Base Editor Changes: Things We'd All Like to See

[Dacy]

People of Paragon!
This post and the following polls are designed to give a voice to the base building community, and all of those who use and enjoy the bases made possible by you, the developers.

 

We want to call attention to some things that are very important to us (additions that would make base building easier and more accessible for all.)  Currently, many people would like a wonderful base, but, there are not many who can spend the time and effort it currently takes to make a wonderful base. However, there are of course awesome bases, and a variety of bases from the personal use bases to the community zone bases, clubs, event bases such as the Witch’s House, and the many created for RP, all of which contribute to the game! From being able to store items and craft and access services from one location for average players, to community events, bases can and do affect the entire game and the entire player base.

 

Making base building better can make the game better for everyone. More people would build if some things were easier. There are many who try, and give up in frustration. Now, base building has improved significantly, in huge ways, since Live, and we appreciate that tremendously! And we certainly appreciate the additions to the library of objects we have to work with. However, we would like to see improvements in functionality in the editor; things that will make editing easier. We have a vast array of miscellaneous items, but few basic building blocks. I’ve seen many people give up building entirely from frustration due to base shift (objects shifting out of position); just getting rid of base shift would be HUGE for so many people. And we have lots of individual items, one example being walls, but these are thick and most are only in large segments, making smaller wall sections and things like the areas above doors and windows very challenging to create. Modular walls that are tint-able and include smaller segments and sections made to fill in over doors or windows would be awesome. These are just a couple of examples of things we’ve been asking for, but as individuals. We're trying to consolidate the things most often asked for into a focused message.

 

What follows are two polls: the first is listing things that would require a programming change.  (We don’t know if the things we are listing are possible, and if they are straight up impossible, please let us know so we can drop that and move to the more possible.) The second poll is related to items that could be created. Please look at the items and rank them according to your top 3. (Yes we know we all want ALL the things, but we need focus.) Resources and time limit what we can possibly get, so, let’s see what the majority of us consider to be the most important.

 

Thanks!!

-Dacy & Easter Bunny

 

Here is the Editor Program Change poll

Here is the Item poll

Edited August 26, 2022 by Dacy
add links

[SoStrange]

I'm just gonna put this comment here so that the topic can be pushed up a bit further so that devs can see it sooner rather than later because the options in the polls are all extremely interesting and I'd love for some (if not all) of them to be considered at least.
Thank you Dacy and Easter Bunny for making this post in the first place!

[Marine X]

I would really like to see if it is possible to add the Warehouse / Factory Map Office Doors that open when you click on them allowing you to walk into the Office space. Also the doors from the Praetorian Underground Maps that function similarly. This has always forced us to use TP beacons and waypoints to move from section to section of a base and would add to realism.

[JuliePhoenix]

I have to imagine that making changes to the code of the base editor itself is very tricky, but by gosh if it could be improved that would be a huge quality of life increase. Base shift probably has something to do with how the raw data is stored in the database; like getting rounded instead of stored precisely, or some kind of floating point precision error. Stuff like that might be exceptionally difficult to fix (or surprisingly simple, if someone figures out a clever workaround, you really never know). But I'm 100% just semi-educated guessing based on my own dubious programming experience. 

 

But adding more objects? That should be relatively simple, right? I say that with all the confidence of someone who doesn't know how its done in this particular game, but modding any other kind of game, creating a mesh and texturing it is fairly simple, as far as adding content goes. Having actual access to the codebase could only make it easier, if anything. 

 

Making NPCs customizable would be amazing, but I have to imagine that would involve a lot of new code, new data being stored in the database, a whole new UI, I'd put that one really low on the "realistic" list. With as wonky as am I given to understand the CoH codebase is, they want to keep any fundamental changes like that to an absolute minimum. That's why adding new objects is easy, enabling functions that were always there but limited to admins, is easy. Changing the way the system *works* is much harder. 

 

But yeah, between Base Building and the Costume Creator, I am dying to see more work done to keep this community innovating and making more and more things possible, because we've already gone SO far past what was ever possible on Live.

[Flintlock Burnfur]

I’m always down for more items.

 

The coffee cup seen in Port Oakes.

 

The gas station or just the pumps seen in Nuetropolis.

 

Even the houses found in Nuetropolis.

 

Signage. Icon sign, generic street signs, highway signs.

 

A smaller font.

 

I’ll post more with screenshot later.

[Admiral]

Submitted my votes!

Now, I know this may be something impossible, but why not try and throw this Idea in the air anyways 😄 :

How cool would it be to be able to place enemy spawns in the SG base? Hear me out.

To make things far, they wouldn't need to generate XP, but imagine how it would favor for a more immersive RP scene and time use in our SG bases, especially for those who make their own outdoor maps.

As an AE creator, time and time again I've made content for groups that exceeded more than 8 persons. I've recently made fun events where I utilized bases as the playground for scenes.
It would be a nice touch as well for those who make bases that are based on aspects of a particular zone and still want to give off the danger levels of that zone.

In terms of how it could work, I thought about how you can place different skies or FX on the map.. an area sized invisible marker that can generate enemy spawns. enemies -like invasion enemies- can scale with whoever is fighting.

-it doesnt have to be custom characters but a category tab of which ever already made in-game enemy groups. The drop can just be a random selection of enemy types from that group (just like in normal outside zones)

I know I know.. it's probably impossible.. but to me, it was worth at least throwing that out there. Ive seen and have made bases where it would benefit so much to have sections of it to watch out for hostiles. 

Anyway, thanks for humoring me if you read through all of this 😄  

[Dacy]

I appreciate all of the comments! Please keep them coming. Please keep in mind, the staff here are volunteers, and as such, no one can dedicate the hours towards creating things and programming that someone could if this was their job, so we're keeping our wish list focused. I'd love to hear your reasoning for your top picks, for instance. 🙂

 

As to base shift: that wasn't even on our list, but an unnamed source who knows much more than I do said something that let us know that it MIGHT be possible to fix base shift, and yes, it's exactly because of how the numbers are stored (rounding error, they're put into text fields). Our minds were BLOWN that such a pervasive, annoying, and base-ruining fact of life that we've just been trying our best to work around and live with might be FIXABLE, it quickly became our number one item. I'm quite sure it'd take some effort, and the editor is notoriously poorly coded and touchy, but if it can be done, well, it had to be on the list so maybe they will try. I'm sure it's not a dev first pick for oh, this looks fun, I'll work on THIS, lol.

 

The NPC stuff and the texture mapping were things I'd heard thru the grapevine might be being worked on, or were at one point in time. Hoping to let whomever might have had that project in mind, YES, we'd LOVE THAT. (And we LOVE YOU for ALL YOU DO!! <3)

 

Also, it's possible that it is being worked on, and that more newly created things are waiting on something like texture mapping before they can be added, in which case, let's let them know, YES, PLEASE, that would be AWESOME. 🙂  Of course, I'd also take any of the items as tintable only, but I can understand they wouldn't want to do two different sets of the same thing because one can't take texture mapping, if and when it does come out.

 

Just thinking of that level of improvement to the editor completely blows my mind! We have such an AWESOME DEV TEAM!

 

-Dacy

[Greycat]

Wishlist of things I'd like to see:

 

- Fixing some of the early items. For instance, I almost never use the SG tables, even on live, because they're *gigantic* and if you can sit in the chairs even the largest characters look like five year olds at the adult table.  Even some of the later items are better done if you have the individual components (thinking of booths.)

 

- Would probably take work: An "Align" command. Both for parts (similar to snapping pieces to a grid - align chair to table at a usable distance, for instance) and, honestly, for characters to be able to sit in things instead of floating over them. But that's more a pipe dream. 

 

- Scaling. Especially if tied with basic "lego block" shapes we can use. And tied with that -

- Save / Copy Custom Item, so you only have to do it once and have a "drawer" to pull it out of again.  Even if it's base only.

 

I have no idea how easy or hard those two would be.

 

- Preset permissions. Probably as part of an (overhauled) SG permission window.  Right now, any storage just takes "top rank only for get/put." Great if you only have 1-2 items - which, back when everything cost prestige, was probably the case as you were putting them down. Now, it's just a pain. I tend (in the "function over form" bases) to have - say - two tables per level range for commons (10-25, 30-35, 40-50,) and probably "set" and "Special," which turns into time having to go into each one to set it so everyone (or most people) can use them. Then I have to do the same thing with the salvage storage.  I'd rather just set it once and have everything inherit it. (I'd also go for having them wide open by default and just having to go in to tweak what I want to be more restrictive. It'd still take less time.)

 

- More default floor/wall textures. I'm kind of surprised (for instance) that we don't have a "Grass" floor to choose from (like factory grid, harano, etc.) Or "Dirt," though that can be recolored from some of the other.

 

- Guessing it would be a server-intensive thing, but *to my understanding,* pets generally don't work well in bases (for masterminds/controllers) because there's no pathing in the bases telling them where they can go. If you're close, they can follow you, but don't do it well. Being able to schedule a pathing run on a finished base - probably with restrictions on when and how often it can be run - would be nice, and potentially open the door for things like base NPCs walking around. (For instance, have a restaraunt with a server making the rounds of tables on a path you set, or just "wander freely," etc.) *IF* this were opened up, I'd probably see it as "Put in a request for it to the development team to run" versus "Player can trigger whenever."

[Osirisbain]

more NPC's in general, I know custom NPC's would be awesome but that would be a lot to do, is it possible to just add all the NPC skins to the list?? Most of the NPC's we have are all modern style, we need more of the fantasy style NPC's (Tsoo, Cimerora, Circle of Thorns....etc)

[Dacy]

Hopefully, you found these items on the poll and voted for them.

 

Scaling was brought up. I was told it's just not possible. I don't know why, as we have scaling in the costume creator, but, that's what they said. Would be awesome, tho!

 

One goal I know I heard on NPCs was, to get rid of the library of having different NPCs in different poses, and to have just a couple of NPCs that you could then choose position and clothing for (and hopefully, faces!). Yes, please! 🙂 So that is why that's on the list, and in general, why asking for this NPC or that NPC isn't going anywhere. As far as my info indicates, anyway. I think the programming hope is that they want to make fewer items that are more versatile, which I can certainly understand! The library is already huge and overwhelms many people. I can't count the times I've used an item and heard, "Wow, what is that? I've never seen that before..." so having  some basic building blocks that can look like many different things would be ideal.

So here's hoping!

-Dacy

[CaptA]

Fixing base shift would be great. What I really want is a group/copy/paste function that would allow you to build something out of objects, group it as one, and copy/paste it as desired. This could cut down massive amounts of time. 

 

Also making the walls transparent would be another great ability. It would be so nice to look off into the distance and see a skyline or other vistas. 

 

Edit: also, more wall art

Edited August 26, 2022 by CaptA

[KingofMonkeys]

Obviously I would love to spawn (reward free) mobs in my base for the thrill of it, or for an event. I know the AI is wonky for summons above the base, but maybe a temporary solution would be something like AI blocks/planes that can be placed to help fix npc/hireling AI? I would love to have some mobs attempt to infiltrate my castle, I know the AI hurdles would make this nigh impossible but one can dream.

 

Base PvP mode toggle On/Off

 

NPCs/Animals/Robots that have preset animations or even walk around if the AI allows it.

 

Interactable objects like doors/plaquees/chests that can display a text popup or even trigger a switch, yes/no gate open, etc

 

The ability to rename teleport points

 

WhowilldieLava texture at long last

 

Some contributions off the top of my head 🙂

 

 

Edited August 26, 2022 by KingofMonkeys

[Rudra]

13 minutes ago, KingofMonkeys said:

Obviously I would love to spawn (reward free) mobs in my base for the thrill of it, or for an event. And yeah, I know the AI is wonky, but maybe a temporary solution would AI blocks/planes that can be places on current (above base) textures to help fix enemy/hireling AI? I would love to have some mobs attempt to infiltrate my castle, I know the AI hurdles would make this nigh impossible but one can dream.

YES PLEASE!!!! I would love to actually put hostile critters in my maze instead of docile wolves and leopards just looking at you while standing in place. Having some roving 0 XP 0 inf' minotaurs would be fantastic!

 

Edit: Also, yes please for actual lava that can harm characters in the bases, invisible floors so my lake can actually be swam in by characters instead of walking along the lake floor (or a water tile that has an invisible floor/bottom), functional doors so I can use the teleporters to access unlinked areas of the base while keeping linked areas doored off, Warworks bots that aren't stone carvings, Malta bots that actually look like Malta bots instead of prototype frameworks, and... *passes out from fantasizing about base upgrades*

Edited August 26, 2022 by Rudra

[Dacy]

Be sure you are finding the things on the poll most dear to you and voting for them. Dev time is very limited, and our requests and desires, nearly endless, so if we want progress, we need focused direction. Teleport points and texture mapping (for things like sand, lava, snow, wood, metal, etc) are on the polls. 🙂 We looked at the things most requested/needed to come up with what we put there; too many choices and it gets overwhelming really fast. I'm truly sorry if some of your favorites are not there (and in trying to get the items posted, I had deleted two categories that I was unable to add back), but we felt that the most asked for items should be the focus.  I'm hoping that, if the devs realize how many of us prioritize base improvements, more of said improvements will be worked on, so eventually more of the items not currently on the list will be able to be addressed.

 

-Dacy

[Dacy]

6 minutes ago, Rudra said:

 invisible floors so my lake can actually be swam in by characters instead of walking along the lake floor

 Place glass floors under the water so that you're at the height you'd like to be at, then your characters can swim. You won't be able to see the glass, because calm water kills fx, and glass floors are in that category.

 

-Dacy

[Rudra]

I did use glass floors. You can still see the glass, so it becomes a glass-topped lake you can partially swim in. So I removed the glass floors. Then I took other surfaces and placed them at swim depth, and flipped them upside down so you would be looking down through the textureless side. Except while on the surfaces, the camera shifts to the textured side and now all you can see is grass, or wood, or tile, or whatever the surface is. So I removed those as well. So I have a nice fish-filled lake with floating stones pouring waterfalls into it that can only be looked at or walked along the bottom in.

[Dacy]

12 minutes ago, Rudra said:

I did use glass floors. You can still see the glass, so it becomes a glass-topped lake you can partially swim in. So I removed the glass floors. Then I took other surfaces and placed them at swim depth, and flipped them upside down so you would be looking down through the textureless side. Except while on the surfaces, the camera shifts to the textured side and now all you can see is grass, or wood, or tile, or whatever the surface is. So I removed those as well. So I have a nice fish-filled lake with floating stones pouring waterfalls into it that can only be looked at or walked along the bottom in.

Not sure what happened there. I invite you to come into my Everlasting base, Overkill, where I have a deep lake with a sea base you can see at the bottom, yet you can swim wherever you want. 🙂 (I'll meet you in game if you'd like whenever you're free). I'm also happy to come into your base and see if I can figure out what is wrong.

 

-Dacy

[Rudra]

I'm on Everlasting right now. I can meet you.

[Dacy]

So, on the copy/paste, I had a thought, if a straight copy/paste isn't workable, maybe a workaround that I know already exists, might be? Here's the thing: if I have an item already out, let's say it has a floor attachment, and I then go to another item with a floor attachment and I change its attachment to "surface", and then go back to the first item that had a "floor" attachment, that item will switch to "surface". Try it if you don't believe me. You can actually get the entry portal to attach via surface in this manner, even tho if you try to manually change the attachment for that item, it  will tell you that that item's attachment can't be changed.

 

So my idea/workaround would be, a "Style" like assignment, such as you find in Word or Office: any traits that can be assigned which you did to an object, you can then designate to be assigned to other objects. So, it'd be a lot LIKE copy/paste, in that, instead of having to tilt and color and lift something over and over again, you'd just style it, and it'd take on whatever characteristics you did to the first one. As I mentioned...clearly, this is already present in the editor in some capacity, although I am not sure at all that it was ever intentional. If it could be figured out what coding is doing this, perhaps it could be formalized as a style feature.

 

-Dacy

[Dacy]

42 minutes ago, Rudra said:

I'm on Everlasting right now. I can meet you.

So, message me @Dacy, I'm waiting 🙂

[Coyotedancer]

3 hours ago, CaptA said:

Also making the walls transparent would be another great ability. It would be so nice to look off into the distance and see a skyline or other vistas. 

 

On that note.... There are a couple of things that would be epic as "Base Template" starting options, if we could ever get those set up. Things that I know are possible with some back-end tinkering, but that can't ordinarily be done out here on Homecoming by any of us as players.

 

The ability to start with a real "one room" base using the full grid, for instance, either of the traditional sort with bounding walls or as a filled-in "build above the plot"-type without them. Or having that filled in one-room style with "horizon to horizon" water or grass tiles already in place. 

[oddrobin]

Any of these poll suggestions would be highly welcome and appreciated. Thank you for putting them forth!

[Dythok]

I would love to see some of these ideas implemented.  Anything to lower the barrier of entry into base building and help speed up the process.

I know one of the things that deters me from base building is just the amount of time I wind up spending because you're often moving lots of little things and repeating the same actions over and over again.

I know I'd love to be able to just save a base, copy it, and use it on other characters.  Or build this incredible base on one shard, then copy it to other shards.

[TaleFromYourPocket]

Here's a small quick one, that's suddenly become relevant with the new lore update-- tintable IV bags; we have all sorts of blood colors here, our hospital equipment is way too human centric right now!

 

More long term-- greenscreens, or really any large flat surface that we can tint, would go a long way towards cutting down on repeated object usage. Just building a wall that isn't mansion fancy can take hundreds of pieces.

 

Fabrics-- blankets, pillows, towels, cushions and the likes. We use modern paintings for pillows and towels a lot.

A few more animal NPCs wouldn't go amiss, either. I love the challenge of inventing kittens wholesale, but it's a little frustrating to build spiders from scratch when we've Seen the assets in the game.

'Hostile' NPCs, that just have the skins. It would be nice to stock my faction bases with employees of the appropriate faction!

If the glass pieces we Have could get fixed so they line up properly on the grid, that would be great. And similarly, single panels of the 'glass floor plate' pieces.

 

I'll second the request for smaller alphabets; right now, if I want text that can fit in the corkboards, I have to make the letters out of soap. I'll also second that request for more wall textures, or even more stand alone wall pieces, given the amount we break up spaces. Similarly, I would second the request for the sizing of the SG tables being fixed- and I would also like to ask if the sizings of the casino tables and wooden chair 4 could be fixed to be usable by human beings, too. (The office chairs in the sets and attached to the desks could use resizing too; and the cubicles with chairs attached are unusable by players.)

 

One or two single person beds wouldn't be horrible. The vanity is missing Part of it's texture in back, but only part. And cobwebs, for our abandoned buildings, would be sort of nice. Clothing racks that are straight instead of round, maybe, for building our closets with? And following that theme, versions of the trash bins, waste basket, and recycling with trash actually in them? Cluttering one can take a dozen individual items easy.

And, finally, one small, silly request- supergroup mugs. Like the arachnos mugs, but tintable and with our emblems instead of Arachnos. So we can have custom coffee mugs at last.

[Velvet Mystique]

Props to Dacy for organizing these polls and getting more visibility for builders! My votes have been submitted.