Where's my Super Pack: Lords of Winter Sale?

[kito]

5 hours ago, nihilii said:

 

I don't think there's anything evil with players behaving rationally either, but I think the Winter Pack sale was a pretty poor system objectively because 1) it scales so well 2) it's limited in time.

 

It breaks the risk/reward formula in a way almost unlike anything else in game. Even AFK farming is more linear, as you at least have to log on your characters and enter/exit a mission every few minutes.

I bought something like 40B or 60B inf worth of Winter Packs 2 years ago (when they were 10M), and resold most of them for a 2x+ profit. I completely abandoned doing anything for inf in the game, this netted me more than I could ever need. I'm still not done burning through that inf, and who knows if I ever will be.

that was what I liked about it. I did not need to farm grind use markets Etc I just had inf I was good. Getting inf to buy things is not what I like about the game. the more I could skip it the better. people who like to make inf will do it, be it farming or using the market same as people who like to run Content. I like to RP I build my toons as strong as I need/want them to be the things I like to do in my spare game time (making Ae mish and Base building) do not generate any natural inf as there more hobby things to do.  even now as its the holidays i'm low on INF as I gave most it away.( I think about 30 billion total this year?)  and  I wont have winter packs as a easy way to fill back up next year, So i'll just give away less inf. could it be bad don't know. do I care not really. But I did prefer not having to worry about getting inf.

[Snarky]

2 hours ago, Erratic1 said:

 

By definition if you have something someone else will pay for and you make it available, you've added something to the game--you have fulfilled a player need.

Yes, when I craft and create and sell something your statement is true.  When I take something that is already available to the players and buy it then sell it to the players at a higher price I add nothing to the game.  Winter Packs discount were an odd exploit the Devs addressed.  But evidently this thread is not done addressing lololololololol

[Ukase]

21 hours ago, Snarky said:

Sooooo you need to ask why?

 

Or do not ask why.  Remain ignorant.  And unhappy.   Or ignorant and blissfully posting about where is my stuff?

 

But you really need to ask why? 

Oh, the Snark is real with this one. 

Asking why is a question that should not only be anticipated, but it should be answered for anything that will impact player finances. As well as a host of other issues. It just kills me that about 90% of players don't bother to read the forums. Heck, I read them, and I still miss a lot of good stuff. But one thing I really miss are the reasons why. 

They never stated why the packs weren't going on sale. I just assume they were pissed at the lazy marketers that bought them for 10M two years ago who then relisted them at some price of 20-24.9M immediately after they got them and waited for the fat loot. So, last year's sale was 15M, and I think we were lucky to get that. I don't know, but I suspect they didn't want to put them on sale at all last year, but felt like it would be poor form to not put them for sale when pretty much everyone was expecting them to do so. Again, that's conjecture. 

Our GMs don't share nearly as much as they used to. It's no longer "our game", but "their game that we get to play". 

[Player2]

16 hours ago, srmalloy said:

"There has grown up in the minds of certain groups in this country the notion that because a man or corporation has made a profit out of the public for a number of years, the government and the courts are charged with the duty of guaranteeing such profit in the future, even in the face of changing circumstances and contrary to the public interest. This strange doctrine is not supported by statute or common law. Neither individuals nor corporations have any right to come into court and ask that the clock of history be stopped, or turned back."

— Robert A. Heinlein

"No one has any right to ask any individual to not be disappointed with changes, either."

— me

 

[Erratic1]

52 minutes ago, Snarky said:

Yes, when I craft and create and sell something your statement is true.  When I take something that is already available to the players and buy it then sell it to the players at a higher price I add nothing to the game.  Winter Packs discount were an odd exploit the Devs addressed.  But evidently this thread is not done addressing lololololololol

 

Utterly ignoring that the player may not have been able to afford the pack when it was cheaper but wants/needs it when it is more expensive.

 

As for removing an exploit, what it did was mean poorer players will always have to try that much harder to acquire what was at least once a year, somewhat easier to get. But I guess people like you, who are rolling in influence, just don't comprehend that.

Edited December 26, 2022 by Erratic1

[Glacier Peak]

27 minutes ago, Ukase said:

Oh, the Snark is real with this one. 

Asking why is a question that should not only be anticipated, but it should be answered for anything that will impact player finances. As well as a host of other issues. It just kills me that about 90% of players don't bother to read the forums. Heck, I read them, and I still miss a lot of good stuff. But one thing I really miss are the reasons why. 

They never stated why the packs weren't going on sale. I just assume they were pissed at the lazy marketers that bought them for 10M two years ago who then relisted them at some price of 20-24.9M immediately after they got them and waited for the fat loot. So, last year's sale was 15M, and I think we were lucky to get that. I don't know, but I suspect they didn't want to put them on sale at all last year, but felt like it would be poor form to not put them for sale when pretty much everyone was expecting them to do so. Again, that's conjecture. 

Our GMs don't share nearly as much as they used to. It's no longer "our game", but "their game that we get to play". 

Huh I guess the screenshot I shared missed that part. I know they said why, I'll have to dig through the forums or maybe the Official Discord to get the quote. 

[Snarky]

11 minutes ago, Erratic1 said:

 

Utterly ignoring that the player may not have been able to afford the pack when it was cheaper but wants/needs it when it is more expensive.

 

As for removing an exploit, what it did was mean poorer players will always have to try that much harder to acquire what was at least once a year, somewhat easier to get. But I guess people like you, who are rolling in influence, just don't comprehend that.

I cannot tell if you are being obtuse on purpose or are actually unable to comprehend.  people were reselling these packs (after winter sale ended) at right under the fixed price.  there was no 'special deal' being passed on to the little guy all through the year.  

[Shizuoka]

20 hours ago, Snarky said:

Still you do not ask why?

 

Damn.  You can lead a horse to water.  But sometimes you gotta hit them over the head with a brick and hold them under to really get the full effect.

 

So, I will tell you why.  Ready?   (I still have more bricks…)

 

When the packs went on sale those who knew how to make infamy and had massive influence stashed (we will call these people “the haves”) bought LOTS of them.  The Winter Packs.  Are you still following.  (*picks up brick, holds in hand loosely)

 

When the sale ended these people (the haves) took the hundreds and thousands of packs they bought and relisted them. For slightly below the regular rate the AH charges.  Making a guaranteed profit on every pack.  All year long.   But wait, they also opened them and sold the parts individually.  Who bought these?   Those people who are new to the server.  Those people who do not follow the sales news.  Those people who do not know how to make tons of cash in game.  (We will call these people the “have nots”).  
 

So here is the interesting part. (*throws brick right over your head). Do not let this go over your head!  If the Devs put these (winter oacks, or any packs) on sale for a couple weeks the “have nots” get a little discount on stuff they want for a while.  The “haves” get a warchest of influence making ammunition to last all year long.  (*picks up three bricks) Now, there is only one problem with a few “the haves” raking in vaults of influence.  They “the haves” use this to further manipulate and skew the market in their favor.  Basically making the “have nots” fund their takeover of the in game cash machine. 
 

Care for a brick?

For those that were buying the packs at 15m and selling them for 24m, it is not taking money from the less fortunate. It's reducing the inf sink which you could argue causes inflation due to the amount of inf in circulation. However the market has a built in inf sink tax of 10%. If a person sells a pack in February for 24m, they are stopping the game devs from removing 25m from circulation. It's player profiting off the devs not "haves" profiting off of "have nots".

(There certainly are predatory aspects of the market, buying up something that is a scarcity and shifting the market to a higher price, this however is not one of those things)

Those that buy up the packs, open, and then sell the IOs in February, are adding just as much value as you are in converting IOs. All you're doing is increasing the supply and lowering the market equilibrium which is a benefit to the "have nots". 

Example Person:
Let's say Paper Towel Pete has accrued a decent stockpile of Inf and hasn't farmed for Inf in 3 years. Each year Pete buys 666 winter packs for 15m (or 10m the first year), then sells them for 24m (pays 2.4m in tax) and makes a profit of 4.2b and saved the buyers 666m in comparison from buying it from the game itself. Pete then holds events throughout the year giving away 4.2b in prizes to the community without having to sacrifice time from his real life in order to obtain that prize pool. 

Personally I'd say that Pete is adding quite a bit to the community, I'd even say he's adding more than someone that's just crafting and converting. 

Pretty short sited to just vilify all pack flippers simply because there are some people that use their wealth to drive prices up. 

[lemming]

1 hour ago, Glacier Peak said:

Huh I guess the screenshot I shared missed that part. I know they said why, I'll have to dig through the forums or maybe the Official Discord to get the quote. 

Looked around on discord and I did find:

 

Quote

 

player :  My theory is that they got sick of people asking when/if the winter packs were going on sale.

GM Crumpet — 12/09/2021 9:39 AM

Have you got a secret camera/mike in our secret lair? I'm going to have to have words with Igor. He's supposed to find those before we plot world domination discuss changes to the game

 

 

Edited December 26, 2022 by lemming
gah, formatting is awful

[Erratic1]

1 hour ago, Snarky said:

I cannot tell if you are being obtuse on purpose or are actually unable to comprehend.  people were reselling these packs (after winter sale ended) at right under the fixed price.  there was no 'special deal' being passed on to the little guy all through the year.  

 

I cannot tell if you read for comprehension at all. POOR PEOPLE COULD AT LEAST SAVE UP FOR PACKS. At other times of the year IT MAKES NO DIFFERENCE TO THEM IF THE INFLUNCE IS GOING TO A PERSON OF DISAPPEARING INTO THE AH.

 

IS THAT CLEAR TO YOU?

 

I bought my only Winter Packs ever last season, the last time they were on sell. I worked my ass off to be able to buy more than I would at the prices they currently run at. Not to flip, to have. I had 300 million influence to my name and bought 6 because being reduced to no influence whatsoever was unpalatable. That someone else makes influence off of flipping? Read the bold above. Neither I nor anyone else with less than trillions of influence cares. Being able to buy once per year at cheaper than normal? A godsend. What Snarky thinks because he has 500 packs socked away somewhere? Immaterial.

[Snarky]

24 minutes ago, Shizuoka said:

For those that were buying the packs at 15m and selling them for 24m, it is not taking money from the less fortunate. It's reducing the inf sink which you could argue causes inflation due to the amount of inf in circulation. However the market has a built in inf sink tax of 10%. If a person sells a pack in February for 24m, they are stopping the game devs from removing 25m from circulation. It's player profiting off the devs not "haves" profiting off of "have nots".

(There certainly are predatory aspects of the market, buying up something that is a scarcity and shifting the market to a higher price, this however is not one of those things)

Those that buy up the packs, open, and then sell the IOs in February, are adding just as much value as you are in converting IOs. All you're doing is increasing the supply and lowering the market equilibrium which is a benefit to the "have nots". 

Example Person:
Let's say Paper Towel Pete has accrued a decent stockpile of Inf and hasn't farmed for Inf in 3 years. Each year Pete buys 666 winter packs for 15m (or 10m the first year), then sells them for 24m (pays 2.4m in tax) and makes a profit of 4.2b and saved the buyers 666m in comparison from buying it from the game itself. Pete then holds events throughout the year giving away 4.2b in prizes to the community without having to sacrifice time from his real life in order to obtain that prize pool. 

Personally I'd say that Pete is adding quite a bit to the community, I'd even say he's adding more than someone that's just crafting and converting. 

Pretty short sited to just vilify all pack flippers simply because there are some people that use their wealth to drive prices up. 

This is a lot of smoke and mirrors and infospeak from someone with....1 post...

 

It is also desperately trying to obfuscate the fact that it is a giant exploit for enriching those already rich.

[kito]

Everyone starts somewhere Snarky. Just love that the first thing they where passionate enough about to post for was you 🙂

[Snarky]

14 minutes ago, Erratic1 said:

 

I cannot tell if you read for comprehension at all. POOR PEOPLE COULD AT LEAST SAVE UP FOR PACKS. At other times of the year IT MAKES NO DIFFERENCE TO THEM IF THE INFLUNCE IS GOING TO A PERSON OF DISAPPEARING INTO THE AH.

 

IS THAT CLEAR TO YOU?

 

I bought my only Winter Packs ever last season, the last time they were on sell. I worked my ass off to be able to buy more than I would at the prices they currently run at. Not to flip, to have. I had 300 million influence to my name and bought 6 because being reduced to no influence whatsoever was unpalatable. That someone else makes influence off of flipping? Read the bold above. Neither I nor anyone else with less than trillions of influence cares. Being able to buy once per year at cheaper than normal? A godsend. What Snarky thinks because he has 500 packs socked away somewhere? Immaterial.

I see the issue.  I am sorry.  I hope you have learned how to earn.  Once you know how to earn the difference between 10 mil and 25 mil is an inconvenience and not a wall.

 

i did buy quite a few packs last year at 15 a pop.  I did not want to buy them the previous year.  Was feeling broke. I have invested a little time into crafting converting and selling over the last week.  Made a little over a billion.  Another 150 to convert and sell and I am done.  guessing those will net me about 600 mil?  Since they are crafted the time to convert sell will only be a few tedious freaking hours lol.  What i am saying is MAKE MONEY

 

Now, the one thing I would like to really stress is the people who are making so much off flipping the packs are not just making a little cash.  They are  in turn taking these funds and RAISING the COST of everything on the market.  Because they can now afford to burn (the money they made off the players) as much as they want as fast as they want.  To be clear, this inflation is bad, m'kay?

[Erratic1]

6 minutes ago, Snarky said:

I see the issue.  I am sorry.  I hope you have learned how to earn.  Once you know how to earn the difference between 10 mil and 25 mil is an inconvenience and not a wall.

 

Some things I am never going to do because they are simply not fun. Going to ignore the entire "learn to earn" jab and try to salvage some of the "Peace on Earth" vibe I had when I woke this morning (didn't even make it through Christmas...geesh).

 

 

[Snarky]

7 minutes ago, Erratic1 said:

 

Some things I am never going to do because they are simply not fun. Going to ignore the entire "learn to earn" jab and try to salvage some of the "Peace on Earth" vibe I had when I woke this morning (didn't even make it through Christmas...geesh).

 

 

I am sorry Erratic1  I do not enjoy the OCD hamster grind of farming or crafting either.  I was trying to do a little each day....but kept putting it off so had to finally do hundreds.  I think of it like doing squats.  Sure, it is a miserable experience the entire time.  But it feels so good when you stop!

 

I wish you a merry christmas and happy safe holidays.  Forget about old Snarky's opinions on game cash.  Go have fun!

[Sir Myshkin]

... I'm still working off packs I bought in 2020.

 

[Zect]

Personally, I'm delighted that winter packs are not discounted this year. The tears on the faces of people who were given no less than 3 years to profit off this event with no limitations whatsoever have been hilarious - truly, a wonderful Christmas gift from Homecoming.

 

In fact, the only better change would've been if the devs had announced that winter packs are permanently discounted to 15 million... on Jan 1, 2021. Not only would new players benefit going forward, the speculators' dreams of making bank would evaporate! A missed opportunity, Homecoming team.

[Player2]

45 minutes ago, Zect said:

Personally, I'm delighted that winter packs are not discounted this year. The tears on the faces of people who were given no less than 3 years to profit off this event with no limitations whatsoever have been hilarious - truly, a wonderful Christmas gift from Homecoming.

 

In fact, the only better change would've been if the devs had announced that winter packs are permanently discounted to 15 million... on Jan 1, 2021. Not only would new players benefit going forward, the speculators' dreams of making bank would evaporate! A missed opportunity, Homecoming team.

[Erratic1]

1 hour ago, Zect said:

Personally, I'm delighted that winter packs are not discounted this year. The tears on the faces of people who were given no less than 3 years to profit off this event with no limitations whatsoever have been hilarious - truly, a wonderful Christmas gift from Homecoming.

 

Because everyone knew about them from the get go and of course everyone started playing from the day Homecoming opened to the public. 🙄

[Ukase]

39 minutes ago, Erratic1 said:

 

Because everyone knew about them from the get go and of course everyone started playing from the day Homecoming opened to the public. 🙄

This is probably the single biggest statement that makes a lot of the disparity in game apparent. 

Here in these forums are many pearls of wisdom that about 90% (just a guess) of the player base may never know about. I still recall on live, this gentle soul called "Mr. Sticky" who shared with me that there were forums. I'd had no idea. I knew next to nothing about slotting. I knew next to nothing about just about everything in the game. The forums are where the real treasure can be found. How to market. How to farm. How to do just about everything in this game, depending on what your own style of fun/interest is. 

But, people are busy. Or bored. Whatever, it's just a shame that we cannot force people to read the forums and gather the extra bit of information so they could do things they'd never thought about. But then again - at least half of those people would find a lot of those ideas tedious at best. 

If I had a billion inf for each player I chatted with and shared my methods for amassing piles of influence, after which they told me that didn't sound like fun to them, I'd probably have twice as much inf as I have now. 

Making sizeable chunks of inf quickly in this game is easy. But, unless you are in a particular mood or have a certain type of personality, it's not going to be fun. The faster it is, the more tedious it probably is. Opening those winter packs...sure, it can seem like playing video poker, in a fashion. The first year, like many of you on the second year, I wasn't rolling in it. I invested ALL of the inf I had in those winter packs and darn near tripled my stockpile, meager as it was. It got me to my first Billion, and the best part was a lot of that was made before the sale was over, so I could buy even more. 

When last year hit, I had read that they very likely wouldn't sell them again for that price, so I stocked up. It was at least 1500 packs per account. I still have 500-700 packs left on each account. They're just not fun to open, or I guess I'd open 'em. I mainly do it for the boosters, because those things don't drop and reward merits are generally only for converters. 

But I recognize that not everyone gets a dopamine rush out of seeing those 10 catalysts you got from reward merits sold for 5M (the first 6 months) each. I felt rich with 50M! 
Not everyone is willing to create a second account to not only PL your alts through rough levels or setting up for Invader, Seige, Anti-matter, Shrouded, Multi-Dimensional, so each alt can get most of those passive accolades when it's convenient instead of going through the same arcs with each character. 

We're all different. But I can no more hate on people with spiffy costumes because they like them than any of those who don't like the marketing/farming game hate on me for what I like to do. The big difference though is my meta game garners me stockpiles of inf, while the other ways don't. And on HC, inf is fairly important. Not as much as live was, with the 200M+ for a single purple or 2B for a single pvp Glad Armor 3% def (All). 
So, if you want to make inf, read. Research. Review. Invest your personal time for your character. 

In the end, it's all pixels, so you have to pick your battles. You cannot take it with you. I think Snarky has the right balance of doing the minimum amount of crafting to satisfy his alts plus the odd impulse purchase to help someone out. As for me - I have huge stockpiles because I not only farmed with multiple accounts, but I also marketed. I also badged. (5 characters with all the badges, so far) I also do kill most team ups, theme teams, and a lot of other stuff. 

Everyone has to find their own way. 

[Snarky]

If you do not like crafting converting and selling I understand.  Ton of cash.  boring.  If you do not like farming.  Ditto.  

 

run a level 50.   Sell everything you get.  turn merits into converters.  (less than a minute)  sell those.  

 

If you do not enjoy level 50 activity.  YOU DO NOT NEED CASH.  Pre level 50 is owned by a decent SO build.  If you cannot afford SOs I doubt you can even read what I just read.  How would you figure out what the letters do when I change the order?

[InvaderStych]

I'm not sure I've heard or read a more jocularly condescending statement of the obvious.

 

Well played sir. 🤣

 

Can we be done here now?

 

The game basically vomits Fake Money Units at a player simply for face-rolling the keyboard anyway.

 

Edited December 26, 2022 by InvaderStych

[Seed22]

19 hours ago, Snarky said:

I fully agree.  I have been sitting on 2 billion or so for a couple years now.  It just slightly grows over time, even as I build out alt after alt.  How/Why do people think they need this much?  Then the fact they are getting that from fellow players?   there are people who will manipulate the market, screw people over just so they can say they have X amount. 

2 bils not a lot. I had 5 and within 4 50s am now down to 1.5ish.

 

 

If someone makes alts then yeah it’ll go quick. But if they’re just flipping the market to make even MORE then yeah that’s a jerk move.

 

I don’t see too much of a solution though, given that the caps already 2bil, and im not exactly going to give up -my- inf for a lower community cap because some dude sat on CoH all day and rigged the market(if that’s happening, ofc)

Edited December 26, 2022 by Seed22

[Snarky]

7 minutes ago, Seed22 said:

2 bils not a lot. I had 5 and within 4 50s am now down to 1.5ish.

 

 

If someone makes alts then yeah it’ll go quick. But if they’re just flipping the market to make even MORE then yeah that’s a jerk move.

 

I don’t see too much of a solution though, given that the caps already 2bil, and im not exactly going to give up -my- inf for a lower community cap because some dude sat on CoH all day and rigged the market(if that’s happening, ofc)

I found the key to making 2 billion infinite.  (2 billion is liquid....this part costs)  Set up a base with hundreds and hundreds of I/os.  Winter, ATO, Heals, Resists, Defenses, End Mods, ranged, mele, a bank for each type.  sometimes two banks.  Then when you make an alt pull from there.  Use the cash to buy whatever did not have in base.  If alt works great!  If it doesnt....shatter and store.

[lemming]

Ok, found the other mention about the discontinuing the sales in discord.   I think the only failure on the devs part is that they didn't hammer the explanation into the player base's heads.

 

Quote

GM Kal — 12/08/2021 6:14 PM
No conspiracy needed. The admin staff are pretty happy with where the game economy is right now. Stable.

 

The value of the contents do seem to be about 25m, though that's if you can buy enough to account for the RNG screwing with you.    And yes, having them drop to 10m or 15m means those with plenty of spare inf could profit even more.  The devs are trying to keep things a bit more stable though sometimes it seems like a precariously balanced pile of rocks.