Can We Talk About the New Aggro Algorithm?

[VV]

I know there is a focused feedback thread for it, but I want to discuss it more from a tanker tactics/strategy viewpoint. Personally, I am pretty excited about this because as a tanker-main, this is how I pretty much always played. Let's review.

Quote

 

Enemy Aggro Behavior Adjustments

• The aggro cap has been reworked to be less obvious and intrusive to gameplay.
• The cap is still 17. If a player exceeds the cap, the AI will prefer any other valid target. This means in a team environment there is no change to enemy behavior.
• If an AI-controlled enemy has no valid target due to them all being at the cap, it will choose the capped target with highest threat that is in range and use opportunistic ranged attacks. They will no longer mill about, oblivious to the action going on around them. Enemies that are beyond the cap *will not* pursue players that move out of range.
• Aggro cap processing is more dynamic. Instead of using a rigid priority system, it now uses a simplified version of the normal threat calculation, taking into account distance, total damage done, taunt duration, and rank. It is also periodically re-evaluated instead of being locked in. This should prevent scenarios where an aggro-capped tank tries to taunt enemies off an ally and the taunt is completely ignored.
• Player pets, including Mastermind pets ignore the cap. This change was made some time ago but is still in effect even with the revamp.

The goal of this change is to make it feel like there is no aggro cap at all, but still retain the desired game mechanics of a single tank being unable to maintain threat on or herd an unlimited number of foes.

 

 

I am particularly interested in the more dynamic processing. I tend to be one of those tanks that likes to pull well over 16 enemies, then use DoT patches and movement to keep them all corralled. But, that means that a lot of enemies do get a shot off here and there at the other players. This way, I'll be better able to pull things off of my teammates when necessary.

 

All in all, I'm pretty excited about this change!

[KaizenSoze]

I look forward to more experienced tankers testing this out.

 

My experience has been that this change will have more impact than the attack type changes. Outside of Lord Recluse, now his toxic attacks check only toxic/positional. Note, this is one of the reasons some armor sets received some toxic defense.

 

On the right map I can get 30+ mobs shooting at me, but the mobs pulled away from their spawn points will give up pretty quickly and head back to their spawn point if they are not aggro'ed regularly.

 

Soloers will get a nice stress test when they charge into densely packed rooms.

Edited July 14, 2022 by KaizenSoze

[Bill Z Bubba]

2 hours ago, KaizenSoze said:

Soloers will get a nice stress test when they charge into densely packed rooms.

 

Confirmed. Was a nice wake up call.

[Psyonico]

40 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

Confirmed. Was a nice wake up call.

Time to stress test my SR/Kat again

[Troo]

4 hours ago, VV said:

retain the desired game mechanics of a single tank being unable to maintain threat on or herd an unlimited number of foes.

4 hours ago, VV said:

threat calculation, taking into account distance, total damage done, taunt duration, and rank. It is also periodically re-evaluated instead of being locked in. This should prevent scenarios where an aggro-capped tank tries to taunt enemies off an ally and the taunt is completely ignored.

 

My understanding is that pulling over the cap targets will still spill aggro onto a team.

When taunt is used, which mobs are in the cap should shuffle based on when the re-evaluate happens. (maybe this allows a tank to hold more than the cap.. briefly)

 

3 hours ago, KaizenSoze said:

On the right map I can get 30+ mobs shooting at me, but the mobs pulled away from their spawn points will give up pretty quickly and head back to their spawn point if they are not aggro'ed regularly.

 

This I look forward to solo.

 

Edited July 14, 2022 by Troo

[Bopper]

4 hours ago, VV said:

I know there is a focused feedback thread for it, but I want to discuss it more from a tanker tactics/strategy viewpoint. Personally, I am pretty excited about this because as a tanker-main, this is how I pretty much always played. Let's review.

 

I am particularly interested in the more dynamic processing. I tend to be one of those tanks that likes to pull well over 16 enemies, then use DoT patches and movement to keep them all corralled. But, that means that a lot of enemies do get a shot off here and there at the other players. This way, I'll be better able to pull things off of my teammates when necessary.

 

All in all, I'm pretty excited about this change!

I'll say this... I was not a fan of being a tank at aggro cap and using my taunt on another group did nothing. The improvements to the Aggro stuff is nice, not just in terms of the AI seeming "less dumb" but also having my taunt work a bit more intuitively.

[Biff Pow]

Can we call it the Aggrorithm?

[Herotu]

Ooh, will we need to do herding again?! 😄

[ZemX]

19 minutes ago, Herotu said:

Ooh, will we need to do herding again?! 😄

 

Again?  Around here we call that a "Tuesday".

[VV]

On 7/13/2022 at 11:21 PM, Troo said:

My understanding is that pulling over the cap targets will still spill aggro onto a team.

When taunt is used, which mobs are in the cap should shuffle based on when the re-evaluate happens. (maybe this allows a tank to hold more than the cap.. briefly)

 

On 7/13/2022 at 11:45 PM, Bopper said:

I'll say this... I was not a fan of being a tank at aggro cap and using my taunt on another group did nothing. The improvements to the Aggro stuff is nice, not just in terms of the AI seeming "less dumb" but also having my taunt work a bit more intuitively.

Yes, this this this. I like to pull over cap so that the AOE'ers get the most bang from their buck. As stuff dies, there is more stuff already there to start taking damage. Speeds things up considerable. Also, gives me more to do as the Tanker. Currently, a big problem with this strategy is taunting someone off a squishy because the aggrorithm (TM) reacts so slowly and does not always check in the manner I am expecting. I am hoping that this update will fix that a lot. 

 

I would also love to see Taunt enhancements add to Mag instead of duration. I never bother to slot for Taunt duration because it already lasts plenty long, I can easily just re-taunt something, and punchvoke is enough most of the time, anyway. But, would I slot for Mag? Oh hell yeah.

On 7/14/2022 at 12:22 AM, Supertanker said:

Can we call it the Aggrorithm?

Yes, yes, we most certainly can.

On 7/14/2022 at 11:33 AM, Herotu said:

Ooh, will we need to do herding again?! 😄

I pretty much always do herding when on a tank. I do NOT do the "wait here while I bring them to you," kind of herding. I do the, "jump into one group, once it is going, start pulling in other groups to join the fun," type of herding. I prefer a non-stop tanking style.

[Bopper]

40 minutes ago, VV said:

would also love to see Taunt enhancements add to Mag instead of duration. I never bother to slot for Taunt duration because it already lasts plenty long, I can easily just re-taunt something, and punchvoke is enough most of the time, anyway. But, would I slot for Mag? Oh hell yeah.

Taunt duration plays into the formula for aggro, so don't ignore it completely.

[ZemX]

17 hours ago, Bopper said:

Taunt duration plays into the formula for aggro, so don't ignore it completely.

 

Isn't taunt duration the ONLY thing that plays into the threat formula related to taunt effects?  I don't see mag mentioned and I don't know of any taunt mag protection that exists anywhere, just resistance (which shortens duration).

 

Regardless, I've never bothered enhancing taunts for duration either.  It's just never a problem taunting off anybody else, especially with a tanker.  Maybe because I prefer tankers with decent AoEs early in their sets.  Laying down a taunt effect is nice, but adding damage to it while that taunt is still ticking away?  Nobody can top that because your damage is multiplied by taunt duration remaining which is then multiplied x1000.  

 

I can lose aggro to someone else who is taunting but, in my book, that's cool.  If they want aggro badly enough to taunt for it... I can share.

[Pep Rally]

On 7/14/2022 at 1:22 AM, Supertanker said:

Can we call it the Aggrorithm?

Aggro Rhythm?  Is that like zen for a Tanker?