I don't like the Elite Bosses added to trick-or-treating

[ScarySai]

9 minutes ago, ivanhedgehog said:

A lot of people dont have built IO set builds at 25. A lot use so's until end game.

And again, if you're having issues, it's a build/skill issue.

[PeregrineFalcon]

So I'm on MY ISLAND right now treat-or-treating, and fighting off a zombie invasion, with a newly-rolled Thugs/Sonic MM that's level 24 and has NO enhancements slotted.

 

EB's are dying within seconds. Tell me again how it's a huge increase in difficulty! 

[ivanhedgehog]

4 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

So I'm on MY ISLAND right now treat-or-treating, and fighting off a zombie invasion, with a newly-rolled Thugs/Sonic MM that's level 24 and has NO enhancements slotted.

 

EB's are dying within seconds. Tell me again how it's a huge increase in difficulty! 

Didnt they say they didnt spawn till 25?

[Ruin Mage]

Yes, they don't spawn till 25.

Peregrine might be pulling your leg there a little or leaving out details. Like how he's part of a ToT league. (^:

[Luminara]

I decided to take my Grav/TA controller on a round of ToTing this morning.  That's something I'd been avoiding, as TA's weakness is ambushes and these are, in essence, triggered ambushes.  Ambushes you can prepare for, but still ambushes.  I expected that the first EB that spawned would flatten her in second, especially since my standard combat approach is to Wormhole everything to me, from a "safe" distance.

 

The opening seconds were when I thought I'd encounter "make or break" situations, but it wasn't a problem.  All of the EBs are susceptible to controls.  The mummy takes the most stacking to lock down, but once it's done, there's no coming back.  I didn't even have to look at Mr. Darkity Dark's Dark Servant.  OSA, Fissure and Cross Punch kept it bouncing around and melted it like chocolate in a frying pan while I focused on the big guy.  Those are the two which have proven to be the most trouble on my other characters.  The other three were just target dummies.

 

I'll test my Ill/TA and TA/Dark next.  Those are now the ones with which I think I'm most likely to run into trouble.

[Bionic_Flea]

TA has problems with ambushes?  You can plant an oil slick and glue arrow in anticipation for their arrival and then set them on fire . . .

[Luminara]

20 minutes ago, Bionic_Flea said:

TA has problems with ambushes?  You can plant an oil slick and glue arrow in anticipation for their arrival and then set them on fire . . .

 

TA is, with the exception of EMP Arrow, entirely active mitigation.  It's all clicks.  No buff toggles, no click buffs, no PBAoE debuff/damage toggles.  Ambushes are the counter to that, they can't be affected until they're present and in range.

 

If you know they're coming, when they're coming, where they're coming from, and OSA isn't recharging, yeah, that works.  The quickest recharge time I've managed with OSA is 39.1s, though, and when I use it, it's not behind me, it's in front of me.  Bit difficult to drop OSA in two places at once, or drop it when it has 20s of recharge time remaining.

 

And for Glue to be used to counter ambushes, again, you have to know they're coming, and know where they're coming from.

 

Take that Vigilante morality mission which sends you after Ghost Widow, for example.  Several of the ambushes in that mission spawn within tens of feet of your character, but they don't spawn from a specific point, so setting up a counter is flipping a coin and hoping that you win the toss.  In the Cloud of Odorous Smoke tip mission, you might get lucky and have the Nictus spawn outside of the room with the seed carrier, potentially forcing them to cross a Glue patch to reach you, or you might have them spawn in the room, and there's no fixed point where that happens.

 

Plus, if you're using /powexec_location target, there's no guarantee that either Glue or OSA will activate at all (might get Out of Range messages, even if they're in melee range), or that either will be effective (can spawn under the map, and when that happens, their effects aren't always applied to foes in the sphere).

 

I pointed this out when the TA revamp was in beta.  Ambushes are TA's weakness.  Active mitigation requires activity, and activity requires targets, locations, strategic knowledge of enemy capabilities, line of approach, target vectors.  In the past, TA had so many weaknesses that, while being ambushed was obviously one of them, the requirement to lean heavily on controls and multiple debuffs in every fight overshadowed its vulnerability to ambushes.  The revamp improved TA's performance admirably, but in doing so, highlighted ambushes as its "hole".

 

Every set has a "hole" of some kind.  For instance, Rad, as powerful as it is, can be completely shut down with a single mez disabling the toggles and preventing the use of its heal.  TA is less vulnerable to mez, but if you don't know when an attack is going to occur, or where it might come from, there's really not much you can do about it, except wait and hope you're not already engaged in combat and incapable of responding instantly.  And, for whatever it might be worth, I approve of that.  Everything should be countered by something.  Ambushes counter TA.

 

Obviously, ToTing is a different situation, but Slows don't do anything to prevent the Reaper from Fearing you (hm... have to take my Dark/Martial dominator back for another pass, see if i can Fear the Reaper), or the vampire from summoning his ambulatory Hershey bar, or the mummy from debuffing you, or the crone from toggling on Hurricane, et cetera.  OSA is of absolutely no benefit with these EBs if one is "saving" it, it has to be used on every door because the spawns aren't predictable, which means you're waiting for it to recharge on most doors, slowing your progress considerably out of a desire to progress safely.  I take the more reckless approach of knocking first, then using OSA if it's not trash or a treat.  I'm just not going to wait ~20-30 seconds between doors.

 

[Snarky]

15 hours ago, Shadeknight said:

The general populace is not putting IO sets at 25. I don't recall the last time I saw set bonuses on someone below 50.

If you think you need IOs to take on EBs, you may be playing poorly. Harsh, but that's my take away.

You can also face EBs in the i24 Skulls arc and spread throughout. Can't beat those?

Skill issue.

I start slotting I/Os as soon as I can.  That means 7 for Panacea, My Invul Brutes get 4 sets of Reactives at 12, The ATOs slap in fast.  Yeah, I use nasty little SOs until 7-15 in some slots.  Then on to the gold baby!  I have an SG mate that just uses SOs, sometimes on 50s.  Everyone knows somebody that is mentally unstable though, right?  Am I right or what?  Right?  RIGHT?

[Bionic_Flea]

46 minutes ago, Luminara said:

 

DON'T . . . Fear the Reaper

 

[Snarky]

16 hours ago, Shadeknight said:

The general populace is not putting IO sets at 25. I don't recall the last time I saw set bonuses on someone below 50.

If you think you need IOs to take on EBs, you may be playing poorly. Harsh, but that's my take away.

You can also face EBs in the i24 Skulls arc and spread throughout. Can't beat those?

Skill issue.

depends on AT and level.  I still remember an old Posi where all my teammates quit over the very long TF.  I tried to solo the EB at the end.  Damn.  Just Damn.

[Luminara]

TA/Dark defender holds up well against the EBs.  Mummy can't be Immobilized, but Slows keep it out of arm's reach.  Still a pain to whittle down.  Werewolf is resistant to Immobilization, but I can stack enough to lock it down.  Crone didn't even attack, just floated there, Immobilized, while I tore her apart.  Reaper's not a threat.  Haven't gotten a vamp to spawn, but since I'm at range, and loaded with AoE, his pet won't help him, and he's nothing without his pet.

 

Not as fast as Grav/TA, no big attacks, no Containment, and a lot more running around to avoid the mummy's melee attacks, but these EBs aren't proving to be troublesome.

 

I'll do Ill/TA this evening.  That's my squishiest squishy, 100% dependent on PA to keep the damage off of her, so if there's going to be a stopping point, it should show up with that.

[MistressOhm]

I haven't had too much trouble staying upright with a Storm/Elec 'fender.  When an EB spawns, plant Snow Storm on them (negates the Fly on three of them and slows all of them down), debuff ToHit with Hurricane, and pop Thunderstorm and Freezing Rain to ... divert their priorities from all-out attacks to "get away".   

 

The Stormie's problem is, she can't consistently damage them enough, and when she successfully locks them out of attacking at all (either through Elec end drain, fear, or repel/knock) for a full minute, they will despawn 20 seconds later if not sooner due to the ToT behavior coding (no attack for > 60 seconds = attack ends, 20 seconds to find a door and escape OR vanish).   

 

My Elec/Elec blaster namesake?  EB's love to play with her.  Facedown in the street 9 out of 10 EB encounters, and the 10th is because I did the "gotta go!" scoot to the nearest police drone.  I have higher damage and almost as much end drain as the Stormie, but I just can't avoid the initial alpha strike (or give them incentive to not attack) right out of the door.

 

THAT SAID, I'm sure there are well-funded players with the perfect EB-kiler Elec/Elec builds at Level 25.  I'm not one of them.  

[Glacier Peak]

What I like to do is use my farmer as an alt, put Burn on auto, then use my ToTer to click doors. If things come out that are scary, I go to the Burn patch and find safety. 

 

Another useful trick is to start a flashback mission or AE mission to prevent the farmer alt from auto logging.

 

Edit: Pick up the Double XP temp power and the EBs give... times 10 XP!!!

Edited October 15, 2022 by Glacier Peak

[roleki]

3 hours ago, Luminara said:

I'll do Ill/TA this evening.  That's my squishiest squishy, 100% dependent on PA to keep the damage off of her, so if there's going to be a stopping point, it should show up with that.

 

If you're packing a confuse, you should have no trouble with the EBs.  They're not bad, once they're attacking anyone but you.

 

Oddly enough, it's my melee characters that seem to have trouble with the Halloween EBs.  

 

Nerf Terrorize!

[Uun]

3 hours ago, Luminara said:

I'll do Ill/TA this evening.  That's my squishiest squishy, 100% dependent on PA to keep the damage off of her, so if there's going to be a stopping point, it should show up with that.

Flash Arrow should neuter their ability to hit you.

[Luminara]

Well, PA taunts override the click aggro, and the mummy went down so fast that I was surprised.  That's my last real "weak" character.

Edited October 16, 2022 by Luminara

[ScarySai]

18 minutes ago, Luminara said:

Well, PA taunts override the click aggro, and the mummy went down so fast that I was surprised.  That's my last real "weak" character.

 

Ta's single target -res is pretty decent, makes sense that illusion would destroy the ebs with it.

Edited October 16, 2022 by ScarySai

[Tachstar]

My level 38 FF/BR defender knocked on a door and was summarily clobbered by a puff of smoke with red eyes.

 

My incarnated electric/mc blaster knocked on a bunch of doors in PI and is one spectral werewolf away from having all the badges for those new guys. The mummy dude is the toughest for him -- sometimes it hangs on to that last sliver of, uh, unlife? quite stubbornly. But it's just a matter of time, and meanwhile Mr Mummy's blue bar is, well, not very blue.

 

Haven't tried them with anything else yet. I can only take so much ToTing before my eyes glaze over. Not in a fun way.

[Snarky]

I played a bit this weekend.  The one thing that struck me?   EVERYONE was playing on hyper speed run mode.  If you take 3 min to get to mission objectives (from time mission is posted to team) you may as well just fight mobs at the door.  In the mission or out would not matter much.  
 

Pretty much no thanks for me.  I am mostly done.  I will putz around on some solo stuff and run some content with my SG friends.  
 

I have no interest in racing through buildings like my meth dealer is at the end of it with free product.  Never why I played the game.  
 

This is what people want. That is okay. I also think most people (not all but a lot) do actually want EBs in the ToT event.  Probably more if they could crank it to eleven.  
 

I am an old vampire.  Sigh.  Time to go write.  I am so old I prefer to do that on pen and paper even.  But I do make allowances for possibly needing revisions and maybe sending to an editor so it goes on a comp.  Sigh.  So dam old

[Tachstar]

Zombies crashed my ToTing! I was all by myself in a little corner of PI so there were no gratuitous BAMs! and ZLONKs! and BIFFs! splattered across the screen, and I could, like, actually see stuff. And lo! One of the zombies had a traffic cone on its head. Is this something new? Or something one is only likely to see when (reverb) alone in the dark (/reverb)? I don't recall ever seeing such a thing before. Neither do I recall what I had for lunch yesterday... but that's beside the point. The point being... ahhh... pointy?

 

 

Say! Could we have traffic cones for hats, too? So fashionable!

 

[Marine X]

8 hours ago, Snarky said:

I also think most people (not all but a lot) do actually want EBs in the ToT event

I agree, it just seems that the same issue that impacts a lot of this game is amplified here. Not every Archetype/Build is going to be able to SOLO every Elite Boss that they come upon.

The fact that there are Badges and Rewards attached to these that are sought after makes it a more frustrating for those players but reducing the difficulty to a lower level would not justify the Rewards they give. The best solution is if there was a way to scale TOT based on the Games built in Difficulty settings, then the appearance of Bosses/Elite Bosses would be in the hands of the players themselves, or if on a team the team leader's settings.

[Snarky]

42 minutes ago, Marine X said:

I agree, it just seems that the same issue that impacts a lot of this game is amplified here. Not every Archetype/Build is going to be able to SOLO every Elite Boss that they come upon.

The fact that there are Badges and Rewards attached to these that are sought after makes it a more frustrating for those players but reducing the difficulty to a lower level would not justify the Rewards they give. The best solution is if there was a way to scale TOT based on the Games built in Difficulty settings, then the appearance of Bosses/Elite Bosses would be in the hands of the players themselves, or if on a team the team leader's settings.

There is a note at the beginning of the thread that these EBs are only supposed to trigger for teams.  They were unable to complete that coding in time for the event.  It is on the schedule for next year

 

 

Edited October 16, 2022 by Snarky

[Ukase]

On 10/12/2022 at 8:44 PM, MrSnottyPants said:

Not when solo.  Due to two things:  1) massive hits and 2) endurance drain.  Some alts do okay, but others have prolonged fights where a pair of lucky hits flatten them.  This use to be something you could casually solo with a spare 10 minutes.

 

I'd be okay if they were normal elite bosses.  But getting the mummy, getting the wasting disease, and getting the witch with endurance draining zaps next... frustrating.

 

In the past, never fled - but now some alts pretty much have to.  And these EBs sometimes chase you across the map...

I can see where it gets frustrating. But, while I'm someone who can sympathize with a solo player's issues, the ToT seems to be going on non-stop via a league in both Peregrine Island and Kallista Wharf. You can join a league for the 10 minutes you have and get all the buffs from league mates while you do your thing. 

 

I've done the ToT with league and solo. And you're right, some of the EBs are fairly sturdy. 

It can be troublesome, because of the timer on re-knocking of doors both solo and on a team. If you're solo and over level 25, I'm sure you have a travel power...just zip away to another door if the trick isn't your cup of tea. Nobody will care. And even if they do, they won't know it's you. 
 

[Ukase]

On 10/12/2022 at 9:17 PM, Number Six said:

The plan was to only have them appear when in large groups, but it turned out that the Halloween code spawns things weirdly and can't actually do that.

 

There wasn't enough time to fix it for this year and we had to settle for the level 25 workaround, but it's planned for that to be changed so that in the future they won't spawn when solo trick or treating.

What was the reason for proceeding instead of waiting until next year? I'm curious. 

Personally, the only thing that doesn't make sense to me - while it's not a complaint - is the seemingly overly generous XP from those EBs.  

[Bionic_Flea]

The Devs giveth and the Devs taketh away.  DO NOT QUESTION THE GIVETH!!

 

The taketh is fair game though.