Can you no longer convert Empyrean Merits to Reward Merits?

[mtmittens]

Used to do this all the time, was a godsend. Now when you go to the merit vendor, the conversion is gone. I'm not sure if they moved it to another location or if they completely scrapped that conversion. Hopefully it  is not the latter, because making the game more grindy isn't fun for anyone.

[Erratic1]

Removed in the last patch.

[mtmittens]

Thanks for the reply. That's a damn shame, can't think of any good reason for getting rid of it.

[Excraft]

55 minutes ago, mtmittens said:

Thanks for the reply. That's a damn shame, can't think of any good reason for getting rid of it.

 

There wasn't a good reason for getting rid of it, no matter what the cheerleaders say. 

 

1 hour ago, mtmittens said:

Hopefully it  is not the latter, because making the game more grindy isn't fun for anyone.

 

That seems to be the goal unfortunately.  Have to keep the inner circle happy though!

 

 

Edited September 19, 2022 by Excraft

[TalynDerre]

Yeah, I loved a lot of the changes but that one didn't sit well with me.

[tidge]

[Oklahoman]

I think there's been some recent discussion of this here, here, and here.

 

Unfortunately, the best opportunity for change was during the beta window here.

This page release really emphasized to me the importance of people participating in the focused feedback threads. It will probably be a personal mission of mine for future updates to try to steer people towards those threads.

[Lazarillo]

4 hours ago, mtmittens said:

Hopefully it  is not the latter, because making the game more grindy isn't fun for anyone.

This feels quite backwards.  Reward Merits can be earned super fast and in greater numbers across lots of different content.  Empyreans themselves are much more grindy to obtain, and can be sent to alts and used for Incarnate stuff that Reward Merits cannot.  I kinda shudder to think how much more I'd have had to grind many of my character if I'd blown Empyreans effectively on stuff that I can buy from the AH...

[Omega-202]

5 hours ago, mtmittens said:

Thanks for the reply. That's a damn shame, can't think of any good reason for getting rid of it.

It was changed to close a loophole that was being exploited by farmers to churn out hundreds of merits per hour.

 

What @Excraft is intentionally leaving out is that 90% of content that used to reward Empyrean Merits now also reward standard Reward Merits so you don't lose out.  Incarnate trials used to only give Emps.  Now they give out Emps and Reward Merits, so you don't lose anything.

 

The only thing you lose out on is if you made a habit of using your lvl50+ freebie Emps on Reward Merits instead of using them as intended: unlocking Incarnate powers. 

[arcane]

4 hours ago, Excraft said:

 

There wasn't a good reason for getting rid of it, no matter what the cheerleaders say. 

 

 

That seems to be the goal unfortunately.  Have to keep the inner circle happy though!

 

 

This poster has been on a crusade of bitterness since Page 4 hit beta. Best to take their posts with a grain of salt. They’re not a huge fan of facts 🙂 

[espectro]

1 hour ago, arcane said:

This poster has been on a crusade of bitterness since Page 4 hit beta. Best to take their posts with a grain of salt. They’re not a huge fan of facts 🙂

this dude is that other dudes stalker. creepy

[Ironblade]

5 hours ago, Excraft said:

 

There wasn't a good reason for getting rid of it, no matter what the cheerleaders say.

 

 

There was *A* reason.  Whether it was good or bad is 100% subjective.

 

[ivanhedgehog]

9 hours ago, mtmittens said:

Thanks for the reply. That's a damn shame, can't think of any good reason for getting rid of it.

you were playing wrong. they nerfed the rewards from just playing your character to drive you play the specific content they wanted you to play. and created a new special class that gets rewards way beyond any other playstyle in the game.

Edited September 20, 2022 by ivanhedgehog

[tidge]

Ain't no vision like tunnel vision.

[Ukase]

16 hours ago, Omega-202 said:

The only thing you lose out on is if you made a habit of using your lvl50+ freebie Emps on Reward Merits instead of using them as intended: unlocking Incarnate powers. 

This is a bit mis-leading. Prior to the change from this patch, you can't really say that using emps "as intended" was for incarnate progress only.  

Yes, it's certainly true before shutdown that emp merits were used for incarnate progress - but they were also used for other items - as shown below: 

 

That's just Emp Mike, and doesn't show Astral Kristy. 

Historically, emps and astrals were used for recipes and such just as well as incarnate progress. 

As for this change from last patch, some folks probably missed it, but the reason for the change had more to do with a few bad apples that were reportedly using the emp->reward merit exchange in a nefarious manner. It's still lost on me why our HC dev team didn't lead with their reasoning instead of having countless pages of debate over the issue. But, I'm just a visitor here. Not my game, I just get to play here. Someone did finally explain what was going on, but felt they couldn't share too much, lest some players take advantage of specific info. 
 

[Spectral]

22 hours ago, mtmittens said:

Used to do this all the time, was a godsend. Now when you go to the merit vendor, the conversion is gone. I'm not sure if they moved it to another location or if they completely scrapped that conversion. Hopefully it  is not the latter, because making the game more grindy isn't fun for anyone.

As others said: it was removed by the devs with page 4. (No need to beat a dead horse... again... for the 100th time...)

 

A side info that has a tendency to get lost over this removal: most content that used to give Empyreans (like ITrials) now automagically also (on top) provides the corresponding amount of reward merits you would have gotten from converting...

[Omega-202]

33 minutes ago, Ukase said:

This is a bit mis-leading. Prior to the change from this patch, you can't really say that using emps "as intended" was for incarnate progress only.  

Yes, it's certainly true before shutdown that emp merits were used for incarnate progress - but they were also used for other items - as shown below: 

 

That's just Emp Mike, and doesn't show Astral Kristy. 

Historically, emps and astrals were used for recipes and such just as well as incarnate progress. 

As for this change from last patch, some folks probably missed it, but the reason for the change had more to do with a few bad apples that were reportedly using the emp->reward merit exchange in a nefarious manner. It's still lost on me why our HC dev team didn't lead with their reasoning instead of having countless pages of debate over the issue. But, I'm just a visitor here. Not my game, I just get to play here. Someone did finally explain what was going on, but felt they couldn't share too much, lest some players take advantage of specific info. 
 

You're trying to nitpick without seemingly reading my full statement.  Let me reiterate:

 

34 minutes ago, Ukase said:

The only thing you lose out on is if you made a habit of using your lvl50+ freebie Emps on Reward Merits instead of using them as intended: unlocking Incarnate powers. 

 

The level 50+ freebie merits didn't exist on Live.  They were added on SCORE and HC specifically to allow people to upgrade their incarnate abilities without having to run trials.

 

Empyrean Michael and Astral Kitty never co-existed with the freebie lvl 50+ Emps so your response is a complete non sequitor.  The intended purpose of the freebie lvl 50+ Emps cannot have anything to do with cashing them in for the reward tables you screenshotted.

[Ukase]

1 hour ago, Omega-202 said:

You're trying to nitpick without seemingly reading my full statement. 

And you are correct. I was nitpicking; no offense meant. 

My only purpose was to demonstrate that emp merits were not solely used for incarnate materials. 

The vet level rewards...man, what can I say about them, except I'm super glad we have them! 
 

 

I should add that I wouldn't know a non sequitor if it bit me in the backside. If you're gonna make me break out my dictionary, bring out more than one polysyllabic word so it's worth my while. 
And a phonetic guide, too. I've read the word before, but I don't think I've ever heard it aloud. Snarky will make fun of me if I mispronounce it. 

Edited September 20, 2022 by Ukase

[lemming]

21 hours ago, Oklahoman said:

I think there's been some recent discussion of this here, here, and here.

 

Unfortunately, the best opportunity for change was during the beta window here.

This page release really emphasized to me the importance of people participating in the focused feedback threads. It will probably be a personal mission of mine for future updates to try to steer people towards those threads.

Yea, I've been stuck on a 2012 laptop since May so I didn't get any real testing done and feel I still haven't really felt out all the changes.

I don't think I'm the only one that felt this page had a lot more to test than usual.

 

At least I should be coming out of the dark ages in computer hardware soon.

[Seed22]

On 9/19/2022 at 10:35 AM, Excraft said:

 

There wasn't a good reason for getting rid of it, no matter what the cheerleaders say. 

 

 

That seems to be the goal unfortunately.  Have to keep the inner circle happy though!

 

 

Only thing I think this change did was make it so I had Transcendant Merits for new 50's. I don't think I'm grinding more for INF,  in fact, I only did the HM ITF when it was fresh for about a week, walked away with enough inf that now I definitely don't need to grind for...probably ever again, actually. I'm not like some folks with 100bil or whatever, I just have enough to not need to grind anymore

[Erratic1]

I sometimes wonder what goes through people's heads. While I refrain from suggesting various possibilities, I will express dismay at being downvoted for a dispassionate response factually stating what was done in the last patch, as if I personally had a hand in patch changes or expressed support or opposition to them.

 

The forum community is becoming a bit too insane/toxic.

 

 

[Neiska]

Farmer here, and just adding my two cents. Overall I have been largely unaffected by the changes. A few things here or there, but overall nothing to write home about. Some changes such as the aggro change has made some of my farming setups even faster by about 45 seconds per map. But economically? Very little change. I hoard my merits and emps to begin with. I usually spend my merits on unslotters or converters, but not to sell, but to help facilitate alt #41375. The same goes for emps. So since I never really used my merits for money in the first place, the change hasn't really affected me one way or another.

 

The only big noticeable change for me is the EXP, but since that was a bug correction I tend to consider it the price of making things right so I'm okay with it. And the exp rate hasn't really affected my active farming overly much either, only passive/afk farming takes noticeably longer now. But since I only passive/afk farm when I'm well, doing real life adult things, again, hasn't really bothered me. That just means I can do another chore or two before having to change maps, that's it really.

 

Now I will admit, when they were discussing the removal of vet levels in farms, my heart was in my throat, as I pretty much depend on those levels for my emp merits, which I use to give alts incarnate powers. But since that change didn't come to pass, I let out a sigh of relief.

 

So overall... ..hasn't really affected me. Even the prismatic salvage for costumes, hasn't really been good or bad for me either way.

 

My opinion and personal experience so far, for what that's worth.

[battlewraith]

2 hours ago, Erratic1 said:

I sometimes wonder what goes through people's heads

 

Well, you asked.

 

I saw your post earlier and recognized your avatar. When I saw your second post, though, the avatar looked like somebody's head wearing a hat. And it looked that way for a while. But then I took a closer look and it reverted back to a guy's torso with his arms crossed. And now, no matter how hard I try, I can no longer see the face wearing a hat.

[arcane]

2 hours ago, Erratic1 said:

I sometimes wonder what goes through people's heads. While I refrain from suggesting various possibilities, I will express dismay at being downvoted for a dispassionate response factually stating what was done in the last patch, as if I personally had a hand in patch changes or expressed support or opposition to them.

 

The forum community is becoming a bit too insane/toxic.

 

 

Narratives don’t care about your facts. 

[battlewraith]

1 hour ago, arcane said:

Narratives don’t care about your facts. 

Hmmmm....sounds like something a fast talking emo Keebler elf would say. Ben is that you?

 

Yeah this change was a bad one, It penalized a certain type of player in order to address some fringe issue with people farming emps. In the same issue where they added extremely profitable hardmode content--cutting the profits of one outlier group while boosting the profits of another. And they added merits to some of the trials--which is great if you actually run that kind of content. If you didn't--well now you will need to if you want to replace what you lost with this conversion being gone. It's not as if the devs just made up for the loss, the way some people are framing this issue. 

 

Is it a huge deal? Not really. Did it make the game better? No. Did it add additional hassle? Yes.

 

Yes people are bitter over this. And they will remain bitter about it because it's probably been part of their routine for years. 

So when this dead horse gets flogged yet again...I know that upstanding members of this community will continue to explain why the complainers are wrong (in their opinion), why the change isn't a big deal (to them) and continue to mock them away (like fucking twats).

That's what community is all about these days.

 

btw, 

@Erratic1 I appreciate you simply stating the facts.

@Oklahoman I appreciate you for being an actual pillar of the community and being a leader ingame. You've certainly helped me out.