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LFG is not for conversations


Oklahoman
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8 hours ago, GM Flints said:

In the future if someone's going on like that, please send in a petition so the GMs can respond and make known that level of .. that.. Is not appropriate for any channel. 

 

I appreciate your supportive response. However, I generally don't do this for a number of reasons. I won't go into those reasons here because they're not helpful to this discussion, but in general I have found that any petition like this relies heavily on which GM gets to respond. I appreciate all the work of our GMs and others supporting this community, and I'm appreciative every day I get to play this game.

 

Maybe another feature we need is a way for the community to "flag" a post so GMs can get alerted if someone is flagged, say, 10 times in a 10 minute span or something. Maybe some flea will come along and steal that idea, too. 🙂 

 

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  • 2 weeks later
On 7/30/2022 at 12:31 PM, Krimson said:

Depends on the time stamps. If I just log in on a fresh toon, and I see DFB - PST, I have no idea how many times they posted. But hey, this particular time is pretty convenient. 

So true.  It's why I've proposed in time past that upon login, we be given a recap of LFG from the previous minute or two, just so we can see if a recruiting request we could fill is going on. 

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I wonder, should we tell people posting for teams in anything other than LFG that they're in the wrong channel and need to take the conversation to LFG? What about if they're asking for help in General chat, should we admonish them and tell them to take it to Help, as that is the appropriate channel to get help?

 

The world itself is a chaotic place, insisting that it be orderly will only lead to disappointment.

Edited by Mopery
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"Sanity is a one-trick pony.

You only get one trick: Rational Thinking.

Ahh, but when you're good and crazy, the sky's the limit!"

-The Tick 

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11 hours ago, Vexxillion said:

There's nothing wrong with asking for help in General chat. Those two channels overlap naturally. I don't think this is a good example.

Look! Up in the sky! It's a bird! It's a plane!

No...

It's my point.

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"Sanity is a one-trick pony.

You only get one trick: Rational Thinking.

Ahh, but when you're good and crazy, the sky's the limit!"

-The Tick 

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On 8/13/2022 at 12:46 PM, Techwright said:

So true.  It's why I've proposed in time past that upon login, we be given a recap of LFG from the previous minute or two, just so we can see if a recruiting request we could fill is going on. 

 

I've suggested this before, too. We discussed there making this a slider setting so you could define if you want the last 0-30 minutes, or whatever.

 

Also, as a general rule of thumb, I tell people on Excelsior that after you logon if you will monitor LFG for just 2 minutes, you will be pretty much up to date on what is recruiting right now. 

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On 8/13/2022 at 9:21 PM, Vexxillion said:

There's nothing wrong with asking for help in General chat. Those two channels overlap naturally. I don't think this is a good example.

 

I think most of us understand that anything is OK in the general chat - generally what makes it undesirable for many to follow, actually. Asking for help in general may get you what you want, but it's certainly not the optimal place for that. Same with trying to form teams out of general. I think we would be helpful to a player asking for help in general to suggest they may want to try the help channel, as well.

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So at this particular moment General Chat has been taken over by Panda related chat for at least two hours. Regular chat has migrated to LFG, but no one minds because LFG is just multiple iterations of the same request over and over. 

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On 8/13/2022 at 10:01 PM, Mopery said:

I wonder, should we tell people posting for teams in anything other than LFG that they're in the wrong channel and need to take the conversation to LFG?

 

When I see someone repeatedly posting in /help looking for a team or trying to get more to join their team, I do direct them to the /LFG channel.

If someone posts a reply quoting me and I don't reply, they are most probably on ignore.

Some of them even know that I have them on ignore.

But that won't stop some of them from bullying and harassing people, because some of them love to do it.

It's who they are. There is a group of them that have banded together to do it. They think that it is acceptable.

Ignore is a tool to improve your gaming experience. Don't feel bad about using it.

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3 hours ago, Krimson said:

So at this particular moment General Chat has been taken over by Panda related chat for at least two hours. Regular chat has migrated to LFG, but no one minds because LFG is just multiple iterations of the same request over and over. 

It has been Complete Pandamonium in the Excelsior General Chat. It is a Pandamic, and there does not seem to be a cure.

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*GASP* BROTHERS! SISTERS! HEAR MY CALL!

 

SOME ROGUE HAS MISUSED THE CHANNEL! TO ARMS! TO ARMS! TO WAR! GOD WILLS IT! SOMEONE PLAY SOME SABATON! PLAY THE DRUMS OF WAR! WE WILL POST ON THE FORUMS! WE WILL POST IN THE DISCORD! WE WILL FURTHER POST IN THE CHANNEL! FOLLOW ME BATTLE BROTHERS! ONCE MORE INTO DARKNESS!

 

Man, who knew that LFG was such super serious biz?

 

Some people need to just get a grip. Its a dang video game, not a private international space station channel. If someone in a channel bothers you that much use the tools already provided. Like the ignore button.

 

Guys really are making a mountain out of a molehill here. Moreover I genuinely wonder what you expect to be done about it? 3 day ban hammers for misusing a channel? How do you think that will go over with this being a free game, hosted by a handful of dedicated volunteers, vs thousands of us? And it only takes one or two players goofing off to cause such a ruckus?

 

*/popcorn*

Edited by Neiska
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22 hours ago, Neiska said:

Moreover I genuinely wonder what you expect to be done about it?

 

For players to kindly ask people to move conversations from LFG to either help or General, as appropriate. I thought we covered that somewhere already in this thread. It works.

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1 hour ago, Oklahoman said:

For players to kindly ask people to move conversations from LFG to either help or General, as appropriate. I thought we covered that somewhere already in this thread. It works.

 

Sure, and I got no issue with that. But the how/way some "ask" is worse than people conversating in the lfg channel in the first place. I have seen some rather aggressive "requests" that I will not repeat here. "How" you communicate is just as important as the "what" you communicate. But someone going "ZOMG STOP TALKING IN LFG" or worse makes me eyeroll more than 2 people chatting about something in the channel.

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On 6/3/2022 at 9:44 AM, Oklahoman said:

There, I said it. Let the hate flow.

 

Look, I've played on other servers and I know their LFG channels aren't nearly as busy as ours on Excelsior. Those servers can tolerate that extremely witty reply you absolutely have to make in response to someone else's typo in an LFG post. In fact, it likely will be welcomed as the first time two messages were posted back-to-back to LFG in, what, days?

 

On Excelsior, though, we have numerous posts to LFG per minute, pretty much around the clock as far as I can tell. We are fortunate to have a lot of people trying to form groups. Maybe you don't realize how frustrating it is, then, when a conversation breaks out in LFG and our ad scrolls off the screen immediately.

 

No, I don't "own" any aspect of this game. But asking you to move a conversation to GENERAL or HELP is not some great offense worthy of a nasty /tell.

 

Anyway, that's the burr in my saddle this morning. How are you?

Okay, so you got your rant in. No hate from me. 

But - this is a community. There's a number of us that find the General chat a little ...well, unsavory, for various reasons. If someone cares to know, I can get into the specifics of why I don't use it in a DM. The community wants to crack a joke because someone typing isn't typing very well, so what? It hurts nothing. In fact, I welcome some of those stupid jokes. It's not like you weren't going to put out your recruiting message in another 10-20 seconds anyway, so what's the harm? You're using a macro, so it's not like you have to do anything other than mash a macro button. (or find it in your pop-menu) 

Now I can understand the frustration when someone else replies to the bad jokester, and then someone else chimes in. If it's not funny, well, I can overlook it. It's not like they go on and on. Generally someone gets on their high horse and tells them to put a sock in it. Usually most will stop chatting at that point, unless it's suggested in an aggressive manner, some folks will rebel and tell them to kick rocks. Business as usual. 

I think it's a good problem to have. It shows life. I'd be more concerned if we didn't have that kind of problem from time to time. 

 

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On 6/3/2022 at 2:04 PM, TygerDarkstorm said:

Ah yes, because gods forbid ya use the general chat channel for handling, you know, general chat type conversations. We have all these different channels for different reasons. Having regular conversations in LFG, Help, etc. is considered bad form, even on Everlasting, as it clogs up those channels for what their intended use is.

I don't disagree with you, but general chat is clearly misnamed, and should be called "Adults only" chat. Some of the discussions that I used to see in there were gross. 
I've been in the military. There was a time when profanity was just another adjective used to get your point across. But, those days are over. I have a vocabulary large enough to come up with alternative words to "pig-fucker" and the like. I have a profanity filter on. Yet, I see some of these idiots in general either deliberately or ignorantly misspell these words, and they get by my filter. And they're not angry at anyone. They're just conversing. And sometimes, (at least during the Trump/Clinton race) some of them got political. And I would have loved to have expressed my opinions clearly and specifically, but our community doesn't give a crap, and folks that disagree tend to have thin skin and take things personally, when it's just the specific cases I might take issue with. (Example: Should we (or not) do such and such)

So, I avoid General chat. Even if I didn't, toggling from one chat to the next is annoying, and I will not do it. I will not be told what to do by any other player, either. I am an adult. I will do my best to behave that way. But respect doesn't just flow to you freely. I will stop using the "wrong" channel for banal commentary - but only if reminded respectfully. If you TELL me to, I will get right back in your face, figuratively. That's just my way. I will not be pushed around by anyone. If anything I say is that bad, just report me without a word. The GMs will do what they deem appropriate. And I'm sure that I will stop myself before anyone has to stop me - unless you're being extremely belligerent to me or someone else.  Even then I'm sure I'd take that to tells, rather than bring it to a public channel. 

For the purpose of trying to keep the peace, I will try to avoid the really stupid comments. But if I think they're brief and funny, I'm going to share. 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
On 7/30/2022 at 3:20 AM, GM Flints said:

In the future if someone's going on like that, please send in a petition so the GMs can respond and make known that level of .. that.. Is not appropriate for any channel. 

 

15 hours ago, Ukase said:

I don't disagree with you, but general chat is clearly misnamed, and should be called "Adults only" chat.

 

No, it shouldn't be renamed. It should be used appropriately and reported as mentioned above. I don't think the community should tolerate that, and it sounds like the GMs don't want us to, either.

 

16 hours ago, Ukase said:

It's not like you weren't going to put out your recruiting message in another 10-20 seconds anyway, so what's the harm? You're using a macro, so it's not like you have to do anything other than mash a macro button. (or find it in your pop-menu) 

 

All of that is true except the timing - I post to LFG every other minute, so my postings are almost always 60-120 seconds apart (or more), a practice I'd personally love to see more use. I won't claim to be 100% perfect on that, but that is what I shoot for and I rarely have a team or league not fill.

 

16 hours ago, Ukase said:

It's not like they go on and on. Generally someone gets on their high horse and tells them to put a sock in it. Usually most will stop chatting at that point, unless it's suggested in an aggressive manner, some folks will rebel and tell them to kick rocks. Business as usual. 

 

Which is exactly the point I have been trying to make. As a community, we need to speak up when this happens so that they do, in fact, put a sock in it. Be polite, but do say something. As you say, a stray comment or 2 is one thing, a conversation is another. However, the stray comment can lead to a conversation.

 

Here's another example from the other day:

Spoiler

2022-08-20 18:05:30    [Looking For Group] GetWaterSported Aimz: <color #010101>LF someone to love me
2022-08-20 18:05:57    [Looking For Group] Cable Panda: <color #000000>Gigolo Panda was just online earlier...
2022-08-20 18:06:00    [Looking For Group] Cable Panda: <color #000000>you missed him
2022-08-20 18:06:01    [Looking For Group] Zap Radiance: <color #010101>Lowbie LF AE farm
2022-08-20 18:06:09    [Looking For Group] Triflux: <color #010101>sitter LF AE Farm please
2022-08-20 18:06:23    [Looking For Group] GetWaterSported Aimz: <color #010101>is he rich?
2022-08-20 18:06:24    [Looking For Group] LitBug: <color #010101>Hitter LF Farm
2022-08-20 18:06:33    [Looking For Group] Triflux: <color #010101>level 7 sitter LF AE Farm please
2022-08-20 18:06:41    [Looking For Group] Cable Panda: <color #000000>he's only after the rich...
...
2022-08-20 18:11:27    [Looking For Group] Mr Tankerbell: <color #fdfdfd><bgcolor #410159>LVL 50 inc tank bored & looking for a good time
2022-08-20 18:11:54    [Looking For Group] Dr Helgeist: DFB Team full now, thanks
2022-08-20 18:11:55    [Looking For Group] Fleet Feet: <color #010101>LF farm please
2022-08-20 18:12:05    [Looking For Group] Pride Phire: <color #1c0826><bgcolor #ff4aff>call Jenny
2022-08-20 18:12:29    [Looking For Group] Mr Tankerbell: <color #fdfdfd><bgcolor #410159>I dont have her number
2022-08-20 18:12:41    [Looking For Group] Void6703: <color #010101>8675309
2022-08-20 18:12:50    [Looking For Group] AutumnQueen: <color #010101>8675309
2022-08-20 18:12:51    [Looking For Group] MOONST0NE: 8675309
2022-08-20 18:12:53    [Looking For Group] Bloum: <color #010101><bgcolor #0164ff>yup ...
2022-08-20 18:12:54    [Looking For Group] GetWaterSported Aimz: <color #010101>anyone have the number to my future Bf?
2022-08-20 18:13:00    [Looking For Group] Hatshepsut Eternal: You can get it from a wal
2022-08-20 18:13:01    [Looking For Group] Mr Tankerbell: <color #fdfdfd><bgcolor #410159>ROFLMAO JENNY GETS AROUND I SEE
2022-08-20 18:13:07    [Looking For Group] Crimson Citizen: Security Level 34&nbsp;Tanker looking for team.
2022-08-20 18:13:09    [Looking For Group] Fleet Feet: <color #010101>No. It's 86753 ohhhh 9
2022-08-20 18:13:09    [Looking For Group] Sky Tiger: <color #010101>call it
2022-08-20 18:13:24    [Looking For Group] Void6703: <color #010101>For a good time.
2022-08-20 18:13:32    [Looking For Group] AutumnQueen: <color #010101>jenny is jessie's girl, and stacy's mom
2022-08-20 18:13:37    [Looking For Group] Ryu Clan: <color #010101>Call
2022-08-20 18:13:40    [Looking For Group] Smasher Panda: <color #000000>...
2022-08-20 18:13:42    [Looking For Group] Oklahoman: <color #010101>LFG is not for conversations. Please move that to General.
2022-08-20 18:13:44    [Looking For Group] Smasher Panda: <color #000000>there are underage pandas in here...
2022-08-20 18:13:51    [Looking For Group] Bloum: <color #010101><bgcolor #0164ff>but not Run Around Sue
2022-08-20 18:13:57    [Looking For Group] Crimson Citizen: <color #ff8987><bgcolor #010101>well, Scotty doesn't know.
2022-08-20 18:14:10    [Looking For Group] Oklahoman: Marauder is getting too big for his LAMBDA-sized britches. Bring yer 50 or better to Ouroboros and we'll take that jackwagon down a notch. (LAM LOOTER and SYNCHRONIZED badge run)
2022-08-20 18:14:23    [Looking For Group] GetWaterSported Aimz: <color #010101>why are you such a hater?

 

Notice that the first batch dies out quickly on its own without anyone needing to say anything to them. But, almost as if not getting called out gave permission for conversations to happen in LFG, 5 minutes later it starts up again. I call it out, and perhaps get some hate for it (hard to tell where that last comment was directed). There's a couple more queued up comments after I ask everyone to move it to General, but after that... nothing else for the rest of the evening that I saw.

 

Look, I get it. This is probably something that bugs me WAY more than anyone else. But just like we have designated forums for different topics, and will move things posted in an incorrect forum to a different one immediately rather than just see if it dies out on its own, I feel like we need to work together as a community to keep our chat channels mostly on topic. If the appropriate place for a general conversation is NOT general, we need to fix general.

Edited by Oklahoman
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1 hour ago, Oklahoman said:

Look, I get it. This is probably something that bugs me WAY more than anyone else. But just like we have designated forums for different topics, and will move things posted in an incorrect forum to a different one immediately rather than just see if it dies out on its own, I feel like we need to work together as a community to keep our chat channels mostly on topic. If the appropriate place for a general conversation is NOT general, we need to fix general.

Well, seeing your sample, that's actually the kind of drivel I used to see in General chat, which is why I left it. None of that is amusing to me, and I'm sorry I wasn't on to back you up in a fashion. 
Okie, you're a good sort, and you're the kind of chap that makes the game better, even if you do roleplay. Some folks like it, and that's perfectly okay with me; I just lack the imagination. (and the desire, if I'm being honest.) But, as I said, you're one of those folks that makes the game better, so I'll do what I can, when I'm on, and ask those fools to keep it to a minimum, for all the good that might do. 

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I look to LFG of all places to be a business up front and in back chat, even if the TF/SF/iTrial's are a little chatty because they sometimes sell the product.  Not everyone knows what the WSTs so advertising the high number of Merits in the LFG call helps get joiners.

 

But yesterday and the day before it was freaking panda BS (AGAIN!) that slopped over from General (which has already been moved to its own separate tab because it wont stop) into LFG.  I will own up to shooting back in LFG at the attention starved panda clown shoes to STFU so I was contributing to the pollution.  Then got my calm back and ignored seven more players and moved on.  The problem is you cant ignore everyone and you shouldn't have to since the chat room is clearly Looking for Group, not Looking for Attention (aka General, and Help, and Broadcast and Local and I am sure if they could Hero Zone Events).

 

I am the first person to engage in silly chat but I do it in the appropriate venue.  And that is the key, appropriate to the community not to you or me.  LFG cannot be clearer in its purpose to the community.

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Girls of Nukem High - Excelsior - Tempus Fabulous, Flattery, Jennifer Chilly, Betty Beatdown, Kitty Conflag

Babes of War - Excelsior - Di Di Guns, Krystala, Tideway, Runeslinger, Munitions Mistress, Operative Violet, Boom Boom Britta

 

Several alts and of course my original from live on Freedom, OG High Beam (someone else has her non OG name)

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I think that's why there was a suggestion a while back for a temp ignore function. Last time I put people there it was because of silliness which wasn't malicious, so I didn't want to keep them there. I'm sure there are people I should take off if I could just remember who. 

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  • 1 month later

OTOH, there's so many LFG requests on Excelsior at times that some people feel the need to repost their own every few seconds. Especially farm requests.

OTOH, there's so many LFG requests on Excelsior at times that some people feel the need to repost their own every few seconds. Especially farm requests.

OTOH, there's so many LFG requests on Excelsior at times that some people feel the need to repost their own every few seconds. Especially farm requests.

OTOH, there's so many LFG requests on Excelsior at times that some people feel the need to repost their own every few seconds. Especially farm requests.

OTOH, there's so many LFG requests on Excelsior at times that some people feel the need to repost their own every few seconds. Especially farm requests.

 

Can we get less of that, too?..

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11 hours ago, Blood Speaker said:

OTOH, there's so many LFG requests on Excelsior at times that some people feel the need to repost their own every few seconds. Especially farm requests.

 

In my experience, there's no reason to post to LFG more than once a minute, with the exception of a final "Full, thanks!" message. Perhaps you would fill your team or league a little faster with multiple requests to LFG, but that's not been my experience or my observation, and I suspect even if it were true the difference would be negligible.

 

As for AE farm requests, I think it would be wonderful if someone started a channel for that and we normalized sending channel invites for that in an attempt to move that traffic off LFG. I am absolutely not against farming, but it seems like a big enough portion of our population is into farming that it might be more effective for it to have its own channel. I don't care to run or participate on that channel, so I won't be the one starting it.

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1 hour ago, Oklahoman said:

As for AE farm requests, I think it would be wonderful if someone started a channel for that and we normalized sending channel invites for that in an attempt to move that traffic off LFG. I am absolutely not against farming, but it seems like a big enough portion of our population is into farming that it might be more effective for it to have its own channel. I don't care to run or participate on that channel, so I won't be the one starting it.

Now, how do you get Farmers to use said channel? That sure sounds like something that would get it's own tab before being quickly forgotten.

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2 hours ago, Krimson said:

Now, how do you get Farmers to use said channel? That sure sounds like something that would get it's own tab before being quickly forgotten.

 

That's the rub. So long as posting to LFG is effective, that's going to be everyone's go-to. I'm just saying that IF someone set up such a channel and IF we promoted that to farmers, it could potentially be a lot more efficient for everyone. But we'd also have to be willing, as a community, to see someone post to LFG that they are looking for a farm and then send them an invite for the farm channel - politely - suggesting they may have more success there.

 

But, yeah, if people are having more success getting on farms by posting to LFG than to this theoretical farming channel, people will stop using the farming channel. We'd have to decide as a community that we want to encourage use of the farming channel.

 

Were I to use such a channel, I would probably have it on its own tab, as you suggest, and only look at it when I am looking to farm. Much like I have LFG on its own tab and only look at it when I am looking for something to join. But that's just me.

 

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Just now, Oklahoman said:

 

That's the rub. So long as posting to LFG is effective, that's going to be everyone's go-to. I'm just saying that IF someone set up such a channel and IF we promoted that to farmers, it could potentially be a lot more efficient for everyone. But we'd also have to be willing, as a community, to see someone post to LFG that they are looking for a farm and then send them an invite for the farm channel - politely - suggesting they may have more success there.

 

But, yeah, if people are having more success getting on farms by posting to LFG than to this theoretical farming channel, people will stop using the farming channel. We'd have to decide as a community that we want to encourage use of the farming channel.

 

Were I to use such a channel, I would probably have it on its own tab, as you suggest, and only look at it when I am looking to farm. Much like I have LFG on its own tab and only look at it when I am looking for something to join. But that's just me.

 

Yes, the players are likely to use it, but the farmers are not. I already ignore most of the farming requests on LFG, unless I know the player or I think they might be helpful. I have certainly been invited to farms via LFG, though I never ask for one on the channel. So farmers do keep an eye on it. 

 

Sitters are usually a secondary consideration if a consideration at all. Farmers already know what type of players they are asking for. 

 

But aside from thinking the channel wouldn't get use, my main opposition to this is because the real goal is to segregate farmers and sitters from the other players, which doesn't sit right with me. This is because Looking for a Farm is STILL Looking for a Group. It is STILL a valid use of the channel. 

 

Now I'm gonna say something people are not going to like.

 

The ONLY difference between a farm and a regular mission is the mobs. I can take ANY farm, change one of the mobs to ranged, add some schlocky dialogue, and boom, Story Mission. If you don't believe me, just look at what passes for a storyline in some arcs. You have "Beat things up. Maybe click glowies." but with a story. 

 

I could run Unai Kemen all day, and so long as I don't use the word "farm", everyone is fine with it. 

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