment can lead to a conversation.

 

Here's another example from the other day:

Spoiler

2022-08-20 18:05:30    [Looking For Group] GetWaterSported Aimz: <color #010101>LF someone to love me
2022-08-20 18:05:57    [Looking For Group] Cable Panda: <color #000000>Gigolo Panda was just online earlier...
2022-08-20 18:06:00    [Looking For Group] Cable Panda: <color #000000>you missed him
2022-08-20 18:06:01    [Looking For Group] Zap Radiance: <color #010101>Lowbie LF AE farm
2022-08-20 18:06:09    [Looking For Group] Triflux: <color #010101>sitter LF AE Farm please
2022-08-20 18:06:23    [Looking For Group] GetWaterSported Aimz: <color #010101>is he rich?
2022-08-20 18:06:24    [Looking For Group] LitBug: <color #010101>Hitter LF Farm
2022-08-20 18:06:33    [Looking For Group] Triflux: <color #010101>level 7 sitter LF AE Farm please
2022-08-20 18:06:41    [Looking For Group] Cable Panda: <color #000000>he's only after the rich...
...
2022-08-20 18:11:27    [Looking For Group] Mr Tankerbell: <color #fdfdfd><bgcolor #410159>LVL 50 inc tank bored & looking for a good time
2022-08-20 18:11:54    [Looking For Group] Dr Helgeist: DFB Team full now, thanks
2022-08-20 18:11:55    [Looking For Group] Fleet Feet: <color #010101>LF farm please
2022-08-20 18:12:05    [Looking For Group] Pride Phire: <color #1c0826><bgcolor #ff4aff>call Jenny
2022-08-20 18:12:29    [Looking For Group] Mr Tankerbell: <color #fdfdfd><bgcolor #410159>I dont have her number
2022-08-20 18:12:41    [Looking For Group] Void6703: <color #010101>8675309
2022-08-20 18:12:50    [Looking For Group] AutumnQueen: <color #010101>8675309
2022-08-20 18:12:51    [Looking For Group] MOONST0NE: 8675309
2022-08-20 18:12:53    [Looking For Group] Bloum: <color #010101><bgcolor #0164ff>yup ...
2022-08-20 18:12:54    [Looking For Group] GetWaterSported Aimz: <color #010101>anyone have the number to my future Bf?
2022-08-20 18:13:00    [Looking For Group] Hatshepsut Eternal: You can get it from a wal
2022-08-20 18:13:01    [Looking For Group] Mr Tankerbell: <color #fdfdfd><bgcolor #410159>ROFLMAO JENNY GETS AROUND I SEE
2022-08-20 18:13:07    [Looking For Group] Crimson Citizen: Security Level 34&nbsp;Tanker looking for team.
2022-08-20 18:13:09    [Looking For Group] Fleet Feet: <color #010101>No. It's 86753 ohhhh 9
2022-08-20 18:13:09    [Looking For Group] Sky Tiger: <color #010101>call it
2022-08-20 18:13:24    [Looking For Group] Void6703: <color #010101>For a good time.
2022-08-20 18:13:32    [Looking For Group] AutumnQueen: <color #010101>jenny is jessie's girl, and stacy's mom
2022-08-20 18:13:37    [Looking For Group] Ryu Clan: <color #010101>Call
2022-08-20 18:13:40    [Looking For Group] Smasher Panda: <color #000000>...
2022-08-20 18:13:42    [Looking For Group] Oklahoman: <color #010101>LFG is not for conversations. Please move that to General.
2022-08-20 18:13:44    [Looking For Group] Smasher Panda: <color #000000>there are underage pandas in here...
2022-08-20 18:13:51    [Looking For Group] Bloum: <color #010101><bgcolor #0164ff>but not Run Around Sue
2022-08-20 18:13:57    [Looking For Group] Crimson Citizen: <color #ff8987><bgcolor #010101>well, Scotty doesn't know.
2022-08-20 18:14:10    [Looking For Group] Oklahoman: Marauder is getting too big for his LAMBDA-sized britches. Bring yer 50 or better to Ouroboros and we'll take that jackwagon down a notch. (LAM LOOTER and SYNCHRONIZED badge run)
2022-08-20 18:14:23    [Looking For Group] GetWaterSported Aimz: <color #010101>why are you such a hater?

 

Notice that the first batch dies out quickly on its own without anyone needing to say anything to them. But, almost as if not getting called out gave permission for conversations to happen in LFG, 5 minutes later it starts up again. I call it out, and perhaps get some hate for it (hard to tell where that last comment was directed). There's a couple more queued up comments after I ask everyone to move it to General, but after that... nothing else for the rest of the evening that I saw.

 

Look, I get it. This is probably something that bugs me WAY more than anyone else. But just like we have designated forums for different topics, and will move things posted in an incorrect forum to a different one immediately rather than just see if it dies out on its own, I feel like we need to work together as a community to keep our chat channels mostly on topic. If the appropriate place for a general conversation is NOT general, we need to fix general.

Edited August 22, 2022 by Oklahoman

[Ukase]

1 hour ago, Oklahoman said:

Look, I get it. This is probably something that bugs me WAY more than anyone else. But just like we have designated forums for different topics, and will move things posted in an incorrect forum to a different one immediately rather than just see if it dies out on its own, I feel like we need to work together as a community to keep our chat channels mostly on topic. If the appropriate place for a general conversation is NOT general, we need to fix general.

Well, seeing your sample, that's actually the kind of drivel I used to see in General chat, which is why I left it. None of that is amusing to me, and I'm sorry I wasn't on to back you up in a fashion. 
Okie, you're a good sort, and you're the kind of chap that makes the game better, even if you do roleplay. Some folks like it, and that's perfectly okay with me; I just lack the imagination. (and the desire, if I'm being honest.) But, as I said, you're one of those folks that makes the game better, so I'll do what I can, when I'm on, and ask those fools to keep it to a minimum, for all the good that might do. 

[High_Beam]

I look to LFG of all places to be a business up front and in back chat, even if the TF/SF/iTrial's are a little chatty because they sometimes sell the product.  Not everyone knows what the WSTs so advertising the high number of Merits in the LFG call helps get joiners.

 

But yesterday and the day before it was freaking panda BS (AGAIN!) that slopped over from General (which has already been moved to its own separate tab because it wont stop) into LFG.  I will own up to shooting back in LFG at the attention starved panda clown shoes to STFU so I was contributing to the pollution.  Then got my calm back and ignored seven more players and moved on.  The problem is you cant ignore everyone and you shouldn't have to since the chat room is clearly Looking for Group, not Looking for Attention (aka General, and Help, and Broadcast and Local and I am sure if they could Hero Zone Events).

 

I am the first person to engage in silly chat but I do it in the appropriate venue.  And that is the key, appropriate to the community not to you or me.  LFG cannot be clearer in its purpose to the community.

[Blood Speaker]

OTOH, there's so many LFG requests on Excelsior at times that some people feel the need to repost their own every few seconds. Especially farm requests.

OTOH, there's so many LFG requests on Excelsior at times that some people feel the need to repost their own every few seconds. Especially farm requests.

OTOH, there's so many LFG requests on Excelsior at times that some people feel the need to repost their own every few seconds. Especially farm requests.

OTOH, there's so many LFG requests on Excelsior at times that some people feel the need to repost their own every few seconds. Especially farm requests.

OTOH, there's so many LFG requests on Excelsior at times that some people feel the need to repost their own every few seconds. Especially farm requests.

 

Can we get less of that, too?..

[Oklahoman]

11 hours ago, Blood Speaker said:

OTOH, there's so many LFG requests on Excelsior at times that some people feel the need to repost their own every few seconds. Especially farm requests.

 

In my experience, there's no reason to post to LFG more than once a minute, with the exception of a final "Full, thanks!" message. Perhaps you would fill your team or league a little faster with multiple requests to LFG, but that's not been my experience or my observation, and I suspect even if it were true the difference would be negligible.

 

As for AE farm requests, I think it would be wonderful if someone started a channel for that and we normalized sending channel invites for that in an attempt to move that traffic off LFG. I am absolutely not against farming, but it seems like a big enough portion of our population is into farming that it might be more effective for it to have its own channel. I don't care to run or participate on that channel, so I won't be the one starting it.

[Oklahoman]

2 hours ago, Krimson said:

Now, how do you get Farmers to use said channel? That sure sounds like something that would get it's own tab before being quickly forgotten.

 

That's the rub. So long as posting to LFG is effective, that's going to be everyone's go-to. I'm just saying that IF someone set up such a channel and IF we promoted that to farmers, it could potentially be a lot more efficient for everyone. But we'd also have to be willing, as a community, to see someone post to LFG that they are looking for a farm and then send them an invite for the farm channel - politely - suggesting they may have more success there.

 

But, yeah, if people are having more success getting on farms by posting to LFG than to this theoretical farming channel, people will stop using the farming channel. We'd have to decide as a community that we want to encourage use of the farming channel.

 

Were I to use such a channel, I would probably have it on its own tab, as you suggest, and only look at it when I am looking to farm. Much like I have LFG on its own tab and only look at it when I am looking for something to join. But that's just me.

 

[Oklahoman]

I don't disagree with you @Krimson on almost all of that. Yes, LFG is a valid place to post that you are looking for a farm, or advertising a farm. And I have no problem with people farming if that's fun for them. I often say that we don't know for sure if this game will be here tomorrow - we're operating in the gray here. So, if farming is fun for you, go for it.

 

Are you saying that the people wanting to join a farm might use a farming channel, but the people leading a farm might not? I can't really speak to that. I have a couple farmers on other accounts that I rarely need to use, and I usually do not advertise or accept others into those farms. But, when I do, I prioritize people posting in broadcast/local over LFG because I know they are here and ready to go. Once I'm in the farm, if I have an opening and any inclination to try to fill it, I do look at LFG. Personally, if a farming channel existed then in those cases I would look to the farming channel second rather than LFG, then LFG as my third option. But everyone would do their own thing, of course.

 

1 hour ago, Krimson said:

But aside from thinking the channel wouldn't get use, my main opposition to this is because the real goal is to segregate farmers and sitters from the other players, which doesn't sit right with me.

 

I get that. A dedicated, hard coded (like general and help) farming channel has been proposed by others before and shot down, probably for much the same reason. What I'd love to see even more would be the ability to have some filters on our tabs, so you could set up an LFG tab but then -#BAF and -#DFB to exclude lines, and maybe +#farm or +#MAG to highlight lines. But I doubt anything like that will ever happen, plus someone will come along soon and tell us all why that's a bad idea, anyway.

[shatterpoint]

Since the dawn of the MMO the chat is and always shall be a quagmire. People will do what they want. You aren't really going to stop them.

 

Control.

You can only exercise control over yourself.

Don't like this/that/whatever then do something that is under YOUR control. Turn it off. Use /ignore. Chat tabs are editable.

 

For the most part, the more you wail into the void that you don't want someone to do said thing, they will absolutely DO said thing out of spite.

 

Controlling chat...interesting concept.

 

 

 

[Mopery]

19 hours ago, shatterpoint said:

Since the dawn of the MMO the chat is and always shall be a quagmire. People will do what they want. You aren't really going to stop them.

 

Control.

You can only exercise control over yourself.

Don't like this/that/whatever then do something that is under YOUR control. Turn it off. Use /ignore. Chat tabs are editable.

 

For the most part, the more you wail into the void that you don't want someone to do said thing, they will absolutely DO said thing out of spite.

 

Controlling chat...interesting concept.

 

 

 

Precisely.

It's a similar cause and effect like those Explicit Lyrics labels they started putting on albums in the 1980's.

Eventually every band wanted one, because it meant their album would instantly go Platinum...

[Blood Speaker]

I'm not so much looking for a separate Farm channel (the thought had already crossed my mind), as I am wondering if it's worth anyone's angst to try and enforce a bit of chat etiquette on LFG, or have a timer on it such that no one CAN post to it more often than once every 30 or 60 seconds, or some such. Farms aside, it's just as irritating and clutter-y, regardless of team type, for people to post:

 

LFM 2/8

LFM 3/8

LFM 4/8

LFM 5/8

LFM 6/8

LFM 7/8

Full, thx

 

...within the space of 3 minutes. It doesn't take much of that to push other messages off, at that rate, and THEN it becomes a "competition" to keep "your" message on the screen, against everyone else trying to do the same.

[Akalabeth]

I thought it was ironic there was a conversation in the Help channel yesterday with people talking about how they don't like general chat and reasons why they don't listen to it...

 

I've also seen this in LFG when people are told to take it to general...

Edited November 5, 2022 by Akalabeth

[Herotu]

I believe the young people would say, "Mo chat mo betta"

[Oklahoman]

13 hours ago, Herotu said:

I believe the young people would say, "Mo chat mo betta"

 

General Chat has its own channel, and if it needs to be cleaned up before someone is willing to wade into it, someone else needs to do that. Not my circus, not my monkeys.

 

Looking for Group is not for General Chat. Nor is it for Help. We can tolerate the occasional misstep here and there, but we all benefit when people use the correct channels, and use the channels correctly.

[Player2]

LFG to discuss the whys and why nots of having a discussion in the LFG channel... in the the LFG channel.

[UltraAlt]

[Rahabina]

On 10/17/2022 at 3:36 PM, Krimson said:

If we're going to go this route, then several channels might be better than one channel. That would make the issue of separating farmers and sitters from the general population less of an issue, because other groups would be included as well. I could certainly see an iTrial channel since those happen often enough. Maybe a Taskforce channel? If more than one was proposed, then having one for farming wouldn't be an issue. 

They do need a LFF looking for farm channel