The Opposite of Universal Damage: Typed Damage (8 New IO Sets)

[Supertanker]

My suggestion is for more sets like "Overwhelming Force", the Universal Damage Invention Origin set- attuned, unique, but not Superior levels. Instead of Universal Damage, each set works in specific damage powers: Smashing, Lethal, Fire, Cold, Ice, Energy, Neg. Energy, Toxic, and Psionic attacks.

 

An example would be a set called "Future Sight", which can be slotted in attacks that do Psionic damage. The proc enhancement would be a short +Defense boost. Set bonuses would be similar level to Overwhelming Force, maybe even sharing some, plus new bonuses not seen in other sets. Maybe +ToHit (instead of +Accuracy), or resistance to types of debuffs?

 

If you like the idea, feel free to suggest other set ideas. I feel the procs should avoid effects already associated with that damage type (ex: Ice doesn't more Slow Movement, maybe chance to create a small fog patch?)

[biostem]

Not so much damage types, but I think we need IO sets that combine a mez effect with damage - most, if not all of the hold sets, for instance, do not buff damage at all, yet nearly all such powers *do* deal damage.  A quick check here seems to hold true for other mez effects as well...

[Rudra]

You're not just asking for new IO sets with this. Damage types aren't tracked for separate enhancement. So the devs would have to add code to make sure the proposed sets could only be slotted in powers with the correct damage types. (Edit: And then, only buff the correct damage type.)

 

Edit: And then you have attacks with multiple damage types. Like water with its smashing and cold or smashing and fire damage depending on the attack. Or Dual Pistols which can change its damage type with the Swap Ammo power.

 

Edit again: The Universal Damage set is not called that because it works with all damage types, it is called that because it works with all attack types. Unlike melee sets, PBAoE sets, TAoE sets, and ranged damage sets, the universal set can be slotted into any attack.

Edited April 22, 2023 by Rudra

[Supertanker]

3 minutes ago, biostem said:

Not so much damage types, but I think we need IO sets that combine a mez effect with damage - most, if not all of the hold sets, for instance, do not buff damage at all, yet nearly all such powers *do* deal damage.  A quick check here seems to hold true for other mez effects as well...

 

Yeah, I've made that suggestion before too. Or even add +Damage to the existing mez sets.

[srmalloy]

It would be a nightmare to code, but sets that would change the damage type of an attack -- for each enhancement (except the proc) slotted in a power, 20% of the damage done by the power is changed to the type defined for the set.

[Rudra]

1 minute ago, srmalloy said:

It would be a nightmare to code, but sets that would change the damage type of an attack -- for each enhancement (except the proc) slotted in a power, 20% of the damage done by the power is changed to the type defined for the set.

Borrow the code from Swap Ammo. This would be far more feasible than the OP.

[biostem]

Well, maybe instead of all that, simply have a set that can only be slotted if the power deals the appropriate damage type.  This hypothetical set could include damage or other procs, and since it simply checks if the power deals the correct damage type in order to slot it, you wouldn't need to specifically modify the power...

[biostem]

Just now, Rudra said:

Borrow the code from Swap Ammo. This would be far more feasible than the OP.

Aren't all the dual pistols powers actually hard-coded with all the different damage types & effects, and simply checks which ammo type toggle is active in order to apply that effect.  You couldn't realistically go back and re-code all other powers to include the extra effects...

[Supertanker]

10 minutes ago, biostem said:

Well, maybe instead of all that, simply have a set that can only be slotted if the power deals the appropriate damage type.  This hypothetical set could include damage or other procs, and since it simply checks if the power deals the correct damage type in order to slot it, you wouldn't need to specifically modify the power...

 

That's all my suggestion is. Every power already has attack type: melee and Smashing, ranged and Energy, etc. We already have IO sets for the first type, my idea is new sets based on the second type.

[Rudra]

36 minutes ago, biostem said:

Aren't all the dual pistols powers actually hard-coded with all the different damage types & effects, and simply checks which ammo type toggle is active in order to apply that effect. 

Good question. I don't really know.

 

26 minutes ago, Supertanker said:

 

That's all my suggestion is. Every power already has attack type: melee and Smashing, ranged and Energy, etc. We already have IO sets for the first type, my idea is new sets based on the second type.

The problem I have with this is that either the devs will have to go over every power in the game and set those individual powers to be able to accept the new proposed IOs for each damage type that specific power may utilize, or they would have to generate a new system to check for the damage types instead of just the attack type to make this work. And if the proposed sets only affected that specific element in any given attack, which is not something you said but something I have to consider until it is specifically ruled out, then multi-damage powers would be handicapped using the proposed sets. And then if any of the new typed damage sets was more appealing to players than others? Not better, just more appealing. There would be all sorts of complaints that players' preferred power sets couldn't make use of these damage sets for being the wrong element. (I've argued to death that Sudden Acceleration as a set is a good set compared to most damage sets, not the best damage sets, but most damage sets. And players still argue the proc it has is a tax because they refuse to slot the set for not giving them exactly what they want.)

 

You have an interesting idea, but given coding problems and the already existing problems of how players approach sets, I'm going to be against the OP. I like @srmalloy's take on the idea, but I am going to have to be against the OP itself.

 

(Edit: And yes, it would have to be basically every power in the game the devs would have to comb over and add new flags to because even many mezzes have a typed damage component. Not just specifically attack powers.)

Edited April 22, 2023 by Rudra

[biostem]

44 minutes ago, Rudra said:

The problem I have with this is that either the devs will have to go over every power in the game and set those individual powers to be able to accept the new proposed IOs for each damage type that specific power may utilize, or they would have to generate a new system to check for the damage types instead of just the attack type to make this work.

Obviously we would need an official answer on the matter, but if armor toggles can simply check how a power is coded with regard to what damage type they deal, I see no reason why an enhancement couldn't do this to see if it could be placed into a power or not.  I don't think you'd need a new system or anything - the meta-data is already there!

Edited April 22, 2023 by biostem

[Rudra]

Agreed. We need an official answer as to how and when the game checks and applies damage. At the very least, for the purpose of the OP, it would be nice to know if adding the proposed sets would require the devs to look at each and every power individually, if a new mechanic to look up the already provided data would need to be generated to make this possible, or if anything else was going on. If this could be rendered a non-concern, then my only issue would be making sure the proposed sets were sufficiently all the same that players wouldn't be complaining that say the fire set has better options than the ice set or whatever. And if the OP could be reduced to just that concern? I would no longer oppose it.

[Greycat]

1 hour ago, biostem said:

Obviously we would need an official answer on the matter, but if armor toggles can simply check how a power is coded with regard to what damage type they deal, I see no reason why an enhancement couldn't do this to see if it could be placed into a power or not.  I don't think you'd need a new system or anything - the meta-data is already there!

 

As I'm understanding it, mostly because it isn't in game for it to check (as far as "when putting sets in") already?  I'm not sure how hard having the ability of the enhancement screen knowing that would be. *shrug* Since it's not just armor toggles (which would have to know in PVP anyway) but enemies who know what they're resistant to (or not.)

 

As far as Dual Pistols (and anything else that would use that mechanic,) I'd assume it'd just use the base type - the extra damage type just being added on top of it, so it's not "the power's" type but the buff's. (Think fire armor does this too, doesn't care what the attack set is, but adds a fire component?)

 

I'm not sure if I'd want full sets of each type - honestly, not for or against it. I wouldn't mind just a high-percent proc, non unique, that adds a type to an attack. (Heck, I wouldn't mind this as an alpha, even, though it'd be a little limiting.) I, and others, have had characters that "this set looks right but does the wrong damage type" that wouldn't mind it for a bit of flavor.

[biostem]

Just now, Greycat said:

As I'm understanding it, mostly because it isn't in game for it to check (as far as "when putting sets in") already?

The question that comes to mind is if, for instance, a ranged IO checks if a power is in fact a ranged AoE, or if when implementing IOs, the devs simply added tags to powers, and it merely checks against those tags, regardless of what the power actually is, (so theoretically you could put the "ranged AoE" tag in any power, and such an IO could then be slotted, even if it was sprint or something).  If the IOs check against the power's properties, however, then it'd be fairly easy to see that this power deals lethal damage, so can therefore take one of these proposed "Lethal IOs"...

[Rudra]

16 minutes ago, Greycat said:

As I'm understanding it, mostly because it isn't in game for it to check (as far as "when putting sets in") already?  I'm not sure how hard having the ability of the enhancement screen knowing that would be.

 

10 minutes ago, biostem said:

The question that comes to mind is if, for instance, a ranged IO checks if a power is in fact a ranged AoE, or if when implementing IOs, the devs simply added tags to powers, and it merely checks against those tags, regardless of what the power actually is, (so theoretically you could put the "ranged AoE" tag in any power, and such an IO could then be slotted, even if it was sprint or something).  If the IOs check against the power's properties, however, then it'd be fairly easy to see that this power deals lethal damage, so can therefore take one of these proposed "Lethal IOs"...

I'm operating under the impression that each power is given a set of flags for what enhancement types they can slot. That is the core part of my concern. The generation of 8 new flags (which would not be difficult) and then applying them to every attack the proposed sets would be able to be slotted in. (You would have to go through the armor sets for this too since some like Fiery Aura have damage auras.) Especially since some sets would be able to slot multiple different sets from the OP. As someone who spends too much time sorting through files and placing them where they are supposed to be as opposed to where they are, asking the devs to do that at this stage of game development with the sheer number of powers available, would be cruel and unusual punishment in my opinion.

[SeraphimKensai]

2 hours ago, biostem said:

Not so much damage types, but I think we need IO sets that combine a mez effect with damage - most, if not all of the hold sets, for instance, do not buff damage at all, yet nearly all such powers *do* deal damage.  A quick check here seems to hold true for other mez effects as well...

^this right here. It's why the Domi ATOs are hot trash.

[kelika2]

Is this why Fiery Embrace went through a billion changes?

[UltraAlt]

8 hours ago, SeraphimKensai said:

^this right here. It's why the Domi ATOs are hot trash.

 

I like the Dominator ATO sets.

 

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Dominating_Grasp

What's not to like about Fiery orb in a multi target attack? (I can't say that I've seen more than 2 spawn at one time)

 

Break it in sets of 2's and you get 

improves the duration of your Immobilize effects by 18%.

improves the duration of your Sleep effects by 18%.

improves the duration of your Fear effects by 9.9%.

improves the duration of your Confuse effects by 9%.

improves the duration of your Hold effects by 9%.

improves the duration of your Stun effects by 9%.

 

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Ascendency_of_the_Dominator

 

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Ascendency_of_the_Dominator:_Recharge/Chance_for_%2BDamage up to 3 times a minute

 

Break it into sets of 3's and you get

improves the Damage of all your powers by 5%.

improves the duration of your Immobilize effects by 12%.

improves the duration of your Sleep effects by 12%.

improves the duration of your Fear effects by 6.6%.

improves the duration of your Confuse effects by 6%.

improves the duration of your Hold effects by 6%.

improves the duration of your Stun effects by 6%.

 

So slotting both sets by those set number per power yields

improves the Damage of all your powers by 5%.

improves the duration of your Immobilize effects by 30%.

improves the duration of your Sleep effects by 30%.

improves the duration of your Fear effects by 13.2%.

improves the duration of your Confuse effects by 15%.

improves the duration of your Hold effects by 15%.

improves the duration of your Stun effects by 15%.

 

seems okay to me, but I'm not playing the end-game.

 

[SeraphimKensai]

44 minutes ago, UltraAlt said:

 

I like the Dominator ATO sets.

 

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Dominating_Grasp

What's not to like about Fiery orb in a multi target attack? (I can't say that I've seen more than 2 spawn at one time)

 

Break it in sets of 2's and you get 

improves the duration of your Immobilize effects by 18%.

improves the duration of your Sleep effects by 18%.

improves the duration of your Fear effects by 9.9%.

improves the duration of your Confuse effects by 9%.

improves the duration of your Hold effects by 9%.

improves the duration of your Stun effects by 9%.

 

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Ascendency_of_the_Dominator

 

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Ascendency_of_the_Dominator:_Recharge/Chance_for_%2BDamage up to 3 times a minute

 

Break it into sets of 3's and you get

improves the Damage of all your powers by 5%.

improves the duration of your Immobilize effects by 12%.

improves the duration of your Sleep effects by 12%.

improves the duration of your Fear effects by 6.6%.

improves the duration of your Confuse effects by 6%.

improves the duration of your Hold effects by 6%.

improves the duration of your Stun effects by 6%.

 

So slotting both sets by those set number per power yields

improves the Damage of all your powers by 5%.

improves the duration of your Immobilize effects by 30%.

improves the duration of your Sleep effects by 30%.

improves the duration of your Fear effects by 13.2%.

improves the duration of your Confuse effects by 15%.

improves the duration of your Hold effects by 15%.

improves the duration of your Stun effects by 15%.

 

seems okay to me, but I'm not playing the end-game.

 

It would be fine if it also enhanced damage at least in my opinion. As is Domis really need recharge, so the individual mez powers it's much more worthwhile to chase the applicable purple sets for the 10% recharge bonus.

[UltraAlt]

 

1 hour ago, SeraphimKensai said:

It would be fine if it also enhanced damage at least in my opinion.

 

 

1 hour ago, UltraAlt said:

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Ascendency_of_the_Dominator

 

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Ascendency_of_the_Dominator:_Recharge/Chance_for_%2BDamage up to 3 times a minute

 

Break it into sets of 3's and you get

improves the Damage of all your powers by 5%.

 

If you wanted to you could break it into 2's forgo the extra control percentages and make it a damage increase of 7.5% + a chance for + damage 3 times per minute.

 

It's a matter of how you play and at what level.

I don't run at level 50 so no purples for me. (well I am kind of looking forward to slotting a contagious confusion at some point.)

 

I honestly don't use Domination until I'm in a fight and I'm about to run out of endurance.

Edited April 22, 2023 by UltraAlt

[Saiyajinzoningen]

this thread seems to have veered of course but i agree with OP's original idea for more IO sets

[Herotu]

On 4/22/2023 at 1:44 AM, biostem said:

Not so much damage types, but I think we need IO sets that combine a mez effect with damage - most, if not all of the hold sets, for instance, do not buff damage at all, yet nearly all such powers *do* deal damage.  A quick check here seems to hold true for other mez effects as well...

I've always considered Gish to be OPAF. I appreciate the manipulation of rules as much as the next billionaire, but in a game where you're supposed to team up with people... I am in two minds because the game doesn't have a gigantic population and players to team with are sparse, so making an OP solo character does have logic in it's favour.

[Herotu]

On 4/22/2023 at 1:40 AM, Supertanker said:

My suggestion is for more sets like "Overwhelming Force", the Universal Damage Invention Origin set- attuned, unique, but not Superior levels. Instead of Universal Damage, each set works in specific damage powers: Smashing, Lethal, Fire, Cold, Ice, Energy, Neg. Energy, Toxic, and Psionic attacks.

 

An example would be a set called "Future Sight", which can be slotted in attacks that do Psionic damage. The proc enhancement would be a short +Defense boost. Set bonuses would be similar level to Overwhelming Force, maybe even sharing some, plus new bonuses not seen in other sets. Maybe +ToHit (instead of +Accuracy), or resistance to types of debuffs?

 

If you like the idea, feel free to suggest other set ideas. I feel the procs should avoid effects already associated with that damage type (ex: Ice doesn't more Slow Movement, maybe chance to create a small fog patch?)

Why not let us decide what bonuses are on our enhancements?

 

A point-based trade-off system where we lose things as we gain other things? 

 

Maybe I'm doing that thing where we invent another game again by thinking too big.

[biostem]

4 hours ago, Herotu said:

I've always considered Gish to be OPAF.

I'm not familiar with what you are referring to when you say "Gish".

 

4 hours ago, Herotu said:

in a game where you're supposed to team up with people

You *can* team up with people if you like, and indeed there is much content that is not doable with your average build, but it is not mandatory, so I don't put much weight into your "supposed to" statement, here...

[Jiro Ito]

I always thought the game needed a taunt set that also did damage, with substantial end reduction for taunt toggles.  Bonus points if the proc doubled the agro cap!