Focused Feedback: Force Fields Revamp

[PoptartsNinja]

Having just played this on Brainstorm, I'm unhappier than I thought I'd be. I feel like the Force Field rework needs more time in the oven.

 

Personal Force Field

Same as on live, same problems as live. This is a terrible Tier 1, it really needs to be changed. It's a selfish escape tool in a set that has just lost the only tool it had to leverage its own survival to help the team recover from a wipe (Force Bubble).

 

Turn it into a "selfish" version of D-Bubble, with 2x the defense (20% for defenders, 15% for other ATs) that only applies to the user. Give it all of D-Bubble's status resistances, then make it mutually exclusive with D-Bubble. That way the user can run the selfish self-buff or the selfless team buff, while also letting new players understand that Forcefield is a very survivable set and that they really can get pretty close to the scrappers and tanks without dying.

 

 

Force Bolt (now Repulsion Bolt)

It's not a repel, it's never been a repel, so why the name change? I like giving Force Field a debuff somewhere and -resist is really good, but Force Bolt is the wrong place for it. I never really took or used Force Bolt but it was a good, usable power. Some people swear by it as a mitigation tool, and for all of Force Field's (too numerous) mitigation tools, Force Bolt was the one most people actually like. Making it a debuff encourages irresponsible, indiscriminate use, which means you may not have it for actual mitigation when you need it.

 

 

Dispersion Bubble

This is a good change, and sorely needed. Thank you for this. Psst. Hey. Rename it "Force Field" so it's more obvious that this is the set's key power.

 

 

Detention Field

Not a field. "Situationally Useful." Does anyone remember Force Field even has a 30 second untouchable? Yup, it's still a 30 second untouchable. Typically used once or maybe twice by players who don't realize what it is they've taken and then respecced out of at the earliest opportunity (or after it gets them kicked out of a PUG). This is a bad egg (pun intended) with a good and noticeable effect. The particle effect would make for a great-looking single target buff, just saying. 😉

 

 

Repulsion Field

I hate to say that I hate this change, but I hate this change.

 

Repulsion and Knockback are two different effects with two different uses. They are not interchangeable. They do not want to live together in the same power where neither of them get to really do what they want.

 

On live, I use Force Bubble to keep Rikti away from the people planting bombs on the Mothership. I use it to push weird spawns closer together or to cram them into corners. I use it to push mobs away from a team wipe to give people a chance to pick themselves up. That's only really possible with Force Bubble as it currently exists because of its sheer size, which this... lacks.

 

This is tiny, it scatters mobs everywhere, it's just Repulsion Field without the 1% max end per knockback end drain. It sacrifices everything that makes Force Bubble a (difficult to use but) very strong power in service of a knockback power nobody takes. Worse, because of the way Repulsion Field's knockback ticks work, slotting it for KB to KD drops the magnitude of the knockback to something like 0.0018. After 4-5 seconds you might score a knockdown on a minion or LT, and since KB to KD disables the repel (the effect I actually want) that means slotting this for KB to KD makes this a power that does absolutely nothing but still costs a lot of endurance anyway.

 

 

Repulsion Bomb (now Force Bomb)

Never did repel, so this name change I like. Activation time change is much needed. Remember how I said Force Bolt was a bad place for a debuff before? This is the opposite. Force Bomb is a power that's always been pretty good while also being a nice Force Feedback carrier. Remove the damage entirely, boost the debuff to like -30% (Defender) -20% (other ATs), keep the stun at 30% (or just let it mag2 minions?), it's all good. The damage was always the weakest component of this power so just turn it into a good, strong AOE knockdown and debuff and I think everyone will be pretty happy to free throw glowing basketballs at people.

 

 

Force Bubble (now Dampening Bubble)

I don't know who this is for. Is it "better" than Force Bubble? Maybe? I guess? I'm one of the people who really likes Force Bubble. I can't really say I noticed the effects of this. Debuff Resistance is one of those things where, if you need it, you don't really want to have to think about applying it. You should be applying it with other effects, getting the Debuff Resistances incidentally, and not realizing that you were needing it at all.

 

I don't think anyone is going to notice whether this is up or down, except in the most extreme content. It doesn't feel like a Tier 9. It doesn't really feel like anything, even the mobs don't notice it.

 

 

 

Just stealing this from my old suggestion thread:

 

 Ablative Shield - Fortitude for Force Field

A single target, high-value Absorption shield (perhaps even % of target max HP based so it benefits tanks and blasters proportionally?) with a 15-30 second duration that also grants the target a hefty amount of defense debuff resistance so it's still useful for the full duration even for people who are already soft-capped. And maybe some other lingering buffs just for flavor, like a modest regen or recovery boost to show that the target is getting a brief reprieve from combat. Then put it on a cooldown on par with fortitude / frostwork so it's not really spammable. Say, 60 seconds base. Maybe 90, depending on whether or not anything else gets bundled in.

 

"It's like a Detention Field, but for your friends!"

 

 

Edit: I know the difference between Live and Brainstorm, I swear! 😄

Edited October 10, 2022 by PoptartsNinja

[brass_eagle]

Alright, after a few days of testing, I’d like to provide my feedback. For context—I am a mostly support player and have played more than a few bubblers over the years. A bubbler was my first character on early live, and the powerset holds a special place in the feels. That being said, it does need some modern updates and glad ya’all are willing to look at it. Here goes:

 

Force Field now, in my view:

The set has three main powers to make it work:

• Deflection Shield
• Insulation Shield
• Dispersion Bubble

 

Other powers in the set have unique but non-necessary effects for the set to function minimally in non-situational… situations.

 

Force (Repulsion) Bolt

 

The additional -20% resistance feels tacked on. I don’t notice it too much myself solo, as I’ve always used Force Bolt to get “shizzle” off me. With the recharge increased that function is much harder to use. Also because Knockback is contentious in certain teams, I’d be forced to use a KB/KD IO to get a valuable, spammable single target debuff. I think more can be done here if there is a goal on making it a core power.

 

Dispersion Bubble

 

Great change – this 15 second leave-the-bubble is exactly what this power needed. A set based on enemy position and knowing when and how to use the situational powers makes this signature power matter more. Especially late game (though I have not tested super late game). We all know how people run around.

 

Repulsion Field

 

My feedback here is partially combined with (previously) Force Bubble.

 

As some here have mentioned, positioning with Force Bubble was great. I still take and use it on all of my bubblers. Part of that is the power is a T9 and I want to take T9s because they are supposed to be capstones. Effective as a blaster nuke nowadays (live).

 

However, it was never used (by me) regularly on teams. Whenever I saw a Force Field defender in the wild, they would not use this power 95%+ of the time if they had it. The problem is/was, I had to sacrifice providing my team with [Dispersion Bubble] and me repositioning baddies. I’m supposed to have Repulsion Field and Force Bolt for that.

 

The combination of these powers is expected, but the implementation is WEIRD. The repel ticks way too low (even though it’s the same as force bubble), because if a baddie is running at me the often get in between the  ticks – then they hit the repel and KB and fly a million miles away – ESPECIALLY any enemy that hovers. I love that I have a power that creates a safer zones SMALLER than my [Dispersion Bubble], and I can use it to position, but the combination here just does not work.

 

The ticks from Force Bubble worked well because of the high radius. Even on live, people would make it inside the bubble. The ticks need to be a bit stronger. It felt like the internal team did not test this well. That doesn’t give me confidence in this.

 

I LOVE that the radius is smaller than Dispersion Bubble. I can still provide the defense to the front line with careful positioning (albeit very careful) while still providing a zone of Repel.

 

Repulsion (Force) Bomb

 

Some of these changes are standard warranted, some of them just plain confuse me—especially the reductions. Was this power ever over-powered? Erm…

 

Along the lines of the (Res all-) debuff, it is welcomed but feels-even-less-than-tacked-on... similar to Force (Repulsion) Bolt. What, about this power, made anyone think that it needed less effectiveness in stun chance and damage in exchange for a fairly standard (15%)(Res all-) debuff. While the damage and stun were not that impressive before, I am not a fan of even having the stun at a 10% chance. In testing I hardly noticed it. It’s a bonus, not something that could be considered helpful or reliable AT ALL. Even in a 16-mob group scenario, you’ll stun 2 non-boss (rounded up) for a few seconds. What? Regardless, I use the power like I did before don’t feel much more effectiveness.

 

What I LOVE is the change to “vectored knockdown”. While I am still confused on how it actually works, I can slot 1 KB enhancement in this and still KB elite bosses on 4**** ITF (yes, I did test this, RIP my solo test char many times).

 

Dampening (Force) Bubble

 

Personally, I LOVE this change on making a great 55 ft “I’m here now power”. I see a lot of people in this thread have hated on it, but I love it!

 

However, I think the power misses on some key points considering the other changes (or lack of changes) to the rest of the set. This is the only part that warrants the language “revamp” and not just “change”.

 

What I love:

• The power adds an “umph” most other sets can’t bring
• It does not aggro enemies when you use it, providing tactical usage
• Wide area was kept, making it easier for those that wish to keep KB/Repel auras on

What I don’t love:

• It feels “tampered down” with certain numbers
• Recharge is unforgiving and not welcoming of how you (or I guess me) would play with this power leveling up, or even on max teams
• If I had the option to pick any T9 from a support set, this is still close to the bottom of the barrel. It’s above Time Bomb and Liquefy (maybe Melt Armor too with it’s recharge), that’s it with a “Revamp”

 

The power simply does not impress. It’s specialty is providing debuff resistance (numbers are fine besides defense) and also debuffing what the enemies do to you (numbers are fine besides defense).

 

The -23.63% Defense for enemies in the field in the patch notes is misleading. It only reduces the defense debuffs done to YOU or TEAMMATEs if the enemy is in the field. Why this number needs to be so so low is beyond me. Especially when you consider the combat modifiers. Defense Debuffs are some of the strongest stacking debuffs enemies have in the game, and at +4 debuff is halved. It doesn’t do much at this number.

 

21.63% resistance to defense debuffs is comically low. Especially considering Fade exists. I’d rather have Fade on a defender for a T9 as, even enhanced, Dampening Bubble cannot reach that level.

 

Considering combat modifiers come into play, some of these number really fall flat next to other T9’s, especially considering the lackluster changes to other powers.

 

The final issue I have is the 90s recharge. I have to ask “what do you intend”? You are trying to balance this power with low numbers like it can be used like Faraday Cage. Do you intend for this to be used every couple of groups (with SOs)? The recharge makes no sense since it’s supposed to be a pivotal power that has minimal impact from my testing.

 

The power needs something more, whether stronger numbers or additional effects.

 

General Discussion

 

Love the set, still will play it. I think most changes are of good heart and are a good step, but lacking direction and also are a bit weak, tacked on, leaving me confused. Detention Field, one of the least used powers in the game was untouched for whatever reason. In any case, I appreciate the effort. It’s better than it was before, but a missed opportunity.

 

This post is my pure testing feedback from solo and play with 1-2 players. I’ve written / edited as I’ve tested. I won’t respond other than corrections as I’m trying to keep distracting discussion down (I’m bad at that), but I will still read.

 

Just before posting I saw the recent updates to the -ticks- of repel in repulsion field-. Hawt. Take that into account.

 

Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk – peaces.

               

 

Edited October 10, 2022 by brass_eagle
purely formating

[Wavicle]

I have to echo others to some extent in that Repulsion Field does seem a little...volatile...is it possible the Repel is actually slightly too strong?

How about lowering the Magnitude of the Repel but increasing the Radius of Knockback?

[Asymptotic]

Concerning PFF, do people find it useful anymore?  If we swapped PFF with Force Bolt as the T1 power, would anyone take it anymore?

 

In live, PFF was really useful for traveling in zones before you had a travel power.  PFF was a lifesaver for Perez Park and the Hollows. Nowadays, when you get your travel power at level 4 and people use DFB and Posi to rush to level 20, this doesn't apply anymore.

 

It can still be used as a 'stealth' power, which allows you to rush to the end of a mission with little danger.  And I've heard that some people use it with Force Bubble to aggro groups then turtle up.  But how common are these use cases?  At the end game, you should be soft-capped for all defenses, making PFF not particularly useful.

 

Rather than combining Repulsion Field and Force Bubble to make room for Dampening Field, perhaps we can get rid of PFF instead.

 

Edited October 11, 2022 by Asymptotic
grammar

[Asymptotic]

Thinking about it, what should be the best order of early FF powers? I think that Force Bolt, Deflection Shield, Insulation Shield, then Personal Force Field would be better.

 

Actually, having Deflection and Insulation shield first would be better, but I think that they should start at T2 to be consistent with other sets.

[Troo]

Is it relevant what other sets can do? Like what Time can do in 8 slots or Traps can do in 4 slots? (Maybe these are outdated)

 

There have been mentions of Faraday Cage, Cold Domination, etc which are just better..

 

Time with 8 slots (credit @oedipus_tex)

 

Traps with just 4 slots (credit @Frostweaver)

 

[Neuronia]

13 hours ago, Asymptotic said:

Concerning PFF, do people find it useful anymore?  If we swapped PFF with Force Bolt as the T1 power, would anyone take it anymore?

 

In live, PFF was really useful for traveling in zones before you had a travel power.  PFF was a lifesaver for Perez Park and the Hollows. Nowadays, when you get your travel power at level 4 and people use DFB and Posi to rush to level 20, this doesn't apply anymore.

 

It can still be used as a 'stealth' power, which allows you to rush to the end of a mission with little danger.  And I've heard that some people use it with Force Bubble to aggro groups then turtle up.  But how common are these use cases?  At the end game, you should be soft-capped for all defenses, making PFF not particularly useful.

 

Rather than combining Repulsion Field and Force Bubble to make room for Dampening Field, perhaps we can get rid of PFF instead.

 

 

I do these all the time.
I don't even know what this set is anymore. Force Bubble's repel was amazing, and I'd just toggle it on to bounce adds so we could focus on a single end boss or whatever. It could also be used semi-surgically to "herd" stuff. I get that Cold is de facto king now with its extra -RES, -Special, etc. But not sure this is the right way to go.
Force Bolt recharge increase :s. Perma-KB on individual mobs is super sweet.

Really wish we could make Force Buble or stuff "modular" like Dual Pistol.
1)Repel bubble
2)+Res/-Res bubble

3)+ToHit+Def/-ToHit-Def bubble

Probably too much work though.

 

[Troo]

On 10/4/2022 at 2:38 PM, The Curator said:

Force Bolt (now Repulsion Bolt)

• Now applies -20% (Defender Values) Resistance to all damage for 30s.
• Recharge increased to 10s.

 

Without explanation it doesn't seem to make sense as is the case with a number of the proposed changes.

 

250% decrease in availability of a defensive power is baffling.

In exchange for making it a meh offensive power with no additional knocks, no additional defense, no additional damage?

 

A corruptor is a getting single target -15% res..

IOs can provide better debuffing at a 3.5ppm rate to multiple targets.

 

Its a quick control 'get off me' & 'get off my friend' power. If something was added without taking away more than is given who could complain. This just isn't the case.

 

Here's an old quote on Force Bolt

"Force Bolt: The first 6-slotted power, and from 1-25, easily the most used power. Through enhancement, it becomes the chain-gun. Juggle bosses out of the fight, blast melee opponents off your friends, or just plain unload to cause some chaos and knockback damage mitigation. The use tappers off a bit after repulsion field comes into play, but it remains one of the core powers from 1-50."

 

 

[ShogunGunshow]

On 10/10/2022 at 7:30 AM, Rand0lk said:

Dunno if it's already on book, but Sudden Acceleration KBTKD in Repulsion Field completely kills not only repel and knockback, but also knockdown. It does...nothing.

Also encountering the same issue. Not sure if I need to reslot the enhancement or something, but the character I transferred over from Virtue activates it, stands in a crowd, and nothing is affected or even aggros at all. 

[WindDemon21]

22 hours ago, Wavicle said:

I have to echo others to some extent in that Repulsion Field does seem a little...volatile...is it possible the Repel is actually slightly too strong?

How about lowering the Magnitude of the Repel but increasing the Radius of Knockback?

Definitely not. One of the best parts about repulsion field is it's ability to keep them away from you, without being too wide that you have to be super careful about how you are entering the mob and flinging them where you don't want them. And if you kb-kd it, the proccing isn't so great anyway to warrant that.

 

What it does need to alleviate both, is just grant it a 25ft (same as dispersion) slow radius with a good bit of slow. That way, they aren't getting to you as fast, and when they do they get flung.

 

Pff, still kinda really does need changed, or at least tweaked. Bar none it needs it's cast time reduced to like .5s. But I wouldn't be against it changing 100% altogether. Same goes for detention field. I gather it might have the slightest use for like, what two incarnate tfs? But other than that the power has always been crud. It should be swapped to a hold at least, or ditched altogether for the big hami-like bubble that I suggested, which is also kinda what they're trying to make force bubble. Instead, swap detention field for the location debuff of -damage/-resist/-speed/-rech/-regen (if not added to force bolt), basically our version of the hami goo.

 

Regarding PFF, again, reduce the cast time, but maybe make it a low end toggle that works like stealth, where if you don't attack for x amount of time, you get re-invincibled.

 

And force bolt, it's ok, but the knockback should still be changed to knockdown. Some might like it, but TOO much of a vast majority of us hate the power with it's knockback, especially if trying to use it for the debuff now, and NEEDING to put a kd-kb in it gets super annoying for it's base use). It would also make sense to have some -regen added to it for AVs as well if it's not added to the new "hami bubble" location power suggested above.

 

Force bubble, again, please keep it as is, maybe add a slow aura to it's radius,

 

Dispersion bubble, good change, but adding proccing absorb would REALLY go far to boost the power especially if that absorb can linger it's 15 seconds when people exit it)

[gameboy1234]

18 minutes ago, WindDemon21 said:

Pff, still kinda really does need changed, or at least tweaked. Bar none it needs it's cast time reduced to like .5s. But I wouldn't be against it changing 100% altogether. Same goes for detention field.

 

Since some folks seem to like these, I wonder if PFF and DT are good candidates for getting the "two powers in one" treatment.  PFF could work like now, or be a personal Deflection Shield+Insulation Field, your choice.  Just adds a smaller amount of Def to you personally without the Affecting Only Self.  Using one power locks out the other, and both are required to recharge before either can be used.

 

Same with Detention Field.  One power works like it does now (although perhaps make it a toggle, so we can turn it off), one is just an ordinary hold with a much smaller magnitude.  An AoE hold even with just Mag 1 would be pretty nice.  I'd like to have the choice to either put a boss or his minions in detention. Again both of these powers lock the other out and both have to recharge before the other can be used.

 

To me those feel like easy fixes, although I'm not the one who has to create and test it.

[Wavicle]

My understanding is that doing the two choices on Sentinel SR was such a hassle that they don’t want to do it again.

[WindDemon21]

1 minute ago, gameboy1234 said:

 

Since some folks seem to like these, I wonder if PFF and DT are good candidates for getting the "two powers in one" treatment.  PFF could work like now, or be a personal Deflection Shield+Insulation Field, your choice.  Just adds a smaller amount of Def to you personally without the Affecting Only Self.  Using one power locks out the other, and both are required to recharge before either can be used.

 

Same with Detention Field.  One power works like it does now (although perhaps make it a toggle, so we can turn it off), one is just an ordinary hold with a much smaller magnitude.  An AoE hold even with just Mag 1 would be pretty nice.  I'd like to have the choice to either put a boss or his minions in detention. Again both of these powers lock the other out and both have to recharge before the other can be used.

 

To me those feel like easy fixes, although I'm not the one who has to create and test it.

I'd be all for that, they just seem to be really withholding when it comes to "multi-selection" options. Actually isn't PB on sents the only case for this? I'd honestly like to see this be the case for all knockback powers in the game having instead an knockdown version you can choose and not having to waste a slot on a kb-kd.

[gameboy1234]

4 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

My understanding is that doing the two choices on Sentinel SR was such a hassle that they don’t want to do it again.

 

Well, that itself is a hassle.  I wonder what's painful about that particular technique that makes HC want to avoid it.

[MagicalAct]

I'm sorry but I'm not a fan of these changes at all. I understand people saying that dispersion field is the iconic power of the set, but maneuvering mobs is a hallmark of the set and people using force bubble well is what got me into the set in the first place, after never being interested in it on live.

 

I was excited to see Force Field get some love but after playing with it on beta I'm not playing the set again if it releases with these changes. I almost never took force bolt, so those changes don't bother me as much. I appreciate adding -res to try and give it something.

Repulsion Field: Terrible power, radius is too small, knockback is unpredictable. I like the end drain removal but will gladly take it back to have this power reverted to it's previous form. I don't do the high end content that these changes may be for, but it was perfectly serviceable on live. You could pin bosses against walls, stand next to your blaster to protect them, or slot KB/KD and stand in the mobs if your build could handle it. 

Force Bubble/Dampening Bubble: Hate this change the most. Force Bubble isn't just a troll power, if done correctly it's one of the best mob placement tools in the game. You can trap entire mobs in the corner, move mobs into each other and a bunch of other things. Making it a weird Faraday Cage, doesn't even make it feel like Force Field to me anymore playstyle wise.

 

[PoptartsNinja]

25 minutes ago, MagicalAct said:

I was excited to see Force Field get some love but after playing with it on beta I'm not playing the set again if it releases with these changes.

 

 

I know how you feel, it's still "the" iconic Defender set for me.

 

Force Bubble and Repulsion Field (live) are two different powers with two different use cases. Force Bubble is a hugely powerful tool for repositioning enemy mobs or to let teams deal with multiple surprise ambushes or even buy them a few moments of safety to recover from a wipe or near-wipe. Repulsion Field is... ok, admittedly finding even an edge case for Repulsion Field is really difficult. Toggle it on for a few seconds if an ambush spawns literally on top of you? Soloing but too lazy to use force bolt? Playing with falling leaves in a park?

 

Removing a very powerful, unique, set-defining tool to slightly enhance a much worse PBAOE knockback aura that very few people took (because it's just hard to find any excuse to use Repulsion Field) and that few people take after the change (for exactly the same reasons they don't take it now) is... just disappointing.

Edited October 12, 2022 by PoptartsNinja

[PeregrineFalcon]

I just logged off of the test server. This is my focused feedback.

 

Just as a note, I had multiple level 50 FF MMs and level 50 FF Defenders on the retail servers. On the Homecoming servers I have multiple FF MMs and FF Defenders as well.

 

For testing I made a Bots/FF MM at level 50. All SOs, and a couple of Unique IOs. Did some street sweeping on My Island. And a couple of scanner missions.

• Repulsion Bolt - Like a lot of people I wasn't happy about the increase to the recharge time because my primary use for this power was to get people out of my face. However, since I can now use Repulsion Field 24/7, without it trying to eat my entire endurance bar, I found that it was no longer necessary to use it this way and I could use it mostly for its damage debuff.
• Dampening Bubble - Unlike Force Bubble, Dampening Bubble is very hard to see. I finally had to turn it on, at night, without Dispersion Bubble on, in order to see it. I don't know why that is. I didn't modify the color of the power in any way. I never had any problem seeing Force Bubble, even with Dispersion Bubble on and other effects from combat. Also, because it's stationary it's hard to use it properly. I'd recommend keeping it centered on the MM during its duration for ease of use.
• Personal Force Field - Same old power that's still only useful for travel or running off and leaving the rest of your team to die. I'd recommend changing this to an "Oh S**t!!" power by removing the "Only Affecting Self", leaving the defense and damage resistance the same, making it last only 60 seconds, and giving it the same recharge and immunity to recharge buffs as Strength of Will.

Overall I really like the change to Repulsion Field. I didn't notice any effect from the damage debuffs in Repulsion Bolt and Repulsion Bomb, but maybe I would have had I fought an AV. I don't know.

 

I'm still on the fence about Dampening Bubble. I'm one of the few people who actually liked and used Force Bubble though. And I wasn't able to notice any effect from its debuff protection. Whereas I was able to notice and effectively use Force Bubble for area denial. I admit though that it was only useful in certain circumstances and the debuffs and protection from debuffs may be exactly what FF needs.

[gameboy1234]

Just kinda of thinking out loud, I also found Dampening Field to be a bit of a let down, esp. for a Tier 9 power.  Its effects (and sfx!) where difficult to see. To make this feel like a real Tier 9, perhaps make this much more powerful, and greatly increase its recharge time as well.  Greatly increase the Defense Debuff protection so that suddenly your own buffs will be most effective, increase the radius and add the Absorb that everyone has been asking for (you could replace the Regeneration buff).  The other aspects can stay the same, the stationary bit is OK.  Increase the recharge to (pulls number out of the air) 5 minutes, you'd have something that feels like a Tier 9 rather than as some folks are saying feeling like a clone of Faraday Cage.

 

Overall I like the changes, they just feel a bit weak in places.  It's good to see HC trying to improve some of the oldest powersets (some really need it) and overall the changes to FF are a great addition.

[twozerofoxtrot]

I've noticed folks wondering why PFF and Detention Field have been left untouched, just wanted to offer some thoughts on why that might be, and hopefully improve your play with FF as a set.

 

PFF

So off the bat, changing PFF in FF necessitates a conversation about changing it in Epic Pools as well. That might be outside the scope of what the Devs are trying to do here, and so leaving it as is saves bandwidth for them to tinker with just this kit.

 

Besides, it's a vital tool for speeding and soloing certain missions. Understandable if you see this as a failsafe option, but besides using it to cruise to the objective, you can also use it to cleanly escort non-combat NPCs back out. Turn off movement powers, turn on PFF, and walk right to the exit with everything trying and failing to hurt you. Just don't lose your hostage.

 

Detention Field

This is among a small selection of powers that can really help during more challenging parts of the game. There are just times when phasing an NPC is better than killing it. Examples include (but aren't limited to):

- Phasing Brickernauts during their countdown so they harmlessly kill themselves. 

- Phasing Tower(s) during MLTF so Lord Recluse doesn't roflstomp you tank; or during high performance runs to get top speed times.

 

It's a very niche power that more likely than not won't be in your main build selection, but has high utility in specific builds used for certain tasks forces.

 

And that's okay, right? We get 3 builds at 50, and we shouldn't want to feel like we need to take and use every power from a set in a general purpose environment. But PFF and Detention Field have their uses, and are used to great effect when they are needed.

[PoptartsNinja]

10 hours ago, twozerofoxtrot said:

PFF

So off the bat, changing PFF in FF necessitates a conversation about changing it in Epic Pools as well.

I don't necessarily think that's true. Ancillaries are the right place for an escape power and come at the level range where an escape power could be genuinely helpful to the ATs that get access to it. The PFF in the Ancillaries could have a name change to Emergency Force Field to make its intended use clearer and be left unchanged.

 

I feel a Tier 1 power should give you an idea what the set is capable of. Storm gets Gale, Time and Cold get a hefty debuff slows, Traps and Trick Arrows get utility immobs, and Force Field gets... a situational escape tool that primarily enables ghosting combat. In that regard, PFF may very well be the outright worst Tier 1 because it directly prevents new or inexperienced users from participating in combat.

 

Making it a personal defense shield that encourages new bubblers to play closer to their scrappers/tanks makes a fair amount of sense. There are a lot of options they could take with PFF. Things like:
- A soloing toggle that's mutually exclusive with D-Bubble

- A low-defense auto power that gives a little extra safety when the toggles drop

- A personal absorb shield that builds up over time

- A defense that scales based on current HP so at high health it provides marginal benefit but at low health it buys you a few extra seconds for Force Bolt to recharge.

 

There's a lot that could be done that would give PFF more general utility without breaking the power curve, it's not like Force Field can't casually soft cap pretty much every defense with just D-Bubble and pool powers alone. Situational powers are nice. 'Dump' powers that you don't have to take are nice. But the low-tier powers should still probably be the ones people should want to try out even if you don't wind up keeping them in your final build for whatever reason.

 

 

10 hours ago, twozerofoxtrot said:

Detention Field

It's a very niche power that more likely than not won't be in your main build selection, but has high utility in specific builds used for certain tasks forces.

In that regard, it's the exact same as Force Bubble. Extremely powerful in the right situation. I personally feel Force Bubble has more general utility for the non-extreme portions of the game and I'm sorry you don't feel the same way. It's great that Detention Field has use cases for speedrunning hard mode content. I'm glad you find it to be useful.

 

It would be even more useful if it was a 30 second timed toggle (like the Hybrid Incarnates) so you could choose to turn it off before the end of its normal 30 second duration. That change alone would make it a lot more useful for standard team play for say, shutting down Tsoo Sorcerers, eliminating a missed sapper, or even preventing a Master Illusionist from summoning pets until the team's ready for them if you get two in the same spawn.

 

Detention Field existing isn't really a problem. I don't currently feel it's a good power but it could be improved, it could be made less frustrating for teammates who aren't expecting the single rarest control type in the game and don't want to wait around for 30 seconds for it to wear off when it takes 5-15 seconds for the average 8-man PUG to clear most spawns.

 

 

 

I just really like Force Bubble, and not just because it lets you yeet Level 1 Hellions so hard the server just deletes them (that's just an added bonus). I am genuinely upset that we're losing the specific niche utility it provided as there is no other power in the game that provides that same niche utility. I wish I at least knew the rationale behind killing it in favor of the least useful power in Force Field's arsenal (Repulsion Field). Is it too disruptive in Rikti Raids? Is it the least-used toggle power in the game (I'd find that hard to believe when Whirlwind exists)? Is it the least chosen power in the set (and if so, are they taking into account that it's a Tier 9 and is it still the least taken power if you only look at level 50 characters)? Do they just dislike it the way I personally dislike Repulsion Field?

 

They made Repulsion Field better! The people who really enjoy knockdowns will enjoy the sheer chaos the new Repulsion Field can sew. I appreciate that! But it's not Force Bubble, Force Bubble had entirely different use cases which people have already explained.

 

Heck, speaking of improving existing powers: what if Force Bubble was a 25 foot repel with a 26-55 foot tractor so it simultaneously tries to keep things from getting too close while also not letting them get too far away? Force Bubble was as close as the OG Devs could get to programming a 'force wall' type power. They couldn't really make it a temporary impassable physics object (imagine if that broke and literally trapped players forever?) so... it was made a big ol' repel field. But force works both ways, what if it was a dual mode power so it could be either a repel or a tractor? They could make the tractor relatively weak or decrease the tick frequency and I imagine Rikti Raids would still love it even if it only gently encouraged everything to get off the ramps and move closer to the middle of the bowl.

 

There are things that could be done to improve strong but niche powers and/or strong but potentially problematic powers. Detention Field has just as much potential to be disruptive on a Rikti Raid as Force Bubble, I just don't think anyone who's used one would ever intentionally hit a pylon with a 30 second Untouchable.

 

 

It's why I'm saying I hope they give Force Field a little more development time. I'm glad they're looking at it, it's a set that does need some love and attention, especially when compared to more modern sets. There are a lot of things they could do to improve the set that could give the niche powers a little more general utility. The debuff in Force Bomb is a great touch but I already enjoyed lobbing knockdown basketballs for the sweet Force Feedback procs, I love what they've done with D-Bubble, it's a minor improvement that takes a 5-star power and makes it even better in a way I didn't even know the game was capable of.

 

I just wish there was a way to provide numbers as to how losing Force Bubble will impact my play, but I can't. It's not a power that generates numbers, it's a power that prevents numbers from being generated at all. Turn on Force Bubble and see if you can't escort a hostage out of a mission just as easily as if you'd used PFF. All I can do is say "I really like this power, and these are the reasons why. I'm sorry you (and this is a general 'you' not addressing anyone specifically) don't seem to like it as much as I do, and I do understand that it's a niche power that's difficult to use well. Are you really sure it needs to go away?"

Edited October 12, 2022 by PoptartsNinja

[twozerofoxtrot]

18 minutes ago, PoptartsNinja said:

Force Field gets... a situational escape tool that, in your own words, encourages them to not engage with the game's content. 

 

Those were not my words.

 

Finding a way to complete missions faster and get rewards quicker is the opposite of not engaging. 

 

No issue with your opinions but do not distort mine to butress them.

 

 

18 minutes ago, PoptartsNinja said:

I personally feel Force Bubble has more general utility for the non-extreme portions of the game and I'm sorry you don't feel the same way.

 

Where exactly in my general-purpose, trying-to-be-helpful post did you see me express an opinion about Force Bubble?

 

 

Edited October 12, 2022 by twozerofoxtrot

[Captain Powerhouse]

Hey guys, don't have much time to address everything that has come up but want to quickly address a few recruiting points quickly:

 

Repulsion Field will have its radius increased for 25ft (for repel) along with faster pulse (not sure if that was patched already) should result in very rarely things getting so close they get knocked back unless they have repel protection or are *very* fast. This wont make it as easy to push things around in a large map as some might had grown used to, but I feel its a good middle point of making it usable for more players in more places.

 

Repulsion Bolt recharge will be going back down to 4s

 

Detention Field was touched but the change did not pass internal testing. We still plan to do something about it in the future.

 

Personal Force Field has not been touched due to it being somewhat popular, but we still brainstorming on this power while trying to retain its utility around.

[Heatstroke]

I'm trying to figure out the new FF but in all honestly it leaves me very confused and left wanting. Ill try again after the next update but running a Bots/FF with these new mechanics is making learn a new playstyle and I think that is affecting my expectations. 

 

Nothing feels very force field to me. When I think Force Field I think about an unbreakable wall that protects people.  Why not add some sort of Absorb to one of the defensive powers. 

 

Here are some thoughts I have had after testing the new powers and will give it a whirl again once these new changes get added to Beta. Right now it feels " broken " somehow. I'm not much of a data guy. I'm more of a play by feel guy and something just doesn't FEEL right about this new Force Field. It could be I'm used to the old way, but that hasn't effected me when other changes are made. Here are some things I have thought of. 

Detention Field-   Pretty much a power that the majority of the community skips. You could keep the same THEME of Detention by making it a Field that actually uses Forces that have a chance to HOLD enemies. This could work the same way that Distortion Field for Time control works. You could add effects of -res, slow, -recharge, or some combination thereof with a chance to hold (i.e. DETAIN) foes. The chance to hold should be scaling IMO minions should have the best chance to be held. Bosses the least or it need multiple applications or pulses. You keep the Detention Idea.. but the affect is much better.. More useable and makes more sense.

 

Repulsion Bomb- Why not make this power work more like Ice Slick, Bonfire or Earthquake? Its a patch on the ground that Repulses people trying to run past it? Add a -KB IO and it turns it into a knockDOWN powers (or just make it Knockdown from the get go). It could be slotted for damage like Ice Slick/Bonfire. This will also help make up for what some people lost in Force Bubble to some degree. Add a little -slow, -res (10-15%). 

 

Personal Force Field- This is REAL simple for me. Make it a personal Absorption Bubble. Make it Force Fields version of  Ablative Carapace.  You increase survivability and you can still attack. 

 

This IMO would help FF a lot and make you feel less like your just here to bubble people and throw a Force Bolt every now and then. Your actually affecting the battle field. Your protecting your team in more than ONE way.. 

Edited October 12, 2022 by Heatstroke

[Laenan]

5 hours ago, Captain Powerhouse said:

Personal Force Field has not been touched due to it being somewhat popular, but we still brainstorming on this power while trying to retain its utility around.

Maybe this is a silly question, but what’s the metric on popularity? Use or the power being taken? I ask because it’s a forced choice on Corruptors and Controllers, and it felt like the far better option of first pick (to me) in the blaster epic pool. It’s also the ultimate LOTG mule power because it doesn’t really need any slotting because it’s such an extreme power, and it needs no slots so it’s just well suited for mule-life. I’m guessing the LOTG proc is a good chunk of the reason high end builds or even builds in general love it. 
 

I also wonder how many of the FF secondary players still take it if the power availability changes make it to live and makes the t1 skippable? Hard to say I guess.

 

There’s a variety of great options listed above for it. I think a passive +defense power, a low endurance “self-insulation/deflection shield” at some lower than those powers’ strength or the ticking absorb on self with some small defense increase would be very well received, even if we lose some of that low-level escort mission and extreme self-protection. 
 

Someone above mentioned old force bubble being great for escorts and if that’s the case, maybe it’s okay for PFF to have its utility changed.

 

(no sass or sarcasm intended with this post, just to be clear 🙂 )

Edited October 12, 2022 by Laenan

[Troo]

@Captain Powerhouse thanks for the update.

 

 

Edited October 13, 2022 by Troo
geez spellz