Damage Meter

[_NOPE_]

Appropriate: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance

[Transhumanish]

AT NO POINT. Did I call someone a "carebear" or some other belittling word. I described the PhiloticKnights attitude to the game as lackadaisical, as in carefree. This wasn't an insult, it was a true description of his attitude to grouping with others and the game in general where he has no real preference or restrictions (well actually, he does - no hardcore audience please). The irony is this is less tolerant than my approach to the game, which is let others do as they wish, rather than forcing people together.

 

Lackadaisical is taken as an insult because it does not mean "carefree"; carefree is not, in fact, a part of any definition of the word whatsoever. Lackadaisical means: "lacking enthusiasm and determination; carelessly lazy" (Oxford), or, "lacking enthusiasm and effort" (Cambridge), or "lacking life, spirit, or zest; languid" (Merriam-Webster), or, "without interest, vigor, or determination; listless; lethargic; lazy; indolent" (Dictionary.com, ironically the most brutal of the bunch). And has no common usage that is anything but negative; every example across the board of usage of the word in every source is an insult or demeaning in nature.

 

So "lackadaisical" is an insulting word, full stop. There is no kind or even neutral definition of the word. At all. So yeah, actually, people will not take kindly to being called lazy, or lacking enthusiasm, or having no life or spirit to them, and so on. Whether or not that was your intent, your word choice was highly insulting in nature.

[jubakumbi]

So when you make a group, and explicitly state you're looking for competent players to join you for some challenging content, and someone joins who has no intention of trying their best, the people who made an honest group and appealed for other likeminded players to join them, are now jerks, bad people etc, and all the other insults you have nastily conjured.

 

I showed my opinion in this thread. And I haven't been shown any consideration honestly. People were trollish, antagonistic and even just calling me a bad person.

 

AT NO POINT. Did I call someone a "carebear" or some other belittling word. I described the PhiloticKnights attitude to the game as lackadaisical, as in carefree. This wasn't an insult, it was a true description of his attitude to grouping with others and the game in general where he has no real preference or restrictions (well actually, he does - no hardcore audience please). The irony is this is less tolerant than my approach to the game, which is let others do as they wish, rather than forcing people together.

 

First off, this community typically just yells out for groups with the min level requirements.

The whole concept you bring of 'asking for competent players' is simply not one that is seen here a lot.

Like any grouping of humans, if you don't like the group make up, etc., dropping and reforming is an option.

Kicking a player out of a group is not something that is common to me, but I understand that's how some people view the world and I know sometimes players are activly trying to troll a group in some way.

 

What I am trying to convey is that taking any of these actions, in this community, over a player 'not DPSing enough' as a kickable/shunnable/non-grouping issue is generally against the grain.

Not the idea of kicking a teammate that is not working well with the team, but the idea of removing a player over DPS, in this game, where DPS means jack-shit, simply runs counter to the spirit of this game for most of it's players.

 

I rail against Hall Monitors and Busy Bodies of all types.

The community around this game, as much as they disagree on specifics, is based on people freely grouping, playing the game relaxing.

 

The DPS meters and the uses you outline from the get-go, run couter to the general nature of this community.

This community sees kicking players over perceived lack of DPS as a jerk move and will treat anyone promoting that idea as a jerk for that reason.

 

I have known many gamers personally that have the attitude on this you do, right now, that played CoH for a while and realized what I am talking about...this game does not work like FF or WoW or Invictus or Fortnite.

Also, these same gamers, now 10+ years later, play more like I do and the CoH crowd does and no longer views 'playing an MMO' as something that they should working toward becoming more competent at to impress other players so they can get groups.

 

You are entitled to your opinion/outlook on DPS meters and the playstyle around them.

We are entitled equally to have differeing opinions that run directly counter to yours.

 

Data and experience show me that the gaming style you advocate with DPS meters is not welcome in CoH.

[ChzBoi]

Am I really wrong for that? Is that bad?

 

Yes, you are. Because pretendy fun time games.

 

So, you outright judge others and belittle them, because some people happen to enjoy gaming in a serious way or as a dedicated hobby, rather than your lackadaisical and carefree attitude towards the game? I don't understand how you can take this stance. Don't you see your hypocrisy? You criticize me for not "being a good sport" presumably and grouping with "casual players" (I don't like that term as I have no stigma towards casual players, but regardless) but then you say it's outright wrong to play in a manner where someone might care about efficiency.

.........

 

For this community, we see that as elitist, exclusionist and just plain old mean, jerk behaviour.

 

Why should we treat people who are being jerks like anything other than jerks?

+1 sums it up perfectly ....again /JRanger

[Saikochoro]

For years, playing COH, one of the best plugs I could make for the game was to describe with horror what I'd seen in other games where people's clicks were tracked by their peers.  The drama, the whining, the meanness, the pin-headed focus on "statistics uber alles" tore apart friendships, depopulated guilds and collapsed communities.  The absence of such tools in COH was wonderful and the playerbase as a whole was blessedly free of such things.

 

These tools corrupt.  Even in my group of gaming friends, who prided themselves on being nice and patent with beginners to the point that our unofficial motto was "play nice and show some class," I saw people use these tools in WoW and Guild Wars to suggest kicking out "underperforming" friends.

 

So, uh, pleeeease don't.  Even when used with the best of intentions, such tools are bad for the game and worse for the people who play it.  And they are seldom used with the best of intentions.

 

Sums up my thoughts nicely. I think it would take away a lot of the beauty and fun of COH and the various combos you can create.

[khy]

You know what actually WOULD be kind of nice?

 

A separate pop-up 'Team Effects' window that you could click on that would show relative defense, resist, damage, tohit, and speed buffs on your teammates in the form of bars going across. So you can see at a glance which of your teammates are being hit by slows because their speed bar has suddenly fallen into the negative, or if two teammates are low on health you can see if one of them has been debuffed and is therefor more likely to die, and prioritize heals on them. No actual numbers relating to damage/heal, so no judging your team, but something akin to the 'Totals' tab within Mids/Pines.

 

Or so when you're in a group with FF, Ice, Thermal, AND sonic you can all look at the completely capped out defense and resists and feel a sense of pride and superiority as you completely massacre everything while hardly taking a scratch of damage.

 

I think it'd be neat to see a bar where, say, when I'm buffed with bubbles I see a green bar that indicates the strength of my defense boosts and when I fight some enemies that debuff my defense I can see how far it's dropped, and judge whether or not I should pop a luck or something.

[HelenCarnate]

I would like to see a test dummy. Something with parameters we could set to figure out effective attack chains. Set number of hp and regen rates and resists and figure out the best chain of attacks without having to run a spreadsheet.

[Adeon Hawkwood]

I would like to see a test dummy. Something with parameters we could set to figure out effective attack chains. Set number of hp and regen rates and resists and figure out the best chain of attacks without having to run a spreadsheet.

Well the pylon challenge was popular with scrappers back in the day (how long does it take to kill a Rikti pylon). There are also test dummies in the RWZ.

[Oubliette_Red]

So when you make a group, and explicitly state you're looking for competent players to join you for some challenging content, and someone joins who has no intention of trying their best, the people who made an honest group and appealed for other likeminded players to join them, are now jerks, bad people etc, and all the other insults you have nastily conjured.

 

I showed my opinion in this thread. And I haven't been shown any consideration honestly. People were trollish, antagonistic and even just calling me a bad person.

 

AT NO POINT. Did I call someone a "carebear" or some other belittling word. I described the PhiloticKnights attitude to the game as lackadaisical, as in carefree. This wasn't an insult, it was a true description of his attitude to grouping with others and the game in general where he has no real preference or restrictions (well actually, he does - no hardcore audience please). The irony is this is less tolerant than my approach to the game, which is let others do as they wish, rather than forcing people together.

 

First off, this community typically just yells out for groups with the min level requirements.

The whole concept you bring of 'asking for competent players' is simply not one that is seen here a lot.

Like any grouping of humans, if you don't like the group make up, etc., dropping and reforming is an option.

Kicking a player out of a group is not something that is common to me, but I understand that's how some people view the world and I know sometimes players are activly trying to troll a group in some way.

 

What I am trying to convey is that taking any of these actions, in this community, over a player 'not DPSing enough' as a kickable/shunnable/non-grouping issue is generally against the grain.

Not the idea of kicking a teammate that is not working well with the team, but the idea of removing a player over DPS, in this game, where DPS means jack-shit, simply runs counter to the spirit of this game for most of it's players.

 

I rail against Hall Monitors and Busy Bodies of all types.

The community around this game, as much as they disagree on specifics, is based on people freely grouping, playing the game relaxing.

 

The DPS meters and the uses you outline from the get-go, run couter to the general nature of this community.

This community sees kicking players over perceived lack of DPS as a jerk move and will treat anyone promoting that idea as a jerk for that reason.

 

I have known many gamers personally that have the attitude on this you do, right now, that played CoH for a while and realized what I am talking about...this game does not work like FF or WoW or Invictus or Fortnite.

Also, these same gamers, now 10+ years later, play more like I do and the CoH crowd does and no longer views 'playing an MMO' as something that they should working toward becoming more competent at to impress other players so they can get groups.

 

You are entitled to your opinion/outlook on DPS meters and the playstyle around them.

We are entitled equally to have differeing opinions that run directly counter to yours.

 

Data and experience show me that the gaming style you advocate with DPS meters is not welcome in CoH.

 

+1 inf

[BelleSorciere]

The only good tracker ever was Herostats, and that so you could test your own character's performance, look for bugs or poorly documented powers (like the time Touch of Fear accidentally buffed to-hit instead of debuffing it). There's no real reason to have a meter to track everyone's performance in a team or trial, and the game isn't really geared that way. Plus there are multiple variables that might make one character look far more effective than another when they might not, without buffs and debuffs, be all that far apart.

 

Plus, the closest things CoH has to, say, WoW raids are significantly easier and take less time.

[MrAxe]

Dear god no. This happened in Monster Hunter World and players got abuse for not being 100% effective. I don't want that here.

[nihilii]

Siding with the "no" bandwagon. Even though I love stats, and I love watching other people's stats as well.

 

Why no, then?

 

Because the only thing DPS meters do is enable elitism for wanna-be elitists.

 

It's pretty easy to judge your teammates' contribution as is, if you open your eyes - and have decent knowledge of the game mechanics.

 

If you can't tell, then you're not as good as you could be at the game yourself.

 

So let's think about it...

 

Maybe your teammate is a "3" on a hypothetical performance scale. But if you're a "5" yourself, what's easier?

 

Improving your own performance, which you have full control over?

 

Or trying to get the rest of the world to change? Or is it kicking players for not meeting some arbitrary standard, wasting time finding "the right fit"?

 

First step of minmaxing properly is to leave your ego behind. No performance to be found in treating other players poorly.

[Impulse]

A definite no from me.

 

While the thought behind a damage meter is all well and good, not everyone shares the same train of thought, and in 99% of the cases a damage meter is introduced to a game, elitism and toxicity is brought along with it. Don't need that here. The game is about having fun with other players without having to worry about how well you're performing, and worrying that you might not be taken along for the ride if others see that you might not perform the way they want you to perform.

 

I've seen just how bad things can get when a damage meter is introduced to a game and it's never a good thing, no matter how novel the idea.

[GamerKate]

Am I really wrong for that? Is that bad?

 

Yes, you are. Because pretendy fun time games.

 

So, you outright judge others and belittle them, because some people happen to enjoy gaming in a serious way or as a dedicated hobby, rather than your lackadaisical and carefree attitude towards the game? I don't understand how you can take this stance. Don't you see your hypocrisy? You criticize me for not "being a good sport" presumably and grouping with "casual players" (I don't like that term as I have no stigma towards casual players, but regardless) but then you say it's outright wrong to play in a manner where someone might care about efficiency.

 

There are two sets of people here:

1. The anti-counters

2. The pro-counters

 

There are two options:

A. We have DPS counters

B. We don’t have DPS counters.

 

If we have A:

Group 1 gets their game wrecked (because it doesn’t mater how awesome DPS counters made your games of WoW or whatever, for dirty casuals like me they suck ass.

Group 2 is joyful.

 

If we have B:

Group 1 is joyful

Group 2 can still get what they want - Uber teams of DPS dealers who don’t slack off. How? By interacting with human beings and not teaming with people you don’t trust to pull their weight.

 

Like, if there was a ‘fun’ counter in the game, I’d still rather decide for myself rather than team with a silent stranger just because a number over their head told me they were dropping 11,000 Funs p/s

 

Find a good SG, team with other folk who are like you, people who want to contribute their best towards a challenge, and you can also improve your skills at assessing human nature instead of relying on a bunch of numbers.

 

MCM 

[jubakumbi]

Like, if there was a ‘fun’ counter in the game, I’d still rather decide for myself rather than team with a silent stranger just because a number over their head told me they were dropping 11,000 Funs p/s

 

Now wait a minute!

 

A meter to tell us how many Funs Per Second we get!?!?

That is a fabulous idea!

How else could I possibly know how many Funs I am having without an accurate counter?

How else would I know if I am spending my valuable time playing the game properly?

And how how else would I be able to tell others how to have the right number of Funs?

 

We need this Funs Per Second meter, we need it now!

[EggKookoo]

We need this Funs Per Second meter, we need it now!

 

+1

 

This is the kind of stuff I hang out with the CoH community to see.

[deadscrapper]

I've always had mixed feelings about damage meters in this game - primarily because they only collect one piece of data and unless you really collect a lot of ancillary data about team make up, the data isn't really useful except for bragging rights. With an 8 person team there are just so many buff and debuff combinations possible that the numbers don't mean much in and of themselves.

[Sunrunner]

challenging content

 

I'm beginning to suspect you play a different version of the game than I do because, honestly, this ...?  Doesn't exist in COH.  DPS isn't the appropriate tool for such a thing even if it did exist; (de)buffs are.  Multiplicative is superior to Additive when you are chasing bigger numbers.

[ChzBoi]

We need this Funs Per Second meter, we need it now!

 

+1

 

This is the kind of stuff I hang out with the CoH community to see.

 

+1 but we would also need an "UnFuns Per Second meter"...UPS......some people need to know exactly how much fun they are not having....

[jubakumbi]

+1 but we would also need an "UnFuns Per Second meter"...UPS......some people need to know exactly how much fun they are not having....

 

And years later we can all bemoan the Great De-Funning Patches....

[ChzBoi]

+1 but we would also need an "UnFuns Per Second meter"...UPS......some people need to know exactly how much fun they are not having....

 

And years later we can all bemoan the Great De-Funning Patches....

 

+1....as I LOL at my office desk....I so missed this game and community....

[EggKookoo]

Seriously, I propose we get a Fun Meter in the game, and it randomly increases regardless of what you're doing.

[jubakumbi]

Seriously, I propose we get a Fun Meter in the game, and it randomly increases regardless of what you're doing.

Would be hilarious.

Especially with 'settings'...

 

Preferences, check all that apply:

• Large Groups
  Small Groups
  Min Maxers
  Righteous Indignation
  Build Nazis
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• 
  

 

[ChzBoi]

Seriously, I propose we get a Fun Meter in the game, and it randomly increases regardless of what you're doing.

 

"...but...I'm not having as much fun as you - my meter says so!" ...."I was kicked from a team for having too much fun!"............what a wonderful can-o-worms......

[justicebeliever]

Seriously, I propose we get a Fun Meter in the game, and it randomly increases regardless of what you're doing.

Would be hilarious.

Especially with 'settings'...

 

Preferences, check all that apply:

• Large Groups
  Small Groups
  Min Maxers
  Righteous Indignation
  Build Nazis
  Current Number of Different Costume Parts On Screen
  KB Procs
   
  
• 
  

 

+1 to this suggestion!