Changes to stealth unnecessary....

[WillParkinson]

Stealth + Super Speed has always equaled invisibility. For all the years I've played CoH, this was the way it worked. Now? You've removed this, and it's totally unnecessary, and it takes some of the fun from the game.

 

Just my opinion. Yours may vary.

[Yaliw]

The real tragedy is that SoA and Widow stealth isn't even as good as the pool power. It only has 40' stealth while the powerpool is 55'. So now SoA and Widows have no way beyond the clunky use of the IO Stealth to obtain true invisibility.

 

Thanks for the nerf?

[Honorbridge]

1 hour ago, WillParkinson said:

Stealth + Super Speed has always equaled invisibility.

 

29 minutes ago, Yaliw said:

The real tragedy is that SoA and Widow stealth isn't even as good as the pool power. It only has 40' stealth while the powerpool is 55'.

Both of these are a consequence of the changes to the Concealment pool.

Stealth by itself is now equal to Invisibility.  

 

SoA/Widow stealth used to be between Stealth and Invisibility in strength, but Invisibility was folded into Stealth, which leaves most if not all other stealth powers (not including Superior Invisibility) giving less stealth radius than the power pool.

[Astralock]

Yep.  This point was raised multiple times during testing, but somehow the developers were convinced that it's a quality of life upgrade.  How, I'll never know.  C'est la vie.  It's done, and I don't expect it to be changed back.

[DoctorDitko]

... But Mastermind pets now treat Stealth as full invisibility, and lose their "The Boss is here! Shape up!" bonuses.

Before, stacking Superspeed and Stealth didn't do that, since neither made the pets start running around like headless chickens.

 

[Glacier Peak]

2 hours ago, WillParkinson said:

Stealth + Super Speed has always equaled invisibility. For all the years I've played CoH, this was the way it worked. Now? You've removed this, and it's totally unnecessary, and it takes some of the fun from the game.

 

Just my opinion. Yours may vary.

Stealth has been Invisibility since like two or three pages ago. 

[KaizenSoze]

1 hour ago, Yaliw said:

The real tragedy is that SoA and Widow stealth isn't even as good as the pool power. It only has 40' stealth while the powerpool is 55'. So now SoA and Widows have no way beyond the clunky use of the IO Stealth to obtain true invisibility.

 

Thanks for the nerf?

It's always been like that. VEAT stealth required the stealth IO in sprint to hit levels high enough to be invisible to most mobs.

[SeraphimKensai]

39 minutes ago, Astralock said:

Yep.  This point was raised multiple times during testing, but somehow the developers were convinced that it's a quality of life upgrade.  How, I'll never know.  C'est la vie.  It's done, and I don't expect it to be changed back.

Yeah I was fairly vocal on that particular change myself during testing and even after it. I still feel that if the patch wasn't rushed out right before Faultline went on sabbatical and had a normal testing window for such a large patch it would of been reverted.

[lemming]

For those like me that never use Super Speed, it's a minor QoL increase in that a lot of the powers that were exclusive can be on at the same time as Stealth, etc...

 

Stealth by itself works as well as the old style Stealth + SS. 

 

I'd be fine with Super Speed stacking again, but it's not my call.

[Snarky]

1 hour ago, Astralock said:

Yep.  This point was raised multiple times during testing, but somehow the developers were convinced that it's a quality of life upgrade.  How, I'll never know.  C'est la vie.  It's done, and I don't expect it to be changed back.

It was a QoL upgrade.  For me.  I am on mostly Brutes and Blasters and always take fly.  A one pick dip into Concealment gives me stealth and a LOTG or Kismet Mule

 

There are other recent changes I am less happy with (shut up Snarky!).  
 

um…. I need to go argue with my inner voices.  Be back later

[WillParkinson]

2 hours ago, Honorbridge said:

 

Both of these are a consequence of the changes to the Concealment pool.

Stealth by itself is now equal to Invisibility.  

 

SoA/Widow stealth used to be between Stealth and Invisibility in strength, but Invisibility was folded into Stealth, which leaves most if not all other stealth powers (not including Superior Invisibility) giving less stealth radius than the power pool.

My guy has a stealth and it's listed as 'self stealth', but he's easily detectable. I don't think they're equal at all. (Unless I'm misunderstanding, which is totally possible.)

[WillParkinson]

2 hours ago, Glacier Peak said:

Stealth has been Invisibility since like two or three pages ago. 

Which is why I said stealth + super speed. I never expected stealth to be equal to invisibility. It's just a damn shame and makes the game less fun.

[Honorbridge]

When you say “a” stealth, do you mean the actual power “Stealth” from the concealment pool, or some other form of stealth? Because you are right that not all forms of stealth are the same, but I was referring specifically to concealment Stealth, and interpreted your original post as doing so as well.

[WillParkinson]

12 minutes ago, Honorbridge said:

When you say “a” stealth, do you mean the actual power “Stealth” from the concealment pool, or some other form of stealth? Because you are right that not all forms of stealth are the same, but I was referring specifically to concealment Stealth, and interpreted your original post as doing so as well.

I'm talking any stealth + super speed, but even if it was the concealment pool stealth, that would be okay. (The reason I said any stealth is those who have the powers of stealth, like Widows, etc.)

[Glacier Peak]

19 minutes ago, WillParkinson said:

Which is why I said stealth + super speed. I never expected stealth to be equal to invisibility. It's just a damn shame and makes the game less fun.

No STEALTH the power is now exactly what INVISIBILITY the power was. They combined those two powers so players can now meet all of their stealthing needs with just this power. 

[WillParkinson]

28 minutes ago, Glacier Peak said:

No STEALTH the power is now exactly what INVISIBILITY the power was. They combined those two powers so players can now meet all of their stealthing needs with just this power. 

Thank you. I'll have to check it out. And probably do a ton of respecs with all my characters.

[MistressOhm]

There is a bug related to these, because instead of stacking their effects, the most effective concealment power is what you get for Stealth distance.  

 

Stalker HIDE effectively makes concealment absolute - not even multiple Forts running Tactics can see you standing right beween them getting ready for shank action.  That hasn't changed.  What HAS changed is that you can't stack Stealth powers to get up to that level, so there will be a certain distance where you 'emerge' from the fog and enemies can react.  

 

The BUG is that a couple of the concealment powers have nearly the same operative range, so when the math is run to figure out which is the most effective, instead the game occasionally reduces your concealment to nil (some sort of floating point vs integer conflict, I think it was).  Which means that EVERY MOB AROUND sees you.  It's like The Invisible Kid on Mystery Men... as long as everyone had their eyes closed and he was naked, he was invisible.  He forgets to take his shorts off? Nope! Obvious as hell.   That is in the pipe to be corrected... but in the meantime, if you're running two 'fog of war' powers together, you might call attention to yourself rather than stealth yourself.  

 

My method of cheap on-demand stealth is to put the Celerity Stealth proc into Sprint.  Works decently well, doesn't require a power pick from a Power Pool, and if I don't need it, I can turn it off.  

 

Night Widows: You're NOT a stalker.  Use the Smoke.  You can sneak up close enough to lob a smoke 'nade, and now your entire team is cloaked cos you just debuffed Perception distance for the entire spawn.  That's it, that's the trick.  (Caveat: don't put any damage or -dam debuff procs into your Smoke Grenade slotting, as that can aggro things. IOW, blinding smoke good, Sneezing powder bad.)

Edited November 24, 2022 by MistressOhm

[WillParkinson]

3 hours ago, MistressOhm said:

My method of cheap on-demand stealth is to put the Celerity Stealth proc into Sprint.  Works decently well, doesn't require a power pick from a Power Pool, and if I don't need it, I can turn it off.

 

Before I realized the change, I put a celerity into sprint, and topped it off with Super Speed, which I had done for years. Then found out things were still seeing me. That's when my friend told me about the change.

[KC4800]

I just take infiltration and put a celerity + stealth into it, run it all the time for squishies that need to position themselves and hit first. Works great for me. I feel like a stalker mostly.

 

Ran the Valeria(?) Incarnate level arc yesterday with my Ill Controller with Superior Invisibility and still was seen by some of the EB's. Is this intended? Are they Rularuu Eyeball level perceptive?

[DougGraves]

I found that the revamp of the power pools was great.  I no longer need to take powers I don't want to unlock powers I do want.

 

And I now use stealth on almost if not all of my solo characters.  Being able to stealth through some missions is a huge boon.

[lemming]

7 hours ago, KC4800 said:

Ran the Valeria(?) Incarnate level arc yesterday with my Ill Controller with Superior Invisibility and still was seen by some of the EB's. Is this intended? Are they Rularuu Eyeball level perceptive?

Engineers have extra perception levels though IMO they shouldn't see thru Superior Invis or Stalker, but there's a bunch of auras that trip those up lately.  One of my stalkers walked a little too close to some debuff thing in a level 40 arc and then got flattened by the room.  It's annoying to sneak around lately

[lemming]

12 hours ago, MistressOhm said:

There is a bug related to these, because instead of stacking their effects, the most effective concealment power is what you get for Stealth distance.  

 

Stalker HIDE effectively makes concealment absolute - not even multiple Forts running Tactics can see you standing right beween them getting ready for shank action.  That hasn't changed.  What HAS changed is that you can't stack Stealth powers to get up to that level, so there will be a certain distance where you 'emerge' from the fog and enemies can react.  

 

The BUG is that a couple of the concealment powers have nearly the same operative range, so when the math is run to figure out which is the most effective, instead the game occasionally reduces your concealment to nil (some sort of floating point vs integer conflict, I think it was).  Which means that EVERY MOB AROUND sees you.  It's like The Invisible Kid on Mystery Men... as long as everyone had their eyes closed and he was naked, he was invisible.  He forgets to take his shorts off? Nope! Obvious as hell.   That is in the pipe to be corrected... but in the meantime, if you're running two 'fog of war' powers together, you might call attention to yourself rather than stealth yourself.  

 

My method of cheap on-demand stealth is to put the Celerity Stealth proc into Sprint.  Works decently well, doesn't require a power pick from a Power Pool, and if I don't need it, I can turn it off.  

 

Night Widows: You're NOT a stalker.  Use the Smoke.  You can sneak up close enough to lob a smoke 'nade, and now your entire team is cloaked cos you just debuffed Perception distance for the entire spawn.  That's it, that's the trick.  (Caveat: don't put any damage or -dam debuff procs into your Smoke Grenade slotting, as that can aggro things. IOW, blinding smoke good, Sneezing powder bad.)

I think the last patch?  did a little bit of tweaks to the stealths to make them slightly different (+/-  0.25 iirc)

[Ukase]

23 hours ago, WillParkinson said:

I'm talking any stealth + super speed, but even if it was the concealment pool stealth, that would be okay. (The reason I said any stealth is those who have the powers of stealth, like Widows, etc.)

Um...if you're talking "any stealth" - most of my characters have Super Speed. And unless it's a tank, they ALL get a celerity stealth in sprint. 
I am stealthed with SS on, unless it's near Rikti Drones, Nemesis Snipers & Rularuu Watchers (the big eyeballs). 

So, if they changed that...they failed on my characters. I do lose stealth when I engage in combat - but that's normal and to be expected. Takes about 15 seconds after combat to resume stealth of 65 feet. 

[Hedgefund2]

That this was called a "QoL" change fills me with LOLs.  My standard for most any Cold Dom, Dark (Miasma or Affinty) or Stormy has been to take SS to stack with the aura stealth.  That's worked for me for, well, decades.  It's become common now when I pull one off the bench that I'll run past mobs and wonder why I'm getting attacked, before I remember that my quality of life has been improved so that my full invis is no longer full invis.  Fortunately the solution is simple enough and I do have a stash of stealth procs for Sprint (or Sprint-like) but I do tend to need to be reminded by taking a couple of shots, aka a QoL improvement.

[WillParkinson]

On 11/24/2022 at 6:42 PM, Hedgefund2 said:

That this was called a "QoL" change fills me with LOLs.  My standard for most any Cold Dom, Dark (Miasma or Affinty) or Stormy has been to take SS to stack with the aura stealth.  That's worked for me for, well, decades.  It's become common now when I pull one off the bench that I'll run past mobs and wonder why I'm getting attacked, before I remember that my quality of life has been improved so that my full invis is no longer full invis.  Fortunately the solution is simple enough and I do have a stash of stealth procs for Sprint (or Sprint-like) but I do tend to need to be reminded by taking a couple of shots, aka a QoL improvement.

 

I've been trying to fix it, but this whole mess is just suckish.