A little confusion/contention with armor sets that include a stealth power

[biostem]

So I've been having a really great time with my dark/super reflexes sentinel, and in keeping with her theme, I took stealth and stack combat jumping with a stealth IO to make her hard to detect.  I was considering ninjitsu, but I noticed that stealth actually grants a higher degree of concealment vs ninjitsu, dark, or energy aura's respective powers.  Is it because these provide some additional effects or have lower end costs?  Outside of rolling a stalker, is stealth + a stealth IO the best route to get the most amount of concealment, (I'm not counting illusion's superior invisibility, because it's not the type of character I am looking to create at this time)?  Thanks for your input!

[SeraphimKensai]

I think what you're seeing is that non stalkers that have a stealth power the mag is equal to what stealth used to be before stealth was combined with invisibility. So you might be looking at the stealth values of stealth out of combat which would have the same mag as the former invisibility power.

 

The in powerset stealths didn't get their magnitudes increased to invisibility like levels.

[biostem]

4 minutes ago, SeraphimKensai said:

The in powerset stealths didn't get their magnitudes increased to invisibility like levels.

Right, so then we're back at the start of my conundrum - if better levels of concealment are what you're after, why take the in-set powers, (unless tying up a power pool pick is something you cannot do, or that in-set power offers other benefits you really want).

[Snarky]

I never tried to "upgrade" my Dark Armor Brute's stealth.  The non suppressing stealth and just flat out ignoring anyone when I wanted to....was enough.

 

My current Corruptor has Shadow Fall.  40 ft stealth according to mids but i think in game monitoring has it at 35. this does not suppress.  Then I slap a Celerity +Stealth in Prestige Sprint (so i can color the prestige aura black 1-this gives a cool look 2-I can tell when it is off or on) The Celerity +Stealth does suppress in combat or if I click a glowie.  It is a necessary thing to get through a speed Aeon.  Full invisibility when stacked with Shadow Fall.

Edited March 18, 2023 by Snarky

[Psyonico]

The in-set stealth powers usually have higher non-suppressing defense values and/or lower end cost than stealth.

[Wavicle]

If you have the power Stealth you don't need the IO.

[biostem]

16 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

If you have the power Stealth you don't need the IO.

Stacking the 2 mean you can get closer to enemies and even bypass some of the higher-perception enemies.

[Greycat]

If you're curious about which do what (in and out of combat,) I'd suggest heading to test and getting your combat attributes monitor monitoring your various defenses and stealth radius. (Sometimes hands-on just makes more sense than "well, this stack of numbers says this, I think.")

[biostem]

18 minutes ago, Greycat said:

If you're curious about which do what (in and out of combat,) I'd suggest heading to test and getting your combat attributes monitor monitoring your various defenses and stealth radius. (Sometimes hands-on just makes more sense than "well, this stack of numbers says this, I think.")

Thanks for the info, but I can already monitor the stealth radius on live, having various characters with the different stealth powers.

[Frozen Burn]

1 hour ago, Wavicle said:

If you have the power Stealth you don't need the IO.

 

For true invisibility, yes you do.  

 

1 hour ago, biostem said:

Stacking the 2 mean you can get closer to enemies and even bypass some of the higher-perception enemies.

 

Correct.

 

Stealth from the Concealment pool is rated at 55 ft "stealthiness."  At 60 ft, you're completely invisible and can literally stand on top of foes and they will not see you.  Stealth alone at 55 ft (no IO added on) can get you pretty damn close to foes, but if you're right next to them, they will see you.  So, you should still get that IO, which adds 30 ft of stealth radius, making you invis with 85 ft radius. 

 

All the armor stealths provide 35 ft stealth radius, plus the IO will give you 65 ft - putting you over the 60ft limit and making you invisible.  For PVE purposes, to foes, there is no real difference whether you are 60 ft, 65 ft, or 85 ft radius - there is mostly no impact on the foes.  The only caveat are the few foes that have higher perception (like snipers) -- 85ft gets you a little closer than if you had 55 ft or 65 ft, but they will still see you from a distance.  

 

Now given all that, the Armor stealths grant better defenses along with the stealthiness, and less of the defense suppresses while in combat, compared to the Stealth power from the Concealment pool.  I would opt for the armor stealth over the pool power for that alone.  The few extra feet you get from Stealth + IO for the few mobs that will STILL see you anyway, is not worth sacrificing the better defenses you get from the armor stealth powers and will use on the majority of what you will fight.

 

[Wavicle]

Unless you’re talking about some hard mode content, which I have not done, Stealth by itself now gives full invisibility.

[Captain Fabulous]

I have stood right on top of critters with Stealth and they don't see me, tho things with increased perception like Rikti Drones will. Before the Concealment revamp Stealth was 35' and Invisibility was 55'. Now Stealth is 55', so it's equivalent to what Invisibility used to be. 

[Luminara]

5 hours ago, Frozen Burn said:

Stealth from the Concealment pool is rated at 55 ft "stealthiness."  At 60 ft, you're completely invisible and can literally stand on top of foes and they will not see you.  Stealth alone at 55 ft (no IO added on) can get you pretty damn close to foes, but if you're right next to them, they will see you.

 

Standard critter perception distances are 45' for minions, 50' for lieutenants and 54' for bosses.  You're invisible at 55'.

 

Exceptions: swarms, snipers, turrets, Rularu Sentries (the eyeball enemies), and Monsters all of these have perception of 100-149', so stacking a stealth IO with any other power (other than Superior Invisibility) still isn't enough to stand next to them.  Rikti Drones ignore Stealth.  Some Praetorian lieutenants have 50' perception.

[BazookaTwo]

The Stealth in Ninjitsu guarantees you a 20% damage bonus to your opening attack. Add a build up type power to that and it's nice. Add Assault and it's nicer.