Underrated Farm and Solo Builds

[iBones]

Hey all,

 

So I'm about done with sets on my DM/SD, and while he absolutely NUKES - The ST focus of DM is incredibly apparent and feels kinda clunky roughly every other pack when I'm not lucky with crits. So I will be sliding him into my "all content" character slot and now need a true farming build. But I have a very real issue that makes this slightly more difficult -

 

I loath FoTM or common builds. So Spine/Fire? Nope. And that's before the fact that Spines looks ABSOLUTELY silly visually.

 

What are some less common farm builds that I can build towards?

 

Current characters that I have below 50 -

SM/Dark - 45 (I am tempted to say F*ck it and dump some inf into this one just to see if Savage is like most things in life - Money cures it)

Rad/Fire - 44

SS/Bio - 41

StJ/Bio - 27

 

And a slew of single digit level scrappers. I literally haven't even created another AT outside of my scrappers and the lone SS Brute. (Are Widows decent? Basically Claws with some control?)

 

Any and all info and suggestions would be greatly appreciated <3

[Rockfall]

Rad/Fire is a fine farm build. I've got one of those and a spines/fire. Spines might be faster overall, but rad isn't bad.

[jack_nomind]

And a slew of single digit level scrappers. I literally haven't even created another AT outside of my scrappers and the lone SS Brute. (Are Widows decent? Basically Claws with some control?)

 

Night Widows are Claws/SR scrappers except with -regen, ranged attacks, and also they're really FF defenders because the whole team is softcapped now.  "Decent" is underselling it to the point of absurdity.  And yeah, your rad/fire should be just fine.

 

For anything else... you end up having to take a set with capped Fire Resist and a chunk of Ranged/Fire Defense (or vice-versa), or "a bit" of fire mitigation and enough damage to just gottagofast it.  Which is... not too hard, really?  For melee, Fire gets there fastest, but /Invuln can do it well enough, Shield and SR obviously just... dodge... and Dark Armor, Willpower, and Stone Armor (on a Brute) can get there without any special trickery. Going further afield, Masterminds and Dominators have a fair bit to recommend them and you can always learn to appreciate your melee even more by trying out a Blaster, Sentinel, or Corr (they're gonna be an uncomfortable ride for quite a while, but can work just fine at max level).  The MFing Warshade build might also work on a similar principle.  Post-Lightform PBs are fine, but before that you might feel pretty squishy (Crab tops out at 60% fire resist before IOs, and non-IO'd PB crabs are a little more awkward to use than WS ones).

 

My suggestion?  Water/Fire Sentinel.  Great AoE availability, solid general damage, caps Fire resist (at 75%) with a couple of IOs and gets you out of your comfort zone.

[iBones]

Rad/Fire is a fine farm build. I've got one of those and a spines/fire. Spines might be faster overall, but rad isn't bad.

 

I'm probably just unreasonably picky - but Rad feels....off. I know that it's numerically effective, but something isn't clicking with me.

 

That being said, if I can't find something else in the same neighborhood of performance, I may just have to suck it up.

[iBones]

And a slew of single digit level scrappers. I literally haven't even created another AT outside of my scrappers and the lone SS Brute. (Are Widows decent? Basically Claws with some control?)

 

Night Widows are Claws/SR scrappers except with -regen, ranged attacks, and also they're really FF defenders because the whole team is softcapped now.  "Decent" is underselling it to the point of absurdity.  And yeah, your rad/fire should be just fine.

 

For anything else... you end up having to take a set with capped Fire Resist and a chunk of Ranged/Fire Defense (or vice-versa), or "a bit" of fire mitigation and enough damage to just gottagofast it.  Which is... not too hard, really?  For melee, Fire gets there fastest, but /Invuln can do it well enough, Shield and SR obviously just... dodge... and Dark Armor, Willpower, and Stone Armor (on a Brute) can get there without any special trickery. Going further afield, Masterminds and Dominators have a fair bit to recommend them and you can always learn to appreciate your melee even more by trying out a Blaster, Sentinel, or Corr (they're gonna be an uncomfortable ride for quite a while, but can work just fine at max level).  The MFing Warshade build might also work on a similar principle.  Post-Lightform PBs are fine, but before that you might feel pretty squishy (Crab tops out at 60% fire resist before IOs, and non-IO'd PB crabs are a little more awkward to use than WS ones).

 

My suggestion?  Water/Fire Sentinel.  Great AoE availability, solid general damage, caps Fire resist (at 75%) with a couple of IOs and gets you out of your comfort zone.

 

See, this is kind of where I'm missing something - my Rad/Fire has capped Fire resist and a few million in IOs as a baseline, and farming just doesn't really work. I die while spamming healing flames. I know with more investment and bonuses that Rad/Fire works. I've seen it work. So the idea that any number of these alternatives, with capped fire resist, will perform better just doesn't do it for me. Admittedly, out of the several thousand of hours in CoH over the years - I probably have a collective 5-10 in Fire as a armor set. So I may just be overthinking it. 

 

I have been eyeing the MFing WS. Mainly because a close friend of mine back on live mained one. And I could not believe the potential of that build.

 

The Sentinel recommendation is interesting - I was already eyeing the AT since I left CoH prior to it's release and making a DP/Nin kind of scratches a concept itch I have had since 2006. If you are familiar enough with the AT, are there any major differences to the secondaries that I should be aware of? Everyone I have talked to about it seem to come from Blasters and have little experience in the armor department.

 

Thank you for your input - very very helpful

[Gobbledygook]

Fm/SD

It has solid single target damage, Fire Sword Circle is a great AoE, you'd have shield charge, and could even pick up another AoE in your epic/patron pool if you choose, and of course, there's also your Judgement Incarnate. I can solo AV's and farm with my FM brute.

And think about it, how many other scraps or brutes have you seen running around with FM?

Definitely not FotM.

 

[iBones]

Fm/SD

It has solid single target damage, Fire Sword Circle is a great AoE, you'd have shield charge, and could even pick up another AoE in your epic/patron pool if you choose, and of course, there's also your Judgement Incarnate. I can solo AV's and farm with my FM brute.

And think about it, how many other scraps or brutes have you seen running around with FM?

Definitely not FotM.

 

I have a lvl 6 FM/SD just in case I ever decided to act on my thoughts of making it better than the more common Elec/SD.

 

Part of my dilemma is that in general - I just see so much Fire anything. While the logical side of my brain tells me, "duh", the more creative side is telling me to use something as bad as Ice Melee and make it badass.

 

Thank you for the response - I always consider that combo just because I know it will wreck.

[jack_nomind]

See, this is kind of where I'm missing something - my Rad/Fire has capped Fire resist and a few million in IOs as a baseline, and farming just doesn't really work. I die while spamming healing flames. I know with more investment and bonuses that Rad/Fire works. I've seen it work. So the idea that any number of these alternatives, with capped fire resist, will perform better just doesn't do it for me.

 

I'm gonna repost this chart a few times for public use until I finally make it into a spreadsheet or something better.  This chart lists your effective HP multiplier at certain levels of resilience.  The horizontal axis is Resistance, the vertical axis is Defense.  (I made this for Tankers and I don't feel like adding a column for 75 Res right now, but it should be illustrative anyway.)

 

D/R	20	40	60	80	85	90
10	1.56	2.08	3.13	6.25	8.33	12.5
20	2.08	2.78	4.167	8.33	11.11	16.67
30	3.13	4.167	6.25	12.5	16.67	25
40	6.25	8.33	12.5	25	33.33	50
42.5	8.33	11.11	16.67	33.33	44.44	66.67
45	12.5	16.67	25	50	66.67	100

 

Without changing anything at all, a /FA Brute is 2.5x as survivable as a /FA Scrapper, just because the scrapper caps out fire resist so much lower (and FA provides well over-cap fire resist on either AT).  More than, really, because of the higher HP.  To make up the difference on a Scrapper you need to have more Defense (or more active mitigation.  Always slot Blazing Aura and Burn with KD procs!).

 

The Sentinel recommendation is interesting - I was already eyeing the AT since I left CoH prior to it's release and making a DP/Nin kind of scratches a concept itch I have had since 2006. If you are familiar enough with the AT, are there any major differences to the secondaries that I should be aware of? Everyone I have talked to about it seem to come from Blasters and have little experience in the armor department.

 

Sentinels cap at 75 Res like Scrappers do.  They get less Resistance overall out of the FA kit, enough so that they don't just cap fire resist without enhancements, but even basic slotting will still get them there.  However, all the Sentinels also get some version of Blaster sustain powers.  For /FA, it's a toggle heal (and Sentinel /FA also gets a toggle version of Fiery Embrace, combining that power and Blazing Aura which they also lose).  Since it's at the same resistance cap as the Scrapper, that means the Sentinel will actually be more survivable in fire farms than /FA Scrappers.

 

You'll still need to build for Defense -- particularly as the heal toggle doesn't come until L35.  But you might find it noticeably more stable.

 

(Since you were asking about Sentinel armor kits: Generally, I think the Sentinel secondaries are overtuned.  Although ostensibly weaker defensively than Scrappers, they tend to get two pluses for each minus.  The AT as a whole isn't strong enough to warrant nerfing its defense powers, which only really shine with IO sets anyway, but if it gets significantly better offense at some point they're gonna need some gutting.)

[marcussmythe]

In the alternate, Id say that the Sentinel Secondaries are a test case of things that should be back-ported to the other defensive sets.  Option for non-clicky mezz prot in SR?  Yes please.  Absorb Shields?  I’ll take two.  And didnt they combine Relements and Renergy on Invuln the way that Stalkers did? (if not, they should, and give it a regen/rec sustain - would make the set much more attractive in the IO world)

[Hopeling]

Any */fire brute will be a pretty solid farmer if the primary has halfway-decent AoE. SS/Fire used to be the popular build. Brutes work better for it than scrappers, because of the resist cap and because they get a taunt aura so things won't run from Burn.

 

If you don't want to do fire farms, there are lots of other options. Elec/SD is a classic, and works fine on a scrapper; other primaries could also work.

 

Ultimately, if you hate farming, you could also just... not farm. You can make pretty good inf from merits and maybe playing the market a bit. I purpled out multiple 50s on live this way, and IOs are only easier and cheaper to get on Homecoming.

[Murcielago]

Vote for Spines/Dark

 

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[Rockfall]

See, this is kind of where I'm missing something - my Rad/Fire has capped Fire resist and a few million in IOs as a baseline, and farming just doesn't really work. I die while spamming healing flames. I know with more investment and bonuses that Rad/Fire works. I've seen it work. So the idea that any number of these alternatives, with capped fire resist, will perform better just doesn't do it for me. Admittedly, out of the several thousand of hours in CoH over the years - I probably have a collective 5-10 in Fire as a armor set. So I may just be overthinking it.

 

The 90% fire res on a brute isn't enough. It needs def to go with it as well for the standard AE fire farms. 75% on a scrapper is going to need that def more than a brute. There's just too much incoming damage not to have most attacks miss. 90% res / 15% def was still "if I don't have a purple up, I die fast. If I have only one small purple up I die slowly." I've gotten further slotting and am now in the mid to high 20s native defense and it makes a world of difference. (I also did .. something that fixed up my end problems. Could be switched to energy mastery. Could be set slotting. Not sure what but the speed difference of not having to monitor blue and eat pills is huge.)

 

Honestly it might be easier to survive the farm on a non-fire-aura character, because you can take something like SR or Shield and get great def out the gate and there's a fair amount of fire +res kicking around in sets, especially purple sets. The problem is you'd give up burn. With shield charge that is less bad, but shield charge's recharge is forever and a day in a farm situation (or at least feels like it) even if you have a lot of +rech slotted and global.

[Rokkeb]

Fm/SD

It has solid single target damage, Fire Sword Circle is a great AoE, you'd have shield charge, and could even pick up another AoE in your epic/patron pool if you choose, and of course, there's also your Judgement Incarnate. I can solo AV's and farm with my FM brute.

And think about it, how many other scraps or brutes have you seen running around with FM?

Definitely not FotM.

 

I have a lvl 6 FM/SD just in case I ever decided to act on my thoughts of making it better than the more common Elec/SD.

 

Part of my dilemma is that in general - I just see so much Fire anything. While the logical side of my brain tells me, "duh", the more creative side is telling me to use something as bad as Ice Melee and make it badass.

 

Thank you for the response - I always consider that combo just because I know it will wreck.

 

I'm still hoping for someone to show me real game example of ice melee dark armor working. Mine was a miserable failure, and of course someone said with several billion in IOs and max incarnate it would actually be pretty strong... but literally everything in game under those conditions is strong.

[Auroxis]

Rad/Shield can Farm, Solo, Tank, very underrated.

[FUBARczar]

Rad/Shield can Farm, Solo, Tank, very underrated.

 

very true, I have a 50+ Rad/Shield Stalker, they are a great gombo

[Auroxis]

Rad/Shield can Farm, Solo, Tank, very underrated.

 

very true, I have a 50+ Rad/Shield Stalker, they are a great gombo

 

Stalker loses Irradiated Ground so it wouldn't be my preferred pick for Rad/Shield.

[hejtmane]

for scrappers for just pure farming elec/sd can clear fodder all day long and my fire/sd was a better farmer than my dm/sd those are the shield ones I would also say elec/fire looks appealing

[Heraclea]

My Roman wall worker in 2012 was Spines/WP.  Spines benefitted from original Stamina (which I never respecced out of), inherent Stamina, and Quick Recovery.  Multiple sets of Kinetic Melee, and Pacing of  the Turtle procs in almost everything else, made her tough enough.  And I used Caltrops as my first get out of trouble button.

[Chance Jackson]

Fm/SD

It has solid single target damage, Fire Sword Circle is a great AoE, you'd have shield charge, and could even pick up another AoE in your epic/patron pool if you choose, and of course, there's also your Judgement Incarnate. I can solo AV's and farm with my FM brute.

And think about it, how many other scraps or brutes have you seen running around with FM?

Definitely not FotM.

Part of my dilemma is that in general - I just see so much Fire anything. While the logical side of my brain tells me, "duh", the more creative side is telling me to use something as bad as Ice Melee and make it badass.

Some MFers are always trying to ice skate uphill lol

[iBones]

So I think I have narrowed my search down a bit thanks to you fine folks

 

Rad/SD is now at the top of my list - I think the consistent AoE Damage from Rad will outperform the mini nukes of Soul Drained Shield Charges (I think!??!!)

 

Why do I feel like a Staff/Fire would be kickass?

 

I've been taking my time on a SS/Bio Brute who is sitting at lvl 41 and I must say - it is certainly increasing my level of respect for SS. Rage is annoying now that you can't avoid it, but even at level 41 and little investment, I have enough recharge for perma. SS feels (dated) but smooth and I can see a world where I make it my main farmer. Which puts me back to using Fire Armor or Dark? I saw a SS/Dark running around earlier who kicked ass.

 

Is there a world where we make Psionic Melee work? Or does the cone + mass levitate not do enough? Even when possibly paired with SD?

 

 

You guys kick ass, and I love coming here to discuss thoughts and ideas. Thank you <3

 

 

 

 

[Shinobu]

It helps to talk about what kind of farming you mean when you say X is a great farmer.

 

My electric/shield scrapper can run the Council Earth farm all day at +4/8.  But that kind of farm is perfectly suited for a burst damage set like elec/shield... I jump into a group, double nuke it, clean up the bosses, and I'm on to the next group.  I can do that all day.  ^_^

 

That's very different from the type of farming you want to do on a fire brute, where you want to be constantly over aggro cap for stretches of several minutes at a time.  That kind of constant incoming damage does not suit a shield scrapper well -- IE an AE smashing/lethal farm, even if you're capped at 75% resistance and softcapped at 45% plus defense, you may still find that +4/8 with bosses is too much incoming damage to deal with.

 

I find  with a fire brute that 90% resistance and about 30% defense is the sweet spot for surviving long term.  More defense is better, but if you're at about 15% fire defense you can make up the difference by constantly converting inspirations to purples and eating them like candy.  I haven't tried that kind of farm on a fire scrapper, but I would imagine it's similar to a shield scrapper in an S/L AE farm -- even at 45% defense and 75% resistance you may want to run at only +3, or run without bosses at +4.

 

And yes, Bio can run farms quite well.  ^_^

 

 

[iBones]

It helps to talk about what kind of farming you mean when you say X is a great farmer.

 

My electric/shield scrapper can run the Council Earth farm all day at +4/8.  But that kind of farm is perfectly suited for a burst damage set like elec/shield... I jump into a group, double nuke it, clean up the bosses, and I'm on to the next group.  I can do that all day.  ^_^

 

That's very different from the type of farming you want to do on a fire brute, where you want to be constantly over aggro cap for stretches of several minutes at a time.  That kind of constant incoming damage does not suit a shield scrapper well -- IE an AE smashing/lethal farm, even if you're capped at 75% resistance and softcapped at 45% plus defense, you may still find that +4/8 with bosses is too much incoming damage to deal with.

 

I find  with a fire brute that 90% resistance and about 30% defense is the sweet spot for surviving long term.  More defense is better, but if you're at about 15% fire defense you can make up the difference by constantly converting inspirations to purples and eating them like candy.  I haven't tried that kind of farm on a fire scrapper, but I would imagine it's similar to a shield scrapper in an S/L AE farm -- even at 45% defense and 75% resistance you may want to run at only +3, or run without bosses at +4.

 

And yes, Bio can run farms quite well.  ^_^

 

VERY good point -

 

I mean at this point, the type of farming doesn't matter as much to me. I prefer interesting builds and less used combinations more than the meta - even if that means I lose X amount of Inf an hour. Fun is more important to me.

 

Interestingly enough, I have been running my DM/SD Scrapper who is softcapped to Melee, AoE, and Ranged with modest resists - and I am finding Fire farms to be easier than S/L *shrug*

 

Unless convinced otherwise, I have been messing around in pines on a Rad/SD Scrapper - Does anyone have any experience with the taunt from AAO being enough to keep mobs in Irradiated Ground?

[Auroxis]

AAO one of the strongest taunt auras available to scrappers.

 

Also don't forget to place two -res procs into Irradiated Ground.

[Ringo]

I believe fire farms would be easier because lethal has -def

 

I have a Psi/Shield scrapper at 34, so just slotted out Mass Levitate.  The knockup is good mitigation, but I'd have to look to see whether the damage is comparable to Foot Stomp

[Ringo]

Pines says on both Tankers and Brutes that Mass Levitate is higher damage than Foot Stomp, so yeah I think that'd be a worthy farming AoE