Crossing the copyright line….

[Captain Fabulous]

23 minutes ago, Rishidian said:

It's all fun and games until Disney sends their Pitbull lawyers to shut the game down for something that is completely avoidable - with the slight price of someone getting their butt hurt/genericized.

 

It's not like it was on Live, when NCSoft was making money and Marvel sued them for copyright infringement.  Ain't nobody making money on this now, so that isn't a factor.  It also doesn't take much evacuate the City.  Just one person/company to bring a lawsuit up would probably do it, since Homecoming isn't making money on the game, and probably doesn't have the lawyers to fight it.

 

I don't care if it's inane, nor do I care if you find it irrelevant.  If it keeps the City Lights on, then it needs the greatest attention.

 

When in doubt, report it.  Let the Giant Monsters sort it out.   Probably no harm done, but may help prolong the City.

Just a quick reminder that Marvel lost that case with the judge essentially saying that as long as the devs actively remove potentially-infringing material when they find it it's all good (which they do).

I'm not saying you shouldn't report, cause you should (especially if it's a blatant ripoff), I'm just saying the odds of Disney or WB sniffing around here is super duper slim to none. The game is almost 20 years old and not-for-profit.

It's more likely that NCsoft will someday put the kibosh on this game, not Disney or WB. Hopefully that won't happen either.

[biostem]

11 minutes ago, Captain Fabulous said:

It's more likely that NCsoft will someday put the kibosh on this game, not Disney or WB.

I mean, the cat is already out of the bag - the code is out in the wild.

 

12 minutes ago, Captain Fabulous said:

Hopefully that won't happen either.

No argument on that point!

[Burnt Umber]

So, partially inspired by this topic as well as so other posts on the forum, I decided to write a guide to US IP law:

 

But, to the OP, if you see a character that's a blatant infringer, reporting them is certainly not a bad idea.

 

Also:

 

On 1/6/2023 at 7:07 PM, srmalloy said:

You can blame Disney and the Mickey Mouse Perpetual Protection Act Sonny Bono Copyright Extension Act. I don't know how the argument would hold up in court, but the way that changes to the term of copyright have been applied retroactively to works already created and under copyright would seem to me to be a violation of Article 1, § 9 and 10, which prohibit Congress and the states from passing any law that applies ex post facto. Under this reasoning, there is no impediment to passing a law extending the term of copyright, but the term of copyright for already published works wouldn't change -- if you publish a work when the copyright term is 28 years, extendible for another 28 years, then a year later Congress passes a law extending copyright to 1000 years, your work still enters the public domain a maximum of 56 years after publication.

 

 

There's a an actual case addressing this:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eldred_v._Ashcroft.

[Rishidian]

I agree.  Actually, it was found that Agents of Marvel created the characters, then tried to sue over them.  I think their point was duplicates COULD be created.  The court's verdict was something like "Yeah, And...?"

 

Anyway, thanks for keeping it civil (I fail at that sometimes). 

[Luminara]

The copyright line.

 

I'm in trouble now!

[Captain Fabulous]

32 minutes ago, Rishidian said:

Agents of Marvel

Coming this fall on Disney+?

[Snarky]

1 hour ago, Rishidian said:

I agree.  Actually, it was found that Agents of Marvel created the characters, then tried to sue over them.  I think their point was duplicates COULD be created.  The court's verdict was something like "Yeah, And...?"

 

Anyway, thanks for keeping it civil (I fail at that sometimes). 

Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D?

[biostem]

6 minutes ago, Snarky said:

Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D?

S.W.O.R.D.

[lemming]

1 hour ago, biostem said:

S.W.O.R.D.

We had a version of S.H.I.E.L.D. called S.W.O.R.D. in our champions campaign in the 80s.   With a bunch of ex-german scientists...

 

[biostem]

3 minutes ago, lemming said:

We had a version of S.H.I.E.L.D. called S.W.O.R.D. in our champions campaign in the 80s.   With a bunch of ex-german scientists...

I was more referring to this.

[lemming]

2 minutes ago, biostem said:

I was more referring to this.

I was going off on a tangent. Ours was iirc Special Weapons Ordinance Research Development

[DougGraves]

I just want to commend that my character wasn't even violating copyright laws, just public indecency rules when she was changed to Generic8008135

[Snarky]

59 minutes ago, DougGraves said:

I just want to commend that my character wasn't even violating copyright laws, just public indecency rules when she was changed to Generic8008135

But who got Generic8675309

[biostem]

2 minutes ago, Snarky said:

But who got Generic8675309

Jenny, obviously!

[Captain Fabulous]

I literally got Generic1432259 today. YAY!

Mofos got no sense of humor. 😄

[Troo]

1 hour ago, Captain Fabulous said:

got Generic1432259 today

Edited January 12, 2023 by Troo

[Bionic_Flea]

On 1/10/2023 at 9:10 PM, Herah said:

a parody of Flea

 

Careful now.  Don't make me sue you!

[tidge]

On 1/10/2023 at 10:01 PM, biostem said:

Unfortunately, a company could name themselves "Untainted Organic Blood" and put that on their label, even if none of it was true...

 

On 1/11/2023 at 6:44 AM, tidge said:

 

That would run afoul of Pharma/Biologic regulations in the USA and Europe.

 

15 hours ago, biostem said:

Yes, you're right in that specific example.  My larger point was that a company could call themselves something that implies the source or quality of their product, without said adjectives actually applying to the product in question...

 

Your example is about misbranding, and has nothing at all to do with issues of copyright/intellectual property.

Edited January 12, 2023 by tidge

[UltraAlt]

20 hours ago, Herotu said:

It's only a matter of time.

 

Let's remember, someone invented them.

 

Or told stories about them.

 

History books aren't always the complete truth. History books are the story of the victor - his story.

This goes so far as Napoleon giving out medals that he had won in Egypt. His troops had, in fact, lost.

 

If we go by current copyright laws, the copyrights would have run out on many mythological characters.

I think that there is a line that can be drawn between mythological characters and folk characters/heroes. One, for sure, is that folk heroes/characters tend to be more recent history compared to mythological characters that tend to be 1000 or more  years running with their notoriety (many of which set at +8,x8(+? - I think there is a game tweak these days to make it even higher than 8 )

Edited January 12, 2023 by UltraAlt

[Excraft]

16 hours ago, Rishidian said:

I don't care if it's inane, nor do I care if you find it irrelevant.  If it keeps the City Lights on, then it needs the greatest attention.

 

And I don't care how tightly you clench your sphincter, it's still a non-issue.  Disney/Marvel/DC/WB/HBO or any other IP holder for that matter can come after this or any other game at any time for all sorts of things, yet they don't.  If they all cared so much and wanted to so "vigorously defend their property", they'd all have legions of lawyers handing out cease and desist letters to every cosplayer walking into a con somewhere and handing out lawsuits like candy to every single game offering a free skin of Batman or Superman or Spider-Man or whomever.  They don't do it.  They've got better things to do with their time than to worry about a dinky rouge server running a stolen copy of a 20 year old game. 

 

If you want to worry yourself over it, more power to you.  Feel free.  If you're one of the aholes standing in Atlas reporting new characters as they zone in because you don't find them "original enough" for your liking, go for it.  Hope you enjoy driving more people away. 

[Rishidian]

3 hours ago, Excraft said:

 

And I don't care how tightly you clench your sphincter, it's still a non-issue.  Disney/Marvel/DC/WB/HBO or any other IP holder for that matter can come after this or any other game at any time for all sorts of things, yet they don't.  If they all cared so much and wanted to so "vigorously defend their property", they'd all have legions of lawyers handing out cease and desist letters to every cosplayer walking into a con somewhere and handing out lawsuits like candy to every single game offering a free skin of Batman or Superman or Spider-Man or whomever.  They don't do it.  They've got better things to do with their time than to worry about a dinky rouge server running a stolen copy of a 20 year old game. 

 

If you want to worry yourself over it, more power to you.  Feel free.  If you're one of the aholes standing in Atlas reporting new characters as they zone in because you don't find them "original enough" for your liking, go for it.  Hope you enjoy driving more people away. 

So much for keeping it civil 🙄

[Snarky]

3 hours ago, Excraft said:

 

And I don't care how tightly you clench your sphincter, it's still a non-issue. 

With this type of clarity I am shocked you can take time from arguing cases in front of the supreme court and help us get to the bottom of things here

 

As a “judicial aside” do you find clenching your sphincter helps?    I generally use a weight belt and focus energy from the diaphragm as a base.  I would think hemorrhoids would be an issue if you just keep clenching you sphincter?  Can you share more wisdom here?

[Troo]

Pesky rules.

 

Snips from Code of Conduct and User Agreement that anyone playing on Homecoming has agreed to:

 

Copyright Policy

Use of copyrighted characters and content without permission is not permitted when creating characters or Architect content. This includes characters and stories from intellectual property belonging to any IP that is not City of Heroes.

 

additionally:

• Don’t try to do anything you couldn’t get away with on the live servers.

• Enforcement of these rules is based on intent. If we deem that it is your intent to be breaking the rules and causing trouble, then that will be cause for action. If you unintentionally break these rules we will be far more lenient.

User Agreement

(b) If You violate the Code of Conduct then Homecoming may, in its sole and absolute discretion, terminate Your Account under Section 2(b).
(c) If You help another user of the Game violate the Code of Conduct then Homecoming may, in its sole and absolute discretion, terminate Your Account under Section 2(b).

 

2(b) Account Termination for Cause - Homecoming may delete Your Game Account, as well as any other Game Account associated with You, at any time and without warning. Any termination under this Section 2(b), as well as the timing thereof, shall be conclusively determined in the sole and absolute discretion of Homecoming. Termination of an Account under this provision does not affect any other provisions of this agreement.

 

Edited January 12, 2023 by Troo

[Excraft]

2 hours ago, Krimson said:

Yes, arrogance and hubris have worked SO well in the past for everything, might as well just continue thinking that nothing bad can happen...

 

Simple Fact: You might not believe in other people's Intellectual Property rights, but YOUR belief or lack thereof does not change the laws. We're not going to start acting like Intellectual Property and Product Identity doesn't exist because it's inconvenient, or a hassle, or because some people just have no imagination of their own. 

 

Way off.  Not even remotely close to anything I said in my post.  Nice try though.

 

Never once did I say that I don't believe in intellectual property rights or that they don't exist.  My opinion (which I'm allowed to have) is that it's such a minor chance of it becoming an issue here that would lead to an actual lawsuit is so remote, it's basically a non-issue and not worth worrying about it.  It's just not worth fussing over.  A giant asteroid could strike the earth tomorrow and wipe out every living thing on the planet.  Can it happen?  Sure.  Is it likely?  Highly unlikely.   Is it worth cowering in a corner in fear over?  Nope.  Do you have a chance of getting struck by a random bolt of lightning?  Sure.  It's not worth living in fear over though.  Same with getting sued by Disney or DC because someone made Superguy or XW0lv3r1n3X.  Like I said, they've got bigger fish to deal with and if they really wanted to, they'd hand out lawsuits to every single cosplayer at a comic con.  They don't do it because it doesn't hurt them and it keeps the interest in their property.

 

IMO the emphasized part of your post is the real issue here.  This has less to do with protecting intellectual property and "saving the game" and everything about appeasing the select few anal retentive hypocrites who want to dictate to others what is or isn't original enough of a character, costume and bio. 

 

It's perfectly fine to have the rules here on HC to cover IP rights and copyright notifications.  I've no objection to that and more power to them.  What I do object to is from what I've seen here over the last couple of years, those rules aren't applied evenly or fairly.  Not even close.  It's ok for friends of the inner circle to get away with it while everyone else is held to a different standard.  That's hypocritical and doesn't send the right message. 

 

P.S. Hubris is thinking this game is so important that its worth Disney and Marvel and DC worrying about.  It isn't.

Edited January 12, 2023 by Excraft

[Excraft]

2 hours ago, Troo said:

Use of copyrighted characters and content without permission is not permitted when creating characters or Architect content. This includes characters and stories from intellectual property belonging to any IP that is not City of Heroes.

 

This is great.  When will it be applied the same for everyone?  You may recall, we've been in threads where there seemed to be "exceptions" to this rule which don't get applied to everyone.