Scrapper taunt - give buff based on rank of enemy taunted

[DougGraves]

Taunt is fairly worthless on a scrapper.  It would be nice to make it worth taking.

 

Victory Rush has different levels of effect depending on the rank of the enemy you use it on - minion through AV.

 

So it would be cool if scrapper taunt provided a buff to the scrapper based on the rank of the enemy you use it on.  The buff could vary by powerset.

 

So scrappers would take taunt and then taunt the highest rank enemy around to get the biggest buff.

[megaericzero]

Interesting idea.

 

It might cause unintended behavior, though. Imagine a tanker (or brute?) genuinely trying to keep aggro but the scrapper keeps taunting the AV because they refuse to be any amount less than maximum buff in whatever stat is being boosted.

 

And then, on the flip side, if we avoid the above by having it not stack with itself and last long enough that it only needs to be cast every once in a while, it's just adding a chore for the scrapper - press the confront button every x seconds or else be missing your free buff.

[Sakura Tenshi]

While it might require new animations for the 'taunt', I've been of the mindset of just turning the scrapper taunt into a ranged attack, a foe teleport, or gap closer/self-teleport. It gains some extra utility, a maybe minor to moderate damage, and catches the aggro of what it hits. Unfortunately, last time I shared this idea, people shot it down for being too wild or making scrapper taunt a 'must-have' than a skip power.

Edited January 24, 2023 by Sakura Tenshi

[UltraAlt]

Scrappers don't get taunt. Taunt is a Tanker power.

Scrappers get a single-target Confront/Warrior's Challenge/Calling the Wolf/etc. that that has a taunt-like affect. (Works like Presence>Challenge)

 

Scrapper>Primary Power Set>Confront/Warrior's Challenge/Calling the Wolf/etc.

"Challenges a foe to attack you. Useful to pull a villain off an ally who finds themselves in over their head. A To Hit check is required to Taunt enemy players, but is not needed against critter targets." - https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Energy_Melee#Confront (as an example, but the wording is the same on all Scrapper primary power sets for their Confront/Warrior's Challenge/Calling the Wolf/etc)

 

Presence>Challenge

"Challenges a foe to attack you. Use this to pull a foe off of an ally in trouble or away from a mob of foes. Not as effective as a typical Scrapper Confront and Challenge powers. An Accuracy check is required to successfully Challenge a target." - https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Presence#Challenge

 

Scrapper>Primary Power Set>Confront/Warrior's Challenge/Calling the Wolf/etc. works best with range enhancement(s) [since it doesn't require a To Hit check versus non-PVP enemies] so you can use it to pull a single foe out of a mob to attack you.

 

If you see a squishy being attacked, Scrapper>Primary Power Set>Confront/Warrior's Challenge/Calling the Wolf/etc. is powerful enough to agro that target and force them to attack you instead of the squishy.

 

If you are a scrapper and want to agro more than one enemy at time then use Presence>Provoke (https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Presence#Provoke).  This does require a To Hit check, so you can somewhat regulate how many you agro by your ACC slotting. But again, this isn't as powerful as a Tanker taunt.

 

These taunt-like powers are not as powerful as a Tanker Taunt. They are not meant to be. Tanks are meant to be the Taunt King.

You can, however, slot up these non-tanker taunt-like powers with Threat (Taunt/Placate) Enhancements.

 

 

Edited January 24, 2023 by UltraAlt
are not

[Rudra]

Confront (vs Taunt) is a useful ability to help pry an enemy of a squishy ally if you are already embroiled in a furball with other foes or for isolating targets. It is not a constant use power. It is not a 'open every fight with' power. And on teams, it is a niche power. However, it is only as worthless a power as how players choose to view or use it.

 

My Scrappers take their respective version of Confront either to try and pull a runner back into the fight (which is less than effective given current mob flee mechanics), to try and pull smaller numbers of mobs to me out of the suicide zone (bad map positioning), or in case I'm running with a friend who is on a character that may on occasion need me to yank mobs off him or her. So, not useless.

 

Edit: If you want to make it better? Make it override mob flee mechanics.

 

Edit again: And never, ever make it a gap closer. The last thing I want if I go to draw a mob off a friend, is to lead the other mobs I'm already fighting over to said friend.

Edited January 24, 2023 by Rudra
Edited to correct a comma to a period.

[Aracknight]

I like the idea of a ranged attack.  I think AE custom designed scrappers get some form of ranged attack built into them to not be useless against fliers.  Martial Arts gets a shuriken throw i think, for example.  Weave that in to PC scrappers and give it a confront component and I think it'd be cool.

 

Let it slot either threat or ranged damage sets.  Groovy.

Edited January 24, 2023 by Aracknight

[twozerofoxtrot]

3 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

Presence>Challenge

"Challenges a foe to attack you. Use this to pull a foe off of an ally in trouble or away from a mob of foes. Not as effective as a typical Scrapper Confront and Challenge powers. An Accuracy check is required to successfully Challenge a target." - https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Presence#Challenge

 

 

 

Challenge doesn't exist anymore.

 

From the link you provided:

[Luminara]

Make it a debuff and call them scrapper taints.

[Rudra]

57 minutes ago, Aracknight said:

I like the idea of a ranged attack.  I think AE custom designed scrappers get some form of ranged attack built into them to not be useless against fliers.  Martial Arts gets a shuriken throw i think, for example.  Weave that in to PC scrappers and give it a confront component and I think it'd be cool.

 

Let it slot either threat or ranged damage sets.  Groovy.

"Scrappers need ranged attacks to deal with fliers!"

 

Blaze Mastery: Char, Ring of Fire, Fire Blast, Melt Armor, Fireball.

Body Mastery: Laser Beam Eyes, Torrent.

Darkness Mastery: Petrifying Gaze, Torrent, Dark Blast, Night Fall, Tenebrous Tentacles.

Leviathan Mastery: Spirit Shark, Water Spout (if you count pets), Spirit Shark Jaws, Summon Guardian (if you count pets).

Mace Mastery: Mace Beam, Mace Blast, Disruptor Blast, Web Coccoon, Summon Spiderlings (if you count pets).

Mu Mastery: Mu Bolts, Zapp, Ball Lightning, Electric Shackles, Summon Adept (if you count pets).

Soul Mastery: Dark Blast, Moonbeam, Soul Storm, Summon Widow (if you count pets).

Weapon Mastery: Caltrops, Web Grenade, Shuriken, Exploding Shuriken.

 

Those are all APP/PPP choices and you don't want to wait that long?

 

Experimentation: Toxic Dart, Corrosive Vial.

Force of Will: Project Will, Weaken Resolve (doesn't do damage though), Wall of Force.

Gadgetry: (Not yet available.)

Sorcery: Arcane Bolt.

 

Edit: AE mobs get 0 pool picks. And even their Scrapper builds don't get any ranged attacks added to their sets. Though, you can blend a ranged set with a melee set for your melee AE enemy.

Edited January 25, 2023 by Rudra
Edited to add missed "e" to "Tenebrous".

[Aracknight]

8 minutes ago, Rudra said:

"Scrappers need ranged attacks to deal with fliers!"

 

Blaze Mastery: Char, Ring of Fire, Fire Blast, Melt Armor, Fireball.

Body Mastery: Laser Beam Eyes, Torrent.

Darkness Mastery: Petrifying Gaze, Torrent, Dark Blast, Night Fall, Tenebrous Tentacles.

Leviathan Mastery: Spirit Shark, Water Spout (if you count pets), Spirit Shark Jaws, Summon Guardian (if you count pets).

Mace Mastery: Mace Beam, Mace Blast, Disruptor Blast, Web Coccoon, Summon Spiderlings (if you count pets).

Mu Mastery: Mu Bolts, Zapp, Ball Lightning, Electric Shackles, Summon Adept (if you count pets).

Soul Mastery: Dark Blast, Moonbeam, Soul Storm, Summon Widow (if you count pets).

Weapon Mastery: Caltrops, Web Grenade, Shuriken, Exploding Shuriken.

 

Those are all APP/PPP choices and you don't want to wait that long?

 

Experimentation: Toxic Dart, Corrosive Vial.

Force of Will: Project Will, Weaken Resolve (doesn't do damage though), Wall of Force.

Gadgetry: (Not yet available.)

Sorcery: Arcane Bolt.

Oh good, Rudra is here to shit on all our ideas.  I notice you didn't quote Sakura who first suggested the ranged attack idea that i merely liked and played off of.  Is it personal?  Did I bang your significant other?  Do you want me to?

[Rudra]

I didn't notice it in @Sakura Tenshi's comment. I focused on the gap closer bit. I was providing ranged attack options for Scrappers. Scrappers have them.

 

Edit: And if a foe teleport option is desired? Teleport Other.

 

Edit again: Also? "Did I bang your significant other?  Do you want me to?"

Leave my personal life out of your responses. Debate my posts all you want. That is what a forum is about after all. Stay out of my personal life though.

Edited January 25, 2023 by Rudra

[Sakura Tenshi]

@Rudra
Because we can only pick so many power pools for one. Two is because it helps create a sense of disparity and AT uniqueness even when using the same powersets. Three is to increase function and utility of a largely unused and oftentimes unselected power and further encourage build variety. Four is that such changes wouldn't necessarily displace powers like shield charge/lightning rod (they're simply stronger and are AoEs) or create a 'tank mage' issue (the ranged attacks would be just not enough to stand as a ranged attack chain on its own). Lastly it could be a chance to fill out some conceptual gaps in powersets, like electric melee pulling in enemies with electro magnetism, katana doing a very anime air cutter slash, or broadsword and claws getting a charging rush attack.

[Rudra]

Please explain how converting Confront to a gap closer (which would take away the power's usefulness to players like me), replacing it with a ranged attack, or making it a teleport foe would create a sense of disparity or encourage build variety?

 

Look, if you want to add a damage component to Confront, I am not a fan of that, but at least I would still have my Confront power. Replacing it with a gap closer completely kills my uses for the power. And as for a teleport foe effect, it doesn't make sense for the sets' themes. (Edit: Sets where it does make sense like Electric Melee? Already have their teleport to foe powers. However, no current set makes sense for a teleport to you power.)

 

Edit again: I'm willing to bet that adding a damage component (outside of a slotted proc) would have the devs take away the autohit functionality of Confront. And the autohit is a major selling point to me. Friend in trouble? I am guaranteed to taunt the target. How the target reacts? Not so much. I will take that authohit over damage any day of the week.

Edited January 25, 2023 by Rudra

[UltraAlt]

2 hours ago, twozerofoxtrot said:

 

 

Challenge doesn't exist anymore.

 

From the link you provided:

 

I apologize. I didn't see it had been moved to the "Historical section". Which, if you use the link that I provided, is off the top of the screen. I just started from the power name down.

 

But now I do recall getting Presence powers after the chang and being a bit miffed that I had to get the AoE Provoke instead of Challenge. Challenge (single-target) is much more useful for a non-tanker. Not so miffed that I bothered commenting, but I was focused on testing other stuff in that release and didn't notice it.

 

Edited January 25, 2023 by UltraAlt

[TheZag]

Confront on a scrapper is pointless as a power pick to me.  Its meant to pull an enemy off an ally in trouble when i can use any of my attacks to gain agro on that enemy instead.  If my attacks cant gain agro then confront probably wouldnt either.  Ive even tried 6 slotting the presence pool taunt and it was pointless - i couldnt gain any meaningful agro.  I think clicking a taunt power should outweigh punchvoke but thats a different conversation.

 

For me the power is skippable and thats ok to free up a pick elsewhere.  There are times where i would take it but that would only be for a set bonus,  not for the taunt.

 

[Rudra]

4 hours ago, Sakura Tenshi said:

Because we can only pick so many power pools for one.

This comment is going to be wildly unpopular. If you can't grab one of the many ranged attacks available in the power pools despite wanting ranged attacks on your Scrapper, or if you can't grab Teleport Other despite wanting to grab that enemy some distance away and yoink him over to you, or if you can't grab Teleport to close the gap with a distant target despite wanting to because that would require you to give up the Leadership, Fighting, Leaping, or Speed pools? Then you aren't asking for build diversity. You are asking for a 5th power pool to be slipped in under the pretense of "improving" a power you don't particularly want.

[Sakura Tenshi]

Well, @Rudra, you know what I truly want? more than power gaming? More than power pool or APP options?

 

Spoiler

I WANT TO DO AIR CUTTING SWORD ATTACKS ON KATANA AND DUAL BLADES BECAUSE I DON'T GIVE A @#$% ABOUT HOW THIS IS BASED ON AMERICAN COMICBOOKS, I WANT TO DO ANIME STUFF.

 

[Rudra]

Then ask for a new Blaster set based on ranged blade strikes. You get the ranged attacks from the primary and the melee attacks from the secondary.

 

Edit: Or if you want to stay Scrapper, ask for a new APP set that uses all ranged cutting attacks from anime sword-wielders.

Edited January 25, 2023 by Rudra

[biostem]

Make the Scrapper's taunt-like power grant an increased chance of critting against the target, (either a flat amount or based on that enemy's rank), in addition to the taunt and -range effects.

[BrandX]

I tend to take Confront on the builds that get a good looking animation with their Confront...like Titan Weapon, Dual Wield and Katana.

 

Maybe if the others got Getsome Emote as an alternate animation I'd grab theirs too. 🙂

 

What I do feel they could use, is longer duration 🙂  Keep those targets locked on you and not running away, while you pound on them

 

[Uun]

I've tried scrapper Confront over the years and have always dropped it. It's not useful enough to waste a power pick (I do take Taunt on brutes though). For pulling, it doesn't work any better than using a ranged attack. I can pick up Nemesis Staff or Blackwand from the P2W vendor and get the same result. On the other hand, I only play scrappers with taunt auras, so if I really want someone's attention, I run in and smack them.

[biostem]

6 hours ago, Uun said:

I've tried scrapper Confront over the years and have always dropped it. It's not useful enough to waste a power pick (I do take Taunt on brutes though). For pulling, it doesn't work any better than using a ranged attack. I can pick up Nemesis Staff or Blackwand from the P2W vendor and get the same result. On the other hand, I only play scrappers with taunt auras, so if I really want someone's attention, I run in and smack them.

Don't underestimate the -range component - it can be very useful.  Whether that is worth the power pick, however, is up for debate...

[A.I.D.A.]

It doesn't do anything that tagging a mob with a ranged attack and standing around a corner doesn't already do. XD

[Rudra]

If you're solo. And if you're on a large team, Confront is superfluous at best. Especially if you have any Tankers on the team. On small teams though? Like duos and trios? And the fight has already begun and your squishy buddy over there is being attacked? Using Confront can get that mob to leave your friend alone and go fight you instead (when it works). And if you're in the middle of a fight and don't want enemy AoE's or random attention on your beleagured friend? Not running over to save your friend is usually the best plan. At least in my experience.

 

Taunts, even Confront, do something a simple attack is not guaranteed to do. (And I mean besides the autohit portion of Confront.) It shifts the target's attention to you. An attack can do that, but may not.

 

And yes, that beleagured friend could just run away too. Except for the times when (s)he can't. Like when held, stunned, immobilized, or slept. So to me, Confront is a very useful tool. It may not be used very often, but it is useful to me. And far better than the Presence pool's version despite it having a 5-target AoE.

 

Edit: Though I still use Confront to pull single mobs or smaller groups from bad spawn locations too. And to try and get runners to stop running. ... which they don't because the mob fleeing mechanics requires them run cross-country no matter what you do to stop them as a Scrapper....

Edited January 26, 2023 by Rudra