Devs, please explain why you are nerfing one of the most popular activities on Homecoming

[Neiska]

9 minutes ago, Sovera said:

 

I see what you are saying and I bear you no ill will. I don't say this sarcastically but it needs repeating since text medium.

 

I bare you no ill will either, but I appreciate the clarification and sincerity. Not to put too fine a point on it, but yes, the rest of your post is pretty accurate. One part of the community feels lied to, or unwelcome. And it's got to the point that they won't speak up about it. As an example and speaking purely for myself here, but after the last beta I certainly will never participate in any beta again. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. And I don't care to repeat the same actions and expect different results. 

 

While I do agree with your and other's points that Devs/HC staff have no reason to lie, at least none as far as I am aware, other's don't see it that way. And given how similar concerns were responded to when voiced, publicly both by Devs as well as other players, it sort of becomes a self-fullfilling prophecy. 

 

9 minutes ago, Sovera said:

What they -do- want is to have people come out of the AE and play the rest of the game but there is no tweaking of rewards that can happen before the bugs are removed.

 

Can you not see that those who want to play AE as a primary activity or even perhaps as their only activity might take slight or even more staunch attitudes then? 

 

I mean, it quite literally is -

1. Group of players enjoying AE.

2. Devs make changes/fixes/adjustments to coax people out of AE, or make other activities equal to AE, but in doing so, AE earns less.

3. Said group of players then feels slighted, unwelcome, or unheard, and begin to have quiet conversations.

4. Devs saying they aren't against Farming. Another group of players on the forums agreeing. But that doesn't change the fact that the first group of players who were enjoying AE to begin with, earn less, or are unable to play in the same manner they did before.

 

Calling a Rose by another name won't change the smell. Personally I generally disagree with reducing what one person had, in order to make other people more equal. You should just give the other people more, so the first person is unaffected either way, and that is not what has been happening.

[ivanhedgehog]

1 hour ago, Luminara said:

 

OH NO!  You have to spend 28 extra seconds to get to the Architect building in Kings Row!  That's a 0.00156% increase in the time it takes to race to 50 in 5 hours!

 

 

 

This highlights the warped perspective I refer to in my previous post, and others I've made recently.  The AE building does not contain or consist of the entirety of the content in the game.  There are story arcs, *Fs, Trials, Giant Monsters, events, badge missions, one-off missions, tip and morality missions and an endless supply of scanner/paper missions, but when anything is changed, people with this perspective leap straight to the conclusion that the one thing, the only thing, that the change was for was to "nerf farming", as though farming was the only thing that this game existed for, the only purpose of the set or power to be in the game at all.  You don't see a change to the game, you see an attack on farmers which the developers are trying to hide by also changing in the rest of the game.

 

Megalomaniacal much?

 

 

Should one activity be the single best activity for everything?  Wouldn't that imply that there is a "right way to play", and everyone who isn't doing it is "doing it wrong"?  Making AE content rewards equivalent to standard content is fair and right, as it ensures that no one play style stands so far above every other than it becomes the "right way to play".  You do not "deserve" a higher reward rate than other players simply because you engage in your preferred activity.  You aren't "owed" triple XP, or 2.1x inf*, or two extra chances for drops on every defeat, just for being a farmer, or a role-player, or a story arc runner, or a *F speed-runner, or anything else.  You get what everyone else gets.  That's equality.  If you can't handle being equal to others, stick to single-player games.

One activity is hands down the most rewarding playstyle in the game and the devs have ZERO problem with that. HM TFs reward the most hands down by a large margin. As you say"You do not "deserve" a higher reward rate than other players simply because you engage in your preferred activity." So your equality argument is void.

[MoonSheep]

1 minute ago, ivanhedgehog said:

One activity is hands down the most rewarding playstyle in the game and the devs have ZERO problem with that. HM TFs reward the most hands down by a large margin. As you say"You do not "deserve" a higher reward rate than other players simply because you engage in your preferred activity." So your equality argument is void.

 

higher risk = higher rewards, makes sense

 

[ivanhedgehog]

2 minutes ago, MoonSheep said:

 

higher risk = higher rewards, makes sense

 

so you admit that the whole "equality" argument is BS. and higher risk of what? if you build your toon for an activity you lessen the risk. Properly geared toons are doing 4 star ITFs in 30 min. risk???riiiight

Edited October 20, 2022 by ivanhedgehog

[MoonSheep]

5 minutes ago, ivanhedgehog said:

so you admit that the whole "equality" argument is BS. and higher risk of what? if you build your toon for an activity you lessen the risk. Properly geared toons are doing 4 star ITFs in 30 min. risk???riiiight

 

higher risk of failure, time spent to complete objectives and repeat deaths

 

not all teams are able to complete hard mode TFs, not all teams who set out to speed a hard mode TF succeed in doing it speedily

 

the challenges are far greater than other content - increased defence on enemies, increased enemy accuracy, damage and available powers

 

it’s aligned with common game structures that a higher risk activity would provide an increase in reward for completion

 

this is not a new game mechanic, defeating a +4 enemy gives a higher reward than defeating one of the same level

[ivanhedgehog]

13 minutes ago, MoonSheep said:

 

higher risk of failure, time spent to complete objectives and repeat deaths

 

not all teams are able to complete hard mode TFs, not all teams who set out to speed a hard mode TF succeed in doing it speedily

 

the challenges are far greater than other content - increased defence on enemies, increased enemy accuracy, damage and available powers

 

it’s aligned with common game structures that a higher risk activity would provide an increase in reward for completion

 

this is not a new game mechanic, defeating a +4 enemy gives a higher reward than defeating one of the same level

not all teams can farm, but you have no problem nerfing them to try and get people to do HM. But you have admitted there is NO EQUALITY. so stop trying to shovel that bs.

[Luminara]

Just now, ivanhedgehog said:

One activity is hands down the most rewarding playstyle in the game and the devs have ZERO problem with that. HM TFs reward the most hands down by a large margin. As you say"You do not "deserve" a higher reward rate than other players simply because you engage in your preferred activity." So your equality argument is void.

 

The content with the hardest foes, which warrants higher rewards due to the increased difficulty, higher likelihood of player defeats, stricter requirements of builds and more stringent necessity to interact with the game, versus the content which requires... an AFK account logged in and one power set to auto-activate?  Seriously?  You're throwing Hard Mode content out as your comparison?

 

No, my argument is not void.  If a solo player could go AFK in Hard Mode Task/Strike Forces and complete them, they'd offer the same rewards as going AFK in AE farms.  If players could specify enemy attacks and damage mitigation in Hard Mode content so they could create ideal situations for their characters, they'd offer the same rewards as active farming.  Expecting carefully tailored AE farms, designed to be as easily and rapidly completed as possible with as little risk as can be devised, or which can be completed while not even actively participating with the content, to offer rewards on par with the hardest content in the game, is just entitled whining.

[ivanhedgehog]

16 minutes ago, Luminara said:

 

The content with the hardest foes, which warrants higher rewards due to the increased difficulty, higher likelihood of player defeats, stricter requirements of builds and more stringent necessity to interact with the game, versus the content which requires... an AFK account logged in and one power set to auto-activate?  Seriously?  You're throwing Hard Mode content out as your comparison?

 

No, my argument is not void.  If a solo player could go AFK in Hard Mode Task/Strike Forces and complete them, they'd offer the same rewards as going AFK in AE farms.  If players could specify enemy attacks and damage mitigation in Hard Mode content so they could create ideal situations for their characters, they'd offer the same rewards as active farming.  Expecting carefully tailored AE farms, designed to be as easily and rapidly completed as possible with as little risk as can be devised, or which can be completed while not even actively participating with the content, to offer rewards on par with the hardest content in the game, is just entitled whining.

You just said that all activities are NOT rewarded equally. Toons for HM are built just as carefully for that content as farm toons are built for theirs. If you were running on SOs you might have a point. when they are completing in 30 mi, there cant be that much risk. ae farming is not and has not been the 1 stop shop for rewards. HM farming is however.

Edited October 20, 2022 by ivanhedgehog

[Doc_Scorpion]

49 minutes ago, Neiska said:

 

Calling a Rose by another name won't change the smell. Personally I generally disagree with reducing what one person had, in order to make other people more equal. You should just give the other people more, so the first person is unaffected either way, and that is not what has been happening.

Nor should it be happening.  When you find a nail sticking out of the floor, you pound it back in.  You don't eff up your entire house and give yourself a thousand times more work by raising the floors in the entire house.

Or, to put it simply, the devs were faced with a simple choice...  They could do grave damage to the entire game.  Or they could modify the one part that was causing problems.  The choice is a no brainer.

[Songseven]

think i missing something here,

 

you're still able to farm AE right?!

 

so what exactly is the problem, things change get over it, nothing has been taken from you.

[Neiska]

16 minutes ago, Doc_Scorpion said:

Nor should it be happening.  When you find a nail sticking out of the floor, you pound it back in.  You don't eff up your entire house and give yourself a thousand times more work by raising the floors in the entire house.

Or, to put it simply, the devs were faced with a simple choice...  They could do grave damage to the entire game.  Or they could modify the one part that was causing problems.  The choice is a no brainer.

 

And nor should you pound that one nail in, and then say you weren't out for that one nail. But please make no mistake, I am not claiming "nothing" should have been done. I just take a dim view on what was done. You could have adjusted it from both ends - lower AE a "little", raise non-AE a "little" to meet in the middle. Or raise non-AE. Or, you know, actually standardize "everything" regardless of activity, (but they won't do that one either.)

 

IMO, they did what you said, the "no brainer" and took path of least resistance. I don't blame them for it, but I do arch an eyebrow when they take the path of least resistance, and then the atmosphere became "It wasn't a nerf, it was a fix. We aren't out for farmers we swear" when in the same patch, they made it a point to "encourage" non-AE activities. 

 

The players whose main activities was the AE, or even only the AE, will certainly feel slighted, and I don't think it should be a shock to anyone. But I guess they got what they wanted, I do see less AEs and Farms, but I also see less players as well. If you strongarm players into either playing non-AE content, or playing AE at a reduced rate, many will choose option 3 - playing something else, or even option 4 which I won't mention publically due to forum policy.

[MistressOhm]

Apparently the AFK PL crowd are dismayed to find that this is not, and was never supposed to be, an AFK game.  Who knew?

[Neiska]

6 minutes ago, Songseven said:

think i missing something here,

 

you're still able to farm AE right?!

 

so what exactly is the problem, things change get over it, nothing has been taken from you.

 

Multilayered question.

 

Yes, you can still "farm."

You can still "afk farm" but will have to change how.

You can still actively farm, but will earn less exp/inf.

No, you cannot farm in the same method/build and earn the same inf/exp rate.

Yes, what people used to earn has been reduced. I wouldn't say "taken" perhaps as that implies ownership, but to say "get over it" is a bit disheartening. I don't see this as a contest or race here, I see us as a community. And one part telling another part to effectively "stfu" is not only minimalizing, but pretty depressing as well.

 

[Songseven]

3 minutes ago, Neiska said:

Multilayered question.

 

no.....rhetorical question

 

learn to adapt.

[Neiska]

Just now, Songseven said:

 

no.....rhetorical question

 

learn to adapt.

 

Or perhaps they could stop putting pressure on people to do an activity they don't enjoy? And just leave them be playing the game how they like? Why isn't that an option?

 

Not everyone want's to play what is being artificially encouraged. And those that don't feel punished for not doing so. It isn't a question of adapt, it feels like a "do this or else." And honestly, in the future I expect even more, well, lets call them creative measures to further entice/force/strongarm/bribe players into doing certain content.

[TheZag]

Ooo its starting to get good.  Someone post a popcorn meme.

 

[kelika2]

They want them out of AE so they can speed task force merit farm like everyone else.  You see, using AE to skip is bad, but speeding TFs is good because just because ok?

[Neiska]

2 minutes ago, kelika2 said:

They want them out of AE so they can speed task force merit farm like everyone else.  You see, using AE to skip is bad, but speeding TFs is good because just because ok?

 

[kelika2]

1 minute ago, Neiska said:

 

No you have to get out of sitting at a door in AE and go sit at a door in speed ITF while someone clears the crystals wait for ATT last mission towers only

[Riverdusk]

If I was a farmer I'd be a little embarrassed at seeing a thread like this.  If they suddenly made converters somehow cost twice as much (the market is how I prefer to "farm" myself), I'd shrug my shoulders and go "okay, whatever".

[TheZag]

I think comparing farming to hardmode might be fair.  Just bring 8 fully geared and optimally built farmers to an AE farm.  Have everyone go in seperate directions and farm as fast as they can.  If you arent out earning that hardmode TF with a group similar to theirs then you probably arent farming hard enough.  Comparing a hardmode team to 1 farmer or 1 farmer and 7 leechers of course will come up behind.  If 8 people on any content cant outcompete 1 person then there is certainly a problem and at that point AE would definitely need to be nerfed.

 

[kelika2]

1 minute ago, Krimson said:

Heck with that. I made two 50s in four days casually Trick or Treating. That's the REAL farm right now. 😄

damn winter lord babies5.0

 

actually now that we can play masterminds on boxed accounts i wonder if i can get away with 3 masterminds at non-pi hotels farming myself up

[Neiska]

4 minutes ago, TheZag said:

I think comparing farming to hardmode might be fair.  Just bring 8 fully geared and optimally built farmers to an AE farm.  Have everyone go in seperate directions and farm as fast as they can.  If you arent out earning that hardmode TF with a group similar to theirs then you probably arent farming hard enough.  Comparing a hardmode team to 1 farmer or 1 farmer and 7 leechers of course will come up behind.  If 8 people on any content cant outcompete 1 person then there is certainly a problem and at that point AE would definitely need to be nerfed.

 

 

Sure, But I would also want the merits/astrals/weekly rewards included as well, not just the inf/kill tally.

[Glacier Peak]

Entitlement

[kelika2]

Just now, Glacier Peak said:

Entitlement

Its only entitlement if you dont want or dont like what someone else wants