Are there Pet-less MMs on Homecoming?

[bellona100]

 09-13-2010, 02:16 PM

Mr_Frost

Rookie 

Join Date: Feb 2008

Posts: 281

 

 Re: Mastermind Guides and FAQs

Lots of people have made petless MM's.  Basically they play like rather weak corruptors or defenders.

Aside from the challenge there isn't much point to doing it.

---

 

I just copied this post from the old CoHs Freedom forums.  I am curious to know if these characters are on Homecoming.  I say this because I am constantly hearing the adage that anything can work in PvE.  Well, I am not so sure about this one.

[Astralock]

There's petless Masterminds on Homecoming.  They're not good nor even decent, but they're there.

 

Pretty much anything can work in PvE, except for petless Masterminds, Hideless Stalkers, and skipping all but one of your attacks (like some Empathy Defenders do).

 

If you want to play a petless Mastermind, you're much better off playing a Corruptor instead.

Edited November 2, 2022 by Astralock

[Meknomancer]

Saw a petless mm on an underground a few days ago. Don't know how effective they were it seems a bit of a pointless exercise to skip your tier 1 set. They did have pistols/dual wield/empty clips so at least they had something. Kind of like a dp/ corr. But not as good.

[Meknomancer]

Almost makes sense with whips because we don't yet have a whip set but still. Demons are a really good pet set.

[biostem]

I'd be surprised if there wasn't *some* combination of powers that wasn't tried yet...

[Six-Six]

I've got a petless project. I started out with a bunch of them. I made a Bots just to get the different Beam Rifle variants not available for the other ATs, but now the same BR models can be equipped by all ATs so I shelved him... might play him again one of these days. I didn't like how you can't customise Necro's Dark Blast attacks, and I wasn't really into the (Ninja's) bow and arrows. my Beasts went a different path (only wolves + hawk). I am intrigued by pistols since the animation is different from Dual Pistols' over-the-top campiness. So all I'm left with is the whips guy.

Also, not really an MM, but a Psi Melee scrapper that only took the 3 psi blade powers... which kinda puts it in the same league, only its attacks do more damage.

[Disruptor]

10 hours ago, Meknomancer said:

Saw a petless mm on an underground a few days ago. Don't know how effective they were it seems a bit of a pointless exercise to skip your tier 1 set. They did have pistols/dual wield/empty clips so at least they had something. Kind of like a dp/ corr. But not as good.

 

This was likely me.

 

I've run a Pistols/Traps MM on Excelsior from lvl1 through 50+. I prefer the Pistol animations in Thugs than the Gun Fu-like animations in Duel Pistols. As my character is more Mad Scientist than gun expert. Traps is my favorite powerset and I did briefly run Gang War solely for Detonator but ended up not liking it as I was taking a power I didn't like just so another could function. Ended up dropping both.

 

I have Pistols, Dual Wield and Empty Clips along w/ Toxic Dart & Corrosive Vial as my attacks. I attempted petless MM numerous times even on Live but never got very far usually stopped at lvl20. I'm enjoying it right now. I love the thugs pistol animations and the experimental pool animations specifically Corrosive Vial, Experimental Injection and Adrenal Boost.

 

Additionally I've never actually been a fan of the MM pet gameplay. I believe I've had over 30+ lvl50s and only once did I get an MM to 50 and I barely played it once it reached max lvl. I don't enjoy the play style or the nature of the henchmen gameplay. I certainly thought they were cooler the less I knew about them like when they launched with CoV but that goes for other classes too. When I first started playing CoH in 2004 I really liked Tanks and Melee classes which I dislike now.

 

Another thing which has led me to Petless MM is I try to find different ways to enjoy the game. Also optimization or min/maxing in the traditional sense isnt fun to me, I often have fun going form (theme) over function and finding unique ways to play the game.

Edited November 3, 2022 by Disruptor

[biostem]

I wonder if a necro MM that just took the blasts could be considered "petless", with the new mechanics...

[tidge]

Not a "Pet-less (sic) Mastermind" but this build is my MM w/ one big henchman (a robot) leveraging page 5.

 

If there are lessons from this effort (I tried low-level content without access to any henchmen, pseudo pets are another matter) it is this: even with respectable %damage in AoE attacks, it is painfully slow to run content without the henchmen. I'd never consider playing /traps without the pseudopets or FFG. %damage is pretty much the way to go, although global Accuracy and/or +ToHit will be important to make the %procs more reliable. Playing this (Robotics primary) was better than it was prior to page 5, but I still felt it to be too slow to finish missions. I didn't have any problems with +1/x8 at 50 (Alpha shift in play) except for very slow map clear times. I didn't do any PUGs with this build, but I feel like (modulo the lack of henchmen to absorb damage) this would be a "contributor" on PUGs.

 

If I was to consider a true, no henchmen-summons-being-used build, I'd probably still pick henchmen powers to leverage ATO bonuses (IIRC, the MM ATO can only go into the primary summoning powers) although I think could skimp on a few slots...it depends on if I want to mule enhancements using the summonses/upgrades as well (e.g. Defense pieces in Protector Bots) or any other sets. I'd probably add another attack at a low level, because waiting for a decent Epic pool attack (with moar %proc AoE) would be a PITA for the content I like to play. The only obvious change in primary power choices to this build for solo would be replacing Repair Drone with Triage Beacon. I think I could mule everything else.

 

[biostem]

4 minutes ago, tidge said:

Not a "Pet-less (sic) Mastermind" but this build is my MM w/ one big henchman (a robot) leveraging page 5.

I was debating doing something with necro, as I dislike the T1 zombies.  I reckon it'd be a tad easier, since I would take the blasts...

[tidge]

Let us know how it goes. I felt like the "One Big Robot" (with a lot of traps) would have been a fine roleplay character. For standard PUGs, I wonder if anyone would notice just the one hench. Bodyguard mode is a big missing piece, YMMV. I will also note that this build was a second build on a character that had already hit level 50, so it had access to more slots and set bonuses than it would have had while leveling up. Endurance wasn't really an issue unless I kept the travel powers on.

[Wavicle]

With the -Regen now in the Bots MM attacks it could be an "ok" debuffer character...

[tidge]

30 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

With the -Regen now in the Bots MM attacks it could be an "ok" debuffer character...

 

 Mmmm... maybe? I didn't change my (multi-bot) strategy in solo against against the Halloween GMs, and they definitely fell faster than in the previous season.

 

Against typical PvE opponents, regeneration shouldn't matter... except up course for the generally pitiful MM damage scale! On a team with DPS mates, the -regen is unlikely to matter for almost all content. One of the reasons my -1x8 map clear times were so bad, enemies took to the hills! Thanks debuff (and the no longer using KB->KD pieces in the robot).

[TygerDarkstorm]

3 hours ago, Disruptor said:

 I don't enjoy the passive play style or the nature of the henchmen gameplay.

I don't enjoy passive MM's either, and I always get confused when I see other MM's just standing around doing nothing while their henchmen attack. I think that's why I rarely play more passive MM secondaries. I play pretty much all of my MM's actively.

 

And I mean no disrespect to you by saying that either! 🙂 I understand that everybody has their own means of making the game fun for them, and it's certainly not like you can't make a petless MM work in PvE. Kudos to your project. 🙂

[UltraAlt]

13 hours ago, bellona100 said:

I just copied this post from the old CoHs Freedom forums.  I am curious to know if these characters are on Homecoming.  I say this because I am constantly hearing the adage that anything can work in PvE.  Well, I am not so sure about this one.

 

Oh, I had one that was a beast mastermind, but I found out you can get the bird and insect powers  with a dominator as well (savage assault).

It wasn't horrible to be a pet-less beast mastermind, but I was running with empathy secondary. It was a bit end heavy, and I was often soloing.

 

Next attempt was Demons mastermind, because of the whip.

I have 3 of these at this point. 

 

I wouldn't suggest using a pet-less mastermind for soloing or for much over the mid 30's.

It can be a serious challenge to solo.

 

I think the secondary really makes a huge difference.

I think electric works really well as you need to treat a the team you are on as your minions as you have no pets.

Focus on keeping the team up and functioning and attack through someone on the team. 

The whip is mostly melee, so you can be up in the fight with the melee members of your team and shield them as well as healing and buffing them.

 

You have to watch out for Tanks that do not taunt and jumping up into a battle if the enemies all purples.

When the enemy level is high and/or there is no taunting going on, then stay with the rear/ranged unit and shield/buff/heal them and attack any strays that try to move toward the backfield.

 

13 hours ago, Astralock said:

They're not good nor even decent, but they're there.

 

I don't know what level you are playing.

But I've been doing fine with my whip masterminds and been a benefit to the teams below level 40 that I have been on.

 

 

[biostem]

5 hours ago, Disruptor said:

I don't enjoy the passive play style or the nature of the henchmen gameplay.

I'll try to be as constructive as I can here, but if you are playing your MM with a "passive play style", then you're doing it wrong.  You should be actively supporting your henchmen with your secondary and/or filling in between doing that with the direct attacks, if you took any.  Heck, before slotting a panacea/miracle/numina's/end redux/etc, my MMs frequently bottom-out their end with all the buffs/debuffs/attacks they fire off while supporting their pets.  Maybe it's a difference of mindset, but if you're standing there twiddling your thumbs, then I think you're doing something wrong...

[Disruptor]

I've edit out the "passive" part.

Edited November 3, 2022 by Disruptor

[Nightmare Shaman]

Trying to play a petless MM is one of the saddest things you can experience in CoH.  

[bellona100]

15 hours ago, Nightmare Shaman said:

Trying to play a petless MM is one of the saddest things you can experience in CoH.  

This made me chuckle.   Thanks.

[plainguy]

On 11/3/2022 at 6:17 PM, Nightmare Shaman said:

Trying to play a petless MM is one of the saddest things you can experience in CoH.  

Not True.

 

Please see my signature for some of my builds.

I play about 10 or so Petless and Semi Petless Masterminds, most are last pet only. 

Trick Arrow is King. 
I have whips Trick arrow which is fun and thematic 
I only play solo on all my Petless Masterminds because I want no drama on a team with them. 

I also have a several power pool only builds which is similar in concept. Basically you can pick and use any powers from primary and secondary until level 4 where power pools are picked. The rest of the build is via power pools. Ninjutsu and Shields are primary go sets here for these types of builds.

Necro with the changes is great and fun. 

You cannot really level as a petless Mastermind due to endurance issues, plain and simple. Since Masterminds pay a higher cost to use powers, you cannot just play like any other set. You can notice that sometimes with pets as you have to slow down your attack rate or pop a few blue inspirations. Well, it is much more noticeable when petless.  it can become impossible in your 20s due to endurance even on a lowest setting mission. 

But at level 50 with IOs and yes Incarnates you can solo 3/8 or 4/8 depending on the mob type. Carnies and Malta are always tough for any AT. But council and COT are easy farming. 
I did solo an AV on my Robot Traps last pet only build. Screen shots are in the petless mm thread. 

My goal is to solo ITF. The issue I was having was fighting the AVs as it was a stalemate. I couldn't kill them and they couldn't kill me. So there was on way to advance.  

• Requiem (5th Column Arch-villain, 5th General) (this is the 5th general)
• Romulus Augustus (Arch-villain)