fire Fire Change Discussion

[Frosticus]

So the rule is:

You get a taunt aura if

1. You don't have a damage aura*

2. You have an have an aura that debuffs enemies while buffing the player**

* unless you play bio

**unless you play invuln

 

There are  11 secondaries with auras of some type, so the rule is broken close to ~20% of the time.

 

Mostly I just want to play ice armor (axe/ice) and it irks me.

 

Edit: the exceptions indicate to me that if you have an aura it should probably taunt for scrappers. I'd be ok even having to slot a taunt enhancement in to activate it (in case anyone enjoys fleeing enemies)

Edited November 1, 2022 by Frosticus

[BrandX]

  On 11/1/2022 at 6:04 AM, Lazarillo said:

Huh, sure enough.  I'mma chalk that up to Bio Armor never really getting a balance pass on HC despite being unfinished/still in beta stages, when the game originally closed down.  If you were to go over the set carefully, there's probably a lot that's kind of outta whack with it.

 

(Also note that, personally, I would certainly like Scrappers to get taunt effects more universally applied; I'm not in disagreement with you, per se.  But the "rule" does seem to be there, whether it's a useful one or not.)

Expand  

 

I'd personally understand some of the sets not having the taunt aura (Regeneration, Super Reflexes, Ninjitsu) and would understand if Energy Aura lost it's aura (it's taunt is in the mez protection), and I'm not even sure all damage sets should have it...however, I do find it useful.

[Frosticus]

I'm a simple guy. Either blazing aura should cause enemies to flee because it is burning them, or it should infuriate them into attacking me like I'm vaping in their face.

The latter is preferred, but doing nothing is worse than doing something imo.

[SomeGuy]

  On 11/1/2022 at 4:53 PM, Frosticus said:

I'm a simple guy. Either blazing aura should cause enemies to flee because it is burning them, or it should infuriate them into attacking me like I'm vaping in their face.

The latter is preferred, but doing nothing is worse than doing something imo.

Expand  

 

Blazing Aura is vaping in their face but it smells like cotton candy. Mass confusion.

[aethereal]

Guys.  The deal is you get a taunt aura if your armor set gives you a benefit from having lots of enemies close.  So like the stacking defense from invulnerability or the healing from willpower.

 

Edit: very specifically

 

Invul gets +def per close opponent

Willpower gets +regen per close opponent

Energy gets +recharge per close opponent

Bio gets healing or absorb power close opponent from two different powers

Shield gets +damage per close opponent

 

And those are the five scrapper sets that get taunt.

 

Edited November 2, 2022 by aethereal

[BrandX]

  On 11/2/2022 at 3:58 PM, aethereal said:

Guys.  The deal is you get a taunt aura if your armor set gives you a benefit from having lots of enemies close.  So like the stacking defense from invulnerability or the healing from willpower.

 

Edit: very specifically

 

Invul gets +def per close opponent

Willpower gets +regen per close opponent

Energy gets +recharge per close opponent

Bio gets healing or absorb power close opponent from two different powers

Shield gets +damage per close opponent

 

And those are the five scrapper sets that get taunt.

 

Expand  

 

Electric Armor gets +End per opponent drained by Lightning Field, right? 🙂

[aethereal]

  On 11/2/2022 at 4:58 PM, BrandX said:

 

Electric Armor gets +End per opponent drained by Lightning Field, right? 🙂

Expand  

Nope!

[StriderIV]

  On 11/2/2022 at 3:58 PM, aethereal said:

Guys.  The deal is you get a taunt aura if your armor set gives you a benefit from having lots of enemies close.  So like the stacking defense from invulnerability or the healing from willpower.

 

Edit: very specifically

 

Invul gets +def per close opponent

Willpower gets +regen per close opponent

Energy gets +recharge per close opponent

Bio gets healing or absorb power close opponent from two different powers

Shield gets +damage per close opponent

 

And those are the five scrapper sets that get taunt.

 

Expand  

Rad Armor also gets a taunt on a Scrapper.

[aethereal]

  On 11/2/2022 at 5:11 PM, StriderIV said:

Rad Armor also gets a taunt on a Scrapper.

Expand  

So it does.  And it also gets +recharge per nearby opponent.  I regret the omission from the list and am grateful for the correction (but note that the overall point stands).

[Frosticus]

  On 11/2/2022 at 3:58 PM, aethereal said:

Guys.  The deal is you get a taunt aura if your armor set gives you a benefit from having lots of enemies close.  So like the stacking defense from invulnerability or the healing from willpower.

 

Edit: very specifically

 

Invul gets +def per close opponent

Willpower gets +regen per close opponent

Energy gets +recharge per close opponent

Bio gets healing or absorb power close opponent from two different powers

Shield gets +damage per close opponent

 

And those are the five scrapper sets that get taunt.

 

Expand  

 

Do you mean if the taunt aura specifically buffs you, irrespective of what is going on in the rest of the set? 

 

Your logic stands up. All the taunt auras provide a player buff.

Some other sets have powerful self buffs that greatly benefit from saturation, but they aren't attached to the aura -  like ice armor.

 

Good deduction!

[StriderIV]

  On 11/2/2022 at 5:18 PM, aethereal said:

So it does.  And it also gets +recharge per nearby opponent.  I regret the omission from the list and am grateful for the correction (but note that the overall point stands).

Expand  

Absolutely, your point holds!

[Murcielago]

I'm considering rolling a fire/bio character.

[lemming]

  On 11/21/2022 at 8:14 PM, Murcielago said:

I'm considering rolling a fire/bio character.

Expand  

I have a Bio/fire tank that's fun to play though they've been on my respec list since the Fold Space intro.

[Sir Myshkin]

  On 11/21/2022 at 8:14 PM, Murcielago said:

I'm considering rolling a fire/bio character.

Expand  

 

Nah, go Electric, it's much cooler.

 

Had one of these planned since Fire was a consideration, full capped res and 45% S/L/M with 50% end reduction on all attacks? Yessir.

 

Edited November 24, 2022 by Sir Myshkin

[BrandX]

  On 11/24/2022 at 5:25 AM, Sir Myshkin said:

 

Nah, go Electric, it's much cooler.

 

Had one of these planned since Fire was a consideration, full capped res and 45% S/L/M with 50% end reduction on all attacks? Yessir.

 

Expand  

 

Ooooh.  Can I see that build, so I can see if I want to make changes to my KM/Elec?

[Murcielago]

  On 11/24/2022 at 5:25 AM, Sir Myshkin said:

 

Nah, go Electric, it's much cooler.

 

 

Had one of these planned since Fire was a consideration, full capped res and 45% S/L/M with 50% end reduction on all attacks? Yessir.

 

Expand  

The fire/bio is a concept build.

[Sir Myshkin]

  On 11/24/2022 at 7:47 AM, BrandX said:

 

Ooooh.  Can I see that build, so I can see if I want to make changes to my KM/Elec?

Expand  

 

This was originally meant to be Moonbeam and Shadow Meld but I just can't get over how much I dislike Breath of Fire at such a short cone length, and since SM isn't really needed, I swapped it to Zapp/Ball. This is also not really a proc-minded build which can skew against KM a bit in regards to its ability to pump out its early attacks in fast succession where procs do well.

  Reveal hidden contents

| Copy & Paste this data into Mids Reborn : Hero Designer to view the build |
		|-------------------------------------------------------------------|
		|MxDz;1879;801;1602;HEX;|
		|78DA7594CB4F137110C767B75B6B4B0BD41679D64A79F501A5558F1A35028902066|
		|DE2B5D9949FD0584BB32D89DED544BDF83A78408DDEFC1B3C196F0A7AF41FF0A0F2|
		|2AF8400F5AA73B3BF06B4D37D9EC67E73733BF99EFEF317D6DCCBDB23C750A94E63|
		|339BD584CA732865E2808C3715E2F2D1A7A0EAA8F03DF2E1E494F8B9C10F189AC30|
		|AE13077787C6C465912F8AF8784E644A4636933E6D5C5D30BC67F3F3C210F9529CA|
		|165666121179F12FAAC308AF3D982CBFC4F158498F59838919D9B2F65F3736E762C|
		|E04FFB78219B89A74A7AEE4AB58CC5F4B45E2C61151D58DE30BE371C203F1515E09|
		|D0D20A9C121F84010856582350F7A287BBE1AC0771A51E107C32F020D7618221832|
		|A4C14D9C4991A2ED0ACCE037E4843EB840300817098621C5203433CD30A4C14CB38|
		|E45D8A434361BBCA599F6C17B82FDB0C27092E016CE6DDF2BBDA2D82186DFA41383|
		|5EAAA68B175D1C725E07B429E648045A15D37714FC6449C21F740968B081C538654|
		|59CAC888B8570B134ADAC489415D9C4E82639BA89A3DD1CE4E634CDF09BA09FA3FB|
		|B0608F14AD78C0A15ABE4E02155D5AA4C5C59F0A3E701BED5EC96EF7C212C93C084|
		|F189E120CC13386E70C2728FD16D6EF9357D4079FA9483F7C61F84A70105619D6B8|
		|91750254DA947A57F93656AA83F5E86019FA58986D9CBB5D0A8276180173E40EA6E|
		|B949BEB8441AAB70BC20C11821E8832C4546B718608EE629A6EB9B96EB847FD1F86|
		|FB0C0F181E12F4C22386D798C687DB1FD304E43401D8E0F3B5C950B659415BDCE53|
		|6C1287CB354C3344179B183BC3BFB61925CCAA84848725143A64001270A73C466ED|
		|5B6BEF8430DD809C6E80CF4392E1138684F7CE6B450DC3F1EAB566C3F390504D970|
		|82CD199DC7103C4E4158C019EB0EA8C23F057B300EC564B2A810F6B88CB2B188717|
		|94D78F230979DB26B8D9A0567B03557AB4DAEBCB34E20E9F6A609FD1E478B42B645|
		|F77D55E4E68B7B6D3C6FF23611AD9AC1B5115E8E5A37E89EA3D00E748F0729D2F72|
		|59B35C7E12BC89E2FA49A55526D190909B8D36682AD1C09E6C603FDAC07EAC81DDD|
		|98A576E4D653EAC58AEEC63BDE171D5208784FC751EAF4275867F3A150A40|
		|-------------------------------------------------------------------|

 

[ninja surprise]

Wait is Fiery Melee good now? Imma have to go dig out my old toons that led to massive disillusionment after so many tries!

I know my highest levels are a Rad/Fiery and Shield/Fiery tanks... Looks like I also have Scrappers of the Fiery/Fiery, Fiery/Enery type.

Huh, and a FM/Rad Brute. 

More alts to alt on!

[Zect]

  On 12/1/2022 at 5:09 AM, ninja surprise said:

Wait is Fiery Melee good now?

Expand  

 

It has always been a highly effective set. The only power that was truly bad was combustion.

 

Now it is straight up overpowered. Accepting -def means +2 procs and achilles' heel, the swords deal pure exotic damage and it gets soft control in Cremate.

[Murcielago]

  On 12/1/2022 at 5:09 AM, ninja surprise said:

Wait is Fiery Melee good now? Imma have to go dig out my old toons that led to massive disillusionment after so many tries!

I know my highest levels are a Rad/Fiery and Shield/Fiery tanks... Looks like I also have Scrappers of the Fiery/Fiery, Fiery/Enery type.

Huh, and a FM/Rad Brute. 

More alts to alt on!

Expand  

always has been

[Ratch_]

  On 11/2/2022 at 3:58 PM, aethereal said:

Guys.  The deal is you get a taunt aura if your armor set gives you a benefit from having lots of enemies close.  So like the stacking defense from invulnerability or the healing from willpower.

 

Edit: very specifically

 

Invul gets +def per close opponent

Willpower gets +regen per close opponent

Energy gets +recharge per close opponent

Bio gets healing or absorb power close opponent from two different powers

Shield gets +damage per close opponent

 

And those are the five scrapper sets that get taunt.

 

Expand  

Sorry for nitpick, you are correct in this post, but Bio gets +res per close opponent. DNA siphon has the description tag of taunting but it has no inherent ability despite the description text. Evolving Armor is it's only way of taunting enemies. 

There are two consistency concerns with taunt auras between all these sets though (invuln, willpower, energy, bio, rad, shield) that I would like to be addressed because 2 of the six get the short end of the stick. They all have mag 3 taunt, but the duration is the concern.

Willpower has the "weakest" taunt aura, with it's duration only being 1.25s. 
Energy Aura has the second "weakest", with a duration of 2.25s.
The rest are 13.6s, more than tenfold the duration of Willpower's. 😞

Willpower and Energy aura have the ability to keep enemies close to you once they are in range, but the other 4 gives you better ability to actually herd a bit because of the longer duration. You can give enemies the taunt affect and then move through the enemies and group them better while the taunt wears off and doesn't let you do this as consistently with Willpower and Energy Aura.
 

[Syelence]

FM/FA all day!!! FA is crazy good also and the endurance management is crazy. It's extremely sturdy and the damage is just sick.

[SomeGuy]

  On 12/3/2022 at 1:16 PM, Murcielago said:

always has been

Expand  

 

Numbers wise? Lol, no. Not even in the argument. Fun? That depends on the person. I like it thematically.

[ninja surprise]

  On 12/6/2022 at 12:54 AM, SomeGuy said:

 

Numbers wise? Lol, no. Not even in the argument. Fun? That depends on the person. I like it thematically.

Expand  

 

Yep, it's been great for every AT except the melee ATs where it's long been at the bottom of the damage pile with low up-front/burst damage and low DoTs.

I've loved it for style but always got frustrated how my enemies took so long to burn up vs any of the other weapon sets. And two of my favorites are Staff and Dark melee, which aren't on the high end of the scale.

[SomeGuy]

  On 12/12/2022 at 5:22 AM, ninja surprise said:

 

Yep, it's been great for every AT except the melee ATs where it's long been at the bottom of the damage pile with low up-front/burst damage and low DoTs.

I've loved it for style but always got frustrated how my enemies took so long to burn up vs any of the other weapon sets. And two of my favorites are Staff and Dark melee, which aren't on the high end of the scale.

Expand  

 

 

Staff is the Dual Pistols equivalent for melee. Holy crap it looks great and is fun to play, but wow the damage is bad.

 

You make a good point. Fire was the go-to set for everything BUT melee if you wanted raw performance at a time. Guess it finally got the love it deserved.