Focused Feedback: Mercenaries Revamp

[Voltixdark]

Awesome update! If I may ask for a feature request add-on; Is it possible to separate the Medic soldier so that he can have dedicated healing instead of juggling between damage and healing. As of now there are no healing/damage enhancement sets. So maybe if possible and and if anyone else can chime in, maybe Serum can have a revamp. I noticed that Equip Mercenary already has resistance, and Serum has resistance as well. So healing could be added to Serum to buff the Medic healing capabilities. Or the Medic could replace Serum, and the buffs from Serum could be added to the Equip Mercenary/Tactical Upgrade.

[Redletter]

On 10/5/2022 at 1:02 PM, Faultline said:

 

It intentionally doesn't because otherwise people read the patch notes, don't bother testing anything, and argue for pages after pages on performance based on what they read, rather than any actual play testing. While this always happens, last page it was egregious enough that for this Powers Preview patch we're just not going to be giving extreme detail on things. People should test. We want feedback based on how all the changes combined impact performance, rather than people isolating a single change and crying bloody murder while ignoring everything else.

 

I figured it was because the sheer volume of changes made to mercs in particular were too numerous to even begin to explain with any amount of brevity.

 

When I saw that Mercs, my precious babies (see: Dark Curse) were going to be molested by the REVAMP HAMMER i grew very concerned. I was told, long ago when the accursed knowledge was passed to me, that making mercs good would require truly RANCID rituals of coding that no creature of man was fit to undertake.

 

Thankfully, it did not take much research at all to see my fears were misplaced.

THE CONE REMAINS -- OUR DOOM WILL WAIT ANOTHER DAY...

[Player-1]

Hi all, just want to clear up a misconception about Focus Fire:

It is not a +Damage Buff, nor is it -Resistance on the target. It is a base damage multiplier where the Mercenary Henchmen will deal X% more base damage before +Dam or -Res takes effect. Comparing it to those effects directly is a bit tricky as they actually multiply the damage even further.

[Dispari]

I almost wonder if you should rename it because I was thinking it was only against the person you're attacking, which is more like what "focus fire" would mean. Or does it only work on the one person you're aiming at? Dang I don't even know now.

Edited October 7, 2022 by Dispari

[Wavicle]

1 hour ago, Player-1 said:

Hi all, just want to clear up a misconception about Focus Fire:

It is not a +Damage Buff, nor is it -Resistance on the target. It is a base damage multiplier where the Mercenary Henchmen will deal X% more base damage before +Dam or -Res takes effect. Comparing it to those effects directly is a bit tricky as they actually multiply the damage even further.

 

Wait wait wait...DOES IT or DOES IT NOT only affect damage against the MMs TARGET??

[Dispari]

Okay I did some testing in AE.

Pet does 5.6 damage with his attacks.
If I pew the guy once the pets' damage boosts up to 5.79 (indeed about 3.33%)
Two pews ups it all the way to 5.98 (about 6.66%)

If I tell him to change targets, he's back down to 5.6
Back to first target and it's 5.98

So yes the bonus damage only applies to who the MM shot specifically.

[Xandyr]

4 hours ago, Player-1 said:

Hi all, just want to clear up a misconception about Focus Fire:

It is not a +Damage Buff, nor is it -Resistance on the target. It is a base damage multiplier where the Mercenary Henchmen will deal X% more base damage before +Dam or -Res takes effect. Comparing it to those effects directly is a bit tricky as they actually multiply the damage even further.

 

 Would it be possible to add, like, a reticle/cross hairs, on the MM's target once he/she lands a hit to "spawn" Focus Fire? 

[Dispari]

1 hour ago, Xandyr said:

 Would it be possible to add, like, a reticle/cross hairs, on the MM's target once he/she lands a hit to "spawn" Focus Fire? 

I'm gonna go the other way on this and say, it should just work on all the pets on all targets. Then it won't need an icon or anything.

That's how the ninjas work. It boosts all of their crit rates regardless of target. And the math works out on that the same way. A 3% chance to do double damage is just a 3% increase in damage. You can easily keep up with how the buff is being applied (or not) by just looking at your buff icons.

The way the mercs version works, it's a very small bonus to a single target. You can't keep track of if it's still up or not. You can't keep track of how many stacks you applied. You still have to actually make sure your pets are attacking that specific target (which wouldn't work if you're doing bodyguard mode). And even if it all goes well and you use all 3 powers and use them it's a 10% damage bonus against... one guy. That's Not Great.

So I think it's clumsy all around. It should just be a damage increase to all mercs per attack power used. Call it rally or command or morale or orders or initiative or teamwork or synergy or something. Your soldiers fight harder because you're fighting alongside them.

[Riverdusk]

Have to say I'm underwhelmed by the 3% increase on the target per attack.  I did try it on test and like @Dispari said, you can't really see it, you can't keep track of it, and honestly I didn't really notice the difference.  I was specifically wondering whether the M30 grenade also only worked on the target, even though it is an AOE attack, and I THINK it does only work on the target (which is also unintuitive? It's an aoe attack?).  I can only say I think though, because honestly it was so slight I had a hard time even testing it. 

 

It definitely isn't enough to encourage me to actually take any attacks I wasn't otherwise inclined to take.  Would probably change things if it was just a regular buff that wasn't limited to just one target and impossible to track.

 

[Dispari]

I would also point out, two of your three attacks do knockback, which you'd have to reign in, which is even more work for minimal benefit in this case.

[Xandyr]

In the description for Equip Mercenary, it doesn't show anything about Resistances (Tactical Upgrade DOES show the Defense buffs it gives). Is this a bug or an oversight?

 

[Wavicle]

1 hour ago, Xandyr said:

In the description for Equip Mercenary, it doesn't show anything about Resistances (Tactical Upgrade DOES show the Defense buffs it gives). Is this a bug or an oversight?

 

It doesn’t show it in the info, but it Does give it to them when you use it.

[Xandyr]

1 hour ago, Wavicle said:

It doesn’t show it in the info, but it Does give it to them when you use it.

Correct.  I just thought it should be listed as well.

[Shazbotacus]

I'm still trying to get my Mercs on the test server respecced, set up, and throw it at some stuff, but immediately I kinda wish Serum didn't need perma hasten levels of recharge to be perma. I'm not sure if it'll really matter that much, if henchmen will die too quickly anyways, but the vast amount of resistance possible here makes me think they should be very, very sturdy.

I've got the idea of 900s cooldown 480s duration in my head. It's barely perma-able on enhancements alone, 15 minutes on cooldown and 8 minute in duration, nice 'n round, but if your henchmen drop while Serum is still on cooldown, your reinforcements will be frail until it's back, meaning there's still value in keeping them alive, and it's still worth it to have more recharge reduction yourself. I just don't like having to go into sets to make things perma, it's why I picked /Dark out in the first place. Besides, with how henchmen are likely to die, it could end up not being very "perma" anyways.

I may have some more informed feedback after I get things set up, whenever that happens.

Edited October 8, 2022 by Shazbotacus

[Lost Deep]

A little more testing, and I noticed something: I'm not using Serum.

 

Serum is a massive buff... once every eight minutes. Some missions won't last that long. With a duration of two minutes, it can cover several fights. It's often still running the next time I change maps. But then you spend 8 minutes with it not even an option: a detectably long time. The result? I forget I have it. And then when I have it, I'm nervous about using it: it's too precious to use. If in 3 minutes I have a bigger crisis I'll be sad I used it now! The classic RPG fallacy.

 

I think Serum would be better if it had a duration of 30 seconds and a cooldown of two minutes.

[Wavicle]

42 minutes ago, Lost Deep said:

A little more testing, and I noticed something: I'm not using Serum.

 

Serum is a massive buff... once every eight minutes. Some missions won't last that long. With a duration of two minutes, it can cover several fights. It's often still running the next time I change maps. But then you spend 8 minutes with it not even an option: a detectably long time. The result? I forget I have it. And then when I have it, I'm nervous about using it: it's too precious to use. If in 3 minutes I have a bigger crisis I'll be sad I used it now! The classic RPG fallacy.

 

I think Serum would be better if it had a duration of 30 seconds and a cooldown of two minutes.

slotted for recharge it should come back quick. use it ALL THE TIME!

[Shazbotacus]

Two minutes might cover several fights, but I'm finding that it does indeed gradually go from 100-0% buff effectiveness on an even decline over the course of its duration, including enhancements. So at half duration left, you have half of its buff. It's a novel thing. If I were making powers' stats, I'd have done it to see it in action if for no other reason, but I'm not sure how I feel about it in practice.

I just noticed from my pet combat stats that the damage buff is enhanced by resistance enhancements. Whoa.

Give the mercs serum, order to attack, and the alpha of LRM + two snipes is an immediate and impressive damage alpha strike. They hit super hard while their damage buff is at peak and enhanced.

Edited October 9, 2022 by Shazbotacus

[Shazbotacus]

Turning away from Serum, I love the across-the-board activation time trim and damage buff on the mercs' attacks. Their damage is much higher, spec ops snipe hits like a truck, LRM recharge being halved is great. Even without Serum in effect, their damage is vastly improved, even if their only (meaningful) native resistance is against S/L, that it can now be enhanced means they're nearly halfway bullet proof. But they're vulnerable to just about everything else. The little bit of ranged defense and half that in AoE defense is another help for survivability.

I do lament that the spec ops haven't had their ability to do crowd control or debuffs enhanced in any way, and that the medic has not had its healing improved in any way at all, but the damage enhancements already have done much to help.

I'd consider distributing their resistances a little more evenly to some more common damage types, and uniformly across all soldier types rather than just letting the Commando be the only one with a smidge of "exotic" damage resistance. All soldiers need these resistances. Maybe consider 20% smash, lethal, fire, energy, and cold.

Edited October 9, 2022 by Shazbotacus

[ajlee209]

I wont be able to log into beta until the weekend. Can someone post the damage bonus numbers of Serum?

[Riverdusk]

3 hours ago, ajlee209 said:

I wont be able to log into beta until the weekend. Can someone post the damage bonus numbers of Serum?

 

The base damage bonus is 52.5%.  However, and there is a good chance this is a bug, it appears to be buffed by the slotting of damage resistance enhancements.  So, with say 56% damage resistance slotted into it (about 3 SO's worth), it goes to 81.9%.  And it doesn't appear to just be a text bug issue as it also shows the 81.9% buff under the pet's actual combat attributes.  Typically a buff like that is marked as unenhancable to prevent that issue, but maybe the devs left it that way on purpose this time.

 

The damage bonus is also not affected by player level, it is static.

 

That bonus, like all of them, then decays in a linear fashion during its duration.  So, 1 minute in for example, you only get half that.

[TraumaTrain]

Mercs have good dakka now. Thank you. 

[Zeraphia]

On 10/5/2022 at 4:02 PM, Faultline said:

 

It intentionally doesn't because otherwise people read the patch notes, don't bother testing anything, and argue for pages after pages on performance based on what they read, rather than any actual play testing. While this always happens, last page it was egregious enough that for this Powers Preview patch we're just not going to be giving extreme detail on things. People should test. We want feedback based on how all the changes combined impact performance, rather than people isolating a single change and crying bloody murder while ignoring everything else.

While I do understand this sentiment, and wholeheartedly understand your frustrations, revamping the henchmen who have probably more combined different powers than the actual mastermind set itself, probably needs to have some transparency as to the changes made. Henchmen are especially complex because you cannot see the exact implementations on just stat screens due to upgrades given throughout the set. 

 

I don't believe I commented on the last page where you gave details of whatever change you made. However, if I personally have made you feel like that at any point, my sincerest apologies. 

[Shazbotacus]

As of this posting, an update was pushed to experiment with Serum operating on a shorter duration and cooldown. Naturally this also means the effectiveness of Serum falls more sharply. Having a duration of 60s, it falls to half in only half a minute, and its base recharge of 5m10s, or 250s, gets taken down to 2m5s on enhancements alone.
The base damage resistance was marginally reduced to a flat 30% from the earlier 37.5%, but the damage buff was brought to +75% however it no longer responds to resistance enhancements which I assume was never intended.

It emphasizes the things about Serum even more. It plays like it's like a Build Up with an armor component that gives you a greatly enhanced alpha strike, but also gives soldiers a greater ability to absorb an alpha thanks to resistance, and it fades away even quicker than before but can be back after the next fight or two.

[Clave Dark 5]

4 hours ago, Shazbotacus said:

It emphasizes the things about Serum even more. It plays like it's like a Build Up with an armor component that gives you a greatly enhanced alpha strike, but also gives soldiers a greater ability to absorb an alpha thanks to resistance, and it fades away even quicker than before but can be back after the next fight or two.

That sounds reasonable.  If it was easily perma, might as well have been another Equip Pets power in all but name, which would seem to be unbalancing.

[Shazbotacus]

I suppose that's fair, although equip powers do also recharge much faster to the point you can keep up with rapid casualties. What I have in mind definitively would not.

Edited October 13, 2022 by Shazbotacus