Pricing of Winter and Hero Packs

[Snarky]

I suggest lowering the price of Winter and Hero (erm VILLIAN) packs permanently.  This is brought up as a way to help casual (but great and appreciated) players who have no interest in farming or marketing to still be able to create good builds in a reasonable time frame.  
 

I am sure this will devolve, evolve, and revolve.   I want you folks to know… you turn me right round baby right round like a merry go round…. As much as possible please keep the topic focused narrowly on the good/bad of lowering these prices to help newer/less grind inclined players. Of particular interest to me is if anyone has a numerical valuation of reward merits/influence/Winter pack/Hero pack that would illuminate the topic

 

This thread is posted with all seriousness and good intentions.   As a starting point of conversation I suggest 10 mil for Winter packs and 5 mil for Villian/Hero packs.  

[SeraphimKensai]

Since reward merits to ATOs or Winters have the same cost, why not have the packs have the same cost and equalize their pricing over time on the market.

 

Since the Hero/Villain packs can have multiple ATOs in then I think the 10 million price is realistically reasonable. The same is true with Winter Packs.

 

Keeping the price to 10 mil would prevent the price of resold IOs from them from bottoming it out, but also give a reasonable bubble for some to play the market.

[Spaghetti Betty]

That much of a price cut seems a little extreme. I think 10 mil is fine for H/V packs. You can sell 1 crafted purple and be able to afford 1 pack. Then if you want, you could turn around and sell everything in that pack for potentially 1.5x what you bought it for. Lady Luck be kind.

 

If anything, I could see Winter packs being decreased by 5 mil. 20 mil seems like a better number to me. And you have to keep in mind that the enhancements coming out of these bad boys are designed to ascend your toon to new heights (massive +DEF bonuses, Slow Resistance, etc.) rather than enhance core gameplay. For that I think it's ok that they're harder to come by.

[Luminara]

What's your proposal for maintaining the economy when pack prices are reduced?  They're the largest inf* sinks in the game and provide a significant stabilization effect on the economy.  They can't simply be price-slashed without a corresponding sink of equivalent value and expected use.  So what are you going to sell, and be certain people will buy, to compensate?

[lemming]

8 minutes ago, Luminara said:

What's your proposal for maintaining the economy when pack prices are reduced?  They're the largest inf* sinks in the game and provide a significant stabilization effect on the economy.  They can't simply be price-slashed without a corresponding sink of equivalent value and expected use.  So what are you going to sell, and be certain people will buy, to compensate?

I think it will be self stabilized.   I wouldn't drop the Super packs and have the Winter packs at 10.  

[Snarky]

10 minutes ago, Luminara said:

What's your proposal for maintaining the economy when pack prices are reduced?  They're the largest inf* sinks in the game and provide a significant stabilization effect on the economy.  They can't simply be price-slashed without a corresponding sink of equivalent value and expected use.  So what are you going to sell, and be certain people will buy, to compensate?

While I have a good grasp on mathematics, I understand crap about the market.  Explains why my coffin sits in this dump really...

 

My BELIEF....is that those holding 1bil, 10 bil, 100bil, 1000000000bil influence....will not change much about what they do.  I know one personally.  They hoard.  They will change a bit of their tedious money making gambits sure.  But they will just hoard.   Still.

 

The GOAL... as stated, is that those with less interest in grinding the game will be able, after a reasonable period, to afford these items.  I am currently itting on 3-4 bil liquid and a base filled with goodies.  I do not consider myself well off.  I know a whale.  They are well off.  My game play will not change.  i have about 300 Winters in my base and 200 Heros.  and honestly, the Winters are very situationally useful in builds.  Rarely OMG except for a few Tanks and Brutes.

 

 

[kelika2]

after seeing epic recipes and such go down to 3-4m i can see this price adjustment being a thing

less players over time is natural for old MMO projects

[Spaghetti Betty]

10 minutes ago, Snarky said:

and honestly, the Winters are very situationally useful in builds.  Rarely OMG except for a few Tanks and Brutes

I read this. I laugh. And then I run away through 20 stacks of Caltrops.

[Snarky]

2 minutes ago, Spaghetti Betty said:

I read this. I laugh. And then I run away through 20 stacks of Caltrops.

I use fly on almost every build.  You say there are Clatrops down there?  And you invested how much in winter packs so they do not bother you?  Fascinating....

[Spaghetti Betty]

2 minutes ago, Snarky said:

I use fly on almost every build.  You say there are Clatrops down there?  And you invested how much in winter packs so they do not bother you?  Fascinating....

Flying is overrated. I'll be here on the ground stompin' in my Air Force 1s at mach speed, never letting the enemy dictate how fast I click my powers.

[TheZag]

I think your first pack can be at a discount and the more you buy will increase the price.  If you buy more than 4 in a 72 hour period,  all your inf gets drained across your entire account.  Clearly this is the way to achieve balance.

 

[UltraAlt]

5 hours ago, SeraphimKensai said:

Since reward merits to ATOs or Winters have the same cost, why not have the packs have the same cost and equalize their pricing over time on the market.

 

Since the Hero/Villain packs can have multiple ATOs in then I think the 10 million price is realistically reasonable. The same is true with Winter Packs.

 

Keeping the price to 10 mil would prevent the price of resold IOs from them from bottoming it out, but also give a reasonable bubble for some to play the market.

 

To me, the main superiority of the Winter Packs is the Snow Beast Summons, Frosty Aegis, Frost Bite, and Winter Ward. 

The other packs don't have rewards of this caliber.

[Zect]

10 hours ago, Snarky said:

This is brought up as a way to help casual (but great and appreciated) players who have no interest in farming or marketing to still be able to create good builds in a reasonable time frame.

 

First of all: I commend you for actually attempting to elucidate the problem your proposed change will solve. We must correctly identify the issue at hand, then only are we able to proceed towards finding a solution.

 

However, I don't think discounts on super packs will help in the way you think it will - even though I have no objection against the idea. If they are discounted, the supply of the things in them goes up and the value of the things in them correspondingly goes down. Ultimately buying super packs will be little more profitable than it is right now, at least as far as helping less-grindy players goes.

 

I think that you really need to look at the root of the problem, which is that 99% of the fucking game is not rewarding enough. For an illustration of what I mean, just look at the rates for merit rewards. Per i25 patch notes, merit rewards for all content are standardized at a rate of 20 merits/hour. This is what SCoRE, and hence by extension Homecoming team, thinks is fair for you to earn. FYI, that's a pitiful 4 million inf/hour at current market prices. This is why people have always turned to things like farming and marketing, because nobody wants to earn currency in the game at this rate. The game does not dispense dopamine frequently or reliably enough.

 

For starters, I propose increasing the merit reward rate tenfold, to 200 merits/hour, with a floor of 50 merits for any TF's that award less than that. Yes, you read that right, 200. That's roughly the rate that a decent tinpex team can manage (tinpex gives empyreans and i-salvage too, but we can leave that alone since they are not leveling TF's), so there really should be no problem extending this to the rest of the game. This way, you can log in, do whatever for an hour and and come out of it with the majority of a rare set. You can hop on a TF, any TF, and come out with at least enough merits to buy a single rare. That sounds very fair to me.

 

Rewards in this game have always been the most puzzling aspect of it to me. What's the point of making me login all three of my fire farming brutes so I can triplebox afk farm or get 3x merits from soloing a TF? It seems like a weird half-measure - as though the developers don't really like multiboxing but cannot afford to offend the multiboxers too much. What does me creating 3 accounts and logging them all in really add to the game experience? Why not just triple the droprate and ban multiboxing?

[Snarky]

Fascinating Zect!  Thank you. This is part of a good discussion.  Honestly I blanched a bit at such a huge change.  Now I am sitting here asking myself why?   I know one serious money maker.  I suspect they would be unhappy that they “worked” for their infinite sums and now peeps can do it for easy.  Like working out for ten years then someone develops a pill that builds muscle like a gorilla.  You worked for yours!   Maybe an increase like this would work, but not as extreme?  Honestly I hoard merits and only use them to buy converters.  Think I have about 20,000 sitting around

[srmalloy]

6 hours ago, Zect said:

For starters, I propose increasing the merit reward rate tenfold, to 200 merits/hour, with a floor of 50 merits for any TF's that award less than that.

And what do you expect that this will accomplish? With 10x the number of merits available, the people who use large numbers of convertors to change cheap IOs into the expensive ones will be able to acquire all the convertors they need from their own activities, tanking the value of convertors on the AH. So what you're looking for is making it easy for the farmers, while screwing over the players who don't farm. And with no longer being able to acquire the inf through convertor sales to buy the set IOs they need, players will take their increased stash of merits and turn to the merit vendors to buy the recipes for the sets they want, tanking the value of IOs on the AH, which means that the people doing IO conversion to put the desired sets up on the AH will see their income tank as well. In the long run, after an extended period of volatility in the AH, prices for IOs will stabilize at a lower level, with only the farmers coming out ahead in the changes.

[Yomo Kimyata]

I ask this in all seriousness:  why not copy the tools from Test server to the regular servers so that you can get everything you want instantly and for free?

[UltraAlt]

11 minutes ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

I ask this in all seriousness:  why not copy the tools from Test server to the regular servers so that you can get everything you want instantly and for free?

 

But... but... that would ruin my Market PVP.

It's the best PVP in City of Heroes!

 

[lemming]

Increasing the number of merits given would probably make farming less lucrative, at least via AE.  They'd probably turn to some other activity that rewards merits, and there are some arcs that can be completed quickly.

 

On the worry that prices would drop across the board, I think that's the point.

[srmalloy]

14 minutes ago, lemming said:

On the worry that prices would drop across the board, I think that's the point.

The problem is the order in which the prices drop. If the people doing IO conversion for sale can acquire the convertors they need easily from their own play, that tanks the value of convertors without putting any pressure on IO prices, so they have no incentive not to list them for the same prices they are now. Only after the rest of the player base, unable to make enough from convertor sales to pay the unchanged IO costs, turn to directly buying recipes from the merit vendors, leaving the people doing conversion sales with unsold inventory clogging their AH slots, will they have any reason to lower prices. And with the sunk cost of listing items in the AH, any general price decline will be sporadic until enough people get convinced that they're not going to sell at the current listed price, and take them back to relist, accepting the loss of the listing fee. So the decline in IO prices will be slow and extended, while the drop in income will be sharp and quick. Leaving the people with billions in inf sitting fat and happy while the rest of us scrape to get by in comparison.