Allow combining SOs like how we can combine Inspirations

[biostem]

As the title states, can we please be allowed to combine 3 SOs of the same level, origin, and type into 1 of a different type, (retaining the same level and origin as the 3 that were so-combined).

[Vanden]

They gotta be the same origin, type, AND level? That's way too restrictive to see much use.

[biostem]

54 minutes ago, Vanden said:

They gotta be the same origin, type, AND level? That's way too restrictive to see much use.

Well, maybe same level and type, then.  I can't imagine how combining could allow differing levels, unless the resulting enhancement was of the lowest of the bunch.

[Rudra]

Inspirations are cheap. 50 inf' for a regular inspiration from a nurse, combat medic, or other vendor. Inspirations also get used in battle, and if you have a tray full of inspirations other than what you need at the moment, combining them is very helpful. No one is going to be slotting enhancements during a battle. SOs aren't cheap, compared to inspirations. And while I may be remembering incorrectly, I'm pretty sure I saw all origin SOs available at the vendors.

 

I'm against the OP. If the OP is to be implemented though, then I think it should play by the same rules as inspirations. So yes, same origin, type, and level of enhancement.

 

(Edit: Though I would be fine with being able to boost SOs to be the same level.)

Edited June 4, 2023 by Rudra

[Zepp]

You can use same origin / type enhancements to increase the levels of enhancements already...

[Rudra]

I meant for merging. So instead of being limited to 3 level 30 SOs, you could merge a level 30, a level 29+, and a level 28++.

 

Edit: Nevermind. Boosting doesn't add pluses, it changes the level.

Edited June 4, 2023 by Rudra

[biostem]

39 minutes ago, Zepp said:

You can use same origin / type enhancements to increase the levels of enhancements already...

That's not the point, though;  Certain enhancement types drops a lot more often than others, and sometimes you'd rather convert your 100th accuracy into an end mod or really need a defense to fill a gap.  My characters tend to not have a huge amount of influence, (they're not poor, either), but some of my 50s use alternate builds with only SOs slotted, and being able to convert all those "common" ones into others I could use, would be preferable.  Sure, I could sell them, then buy the other ones, then rank them up, but I'm looking for a slightly more eloquent solution.  It isn't about slotting them in battle or where you can or cannot buy them from... 

[Rudra]

52 minutes ago, biostem said:

That's not the point, though;  Certain enhancement types drops a lot more often than others, and sometimes you'd rather convert your 100th accuracy into an end mod or really need a defense to fill a gap.  My characters tend to not have a huge amount of influence, (they're not poor, either), but some of my 50s use alternate builds with only SOs slotted, and being able to convert all those "common" ones into others I could use, would be preferable.  Sure, I could sell them, then buy the other ones, then rank them up, but I'm looking for a slightly more eloquent solution.  It isn't about slotting them in battle or where you can or cannot buy them from... 

@Zepp was correcting me. I don't boost my enhancements. The last time I did was back on Live and I could have sworn doing so added plusses to the enhancement, not actually changed its shown level.

 

(Edit: And if @Zepp wasn't correcting me, then I apologize for the assumption.)

Edited June 4, 2023 by Rudra

[Greycat]

.... ehhhh...

 

I mean, as fairly common as SOs are, still, with drops - and let's not forget vendoring basic recipes, especially at 50 - isn't it easier to just sell off what you don't need and buy what you do? Especially since this inspiration-like SO combining doesn't help if (say) you're Magic origin and have found yourself fighting a science, tech, natural or mutant group or groups (say from running on a task force.)

 

(Plus, as a nitpick, I could see calling this combining causing confusion with the whole boost/combine SOs in the enhancement screen just from similar terminology.)

[srmalloy]

10 hours ago, Rudra said:

The last time I did was back on Live and I could have sworn doing so added plusses to the enhancement, not actually changed its shown level.

They did, yes. Homecoming made a change so that combining SOs increased their level, so merging two level 30 SOs got you a level 31 SO, not a level 30+ SO. As I understand it, that made it possible to implement the 'upgrade' function on the slotting screen.

[0th Power]

On 6/4/2023 at 10:58 AM, srmalloy said:

They did, yes. Homecoming made a change so that combining SOs increased their level, so merging two level 30 SOs got you a level 31 SO, not a level 30+ SO. As I understand it, that made it possible to implement the 'upgrade' function on the slotting screen.

Which is the best QoL improvement to date imo

[TheZag]

I rarely get an SO drop that i would use and 3 times more rare is that i would have 3 to combine into something else.  With SO vendors all over it would be easier to sell 3 bad drops and buy what i need.

 

[Rigged]

This is already in the game, and is not restricted by SO type, origin or level.

 

It's called selling to the right vendor and buying what you want.

 

Julia Pria in Cimmerora, Mender Roebuck in Ouroboros, the Midnighter Store, and the Vanguard Quartermaster (the latter two can be placed in player bases) will buy ANY SO at 40% sell price. Additionally Origin store contacts will buy the respective Origin SOs at 40% sell price. Most other vendors buy SOs at 26% or less.

 

So in fact, you can not only convert 2 1/2 SOs to another, but you get to pick the specific SO you want. The OP's suggestion (3 SOs for a random SO?) is in fact a bit of a nerf. I advise creating your own player base to sell to. Put up the vanguard quartermaster and sell everything to them.

[biostem]

12 hours ago, Rigged said:

It's called selling to the right vendor and buying what you want.

 

Julia Pria in Cimmerora, Mender Roebuck in Ouroboros, the Midnighter Store, and the Vanguard Quartermaster (the latter two can be placed in player bases) will buy ANY SO at 40% sell price. Additionally Origin store contacts will buy the respective Origin SOs at 40% sell price. Most other vendors buy SOs at 26% or less.

 

So in fact, you can not only convert 2 1/2 SOs to another, but you get to pick the specific SO you want. The OP's suggestion (3 SOs for a random SO?) is in fact a bit of a nerf. I advise creating your own player base to sell to. Put up the vanguard quartermaster and sell everything to them.

Your point is moot, as the same could be done w/ inspirations before they were allowed to be combined.  My suggestion is about convenience, not about "what can already be done".

[Greycat]

6 hours ago, biostem said:

Your point is moot, as the same could be done w/ inspirations before they were allowed to be combined.  My suggestion is about convenience, not about "what can already be done".

 

Inspirations are also much more "immediate" in their use (and meant to be) than SOs, though. So, not really a great comparison there. We're talking bottle of water vs. working on indoor plumbing.

 

And *is* it actually more convenient? Honestly, I'd *really* have to think back to the last time I had 3 SOs of the same level, type and origin in my tray that I hadn't bought myself.  Even if we went, level-wise, into "within the same 5-level-range" (15-20, 20-25, etc.) I'd *really* have to think about it, though it'd make it more common to have something that *could* be combined in that manner.

 

That, of course, ignores the other point - unless you're watching what you're fighting, most of the time the drops I get that I can't use aren't "oh, I have three ACCs and really need to slot a DEF," but "Everything this group drops is Natural, I need Tech."  (Which is another spot it's unlike inspirations - we don't have natural, tech, etc. inspirations that perform the same function but are otherwise unusable because of origin or AT. Or, well, functionally didn't before duals, teams, supers were introduced... which IIRC don't convert anyway.) Do we then do three of one origin to convert to another? At that point (honestly, before...) selling them would pretty much be cheaper...

[biostem]

2 minutes ago, Greycat said:

I'd *really* have to think back to the last time I had 3 SOs of the same level, type and origin in my tray that I hadn't bought myself.

Try playing a 50 that only uses SOs - it's very enlightening, especially if you don't like to stop everything you're doing just to shop.

[Rigged]

9 hours ago, biostem said:

Your point is moot, as the same could be done w/ inspirations before they were allowed to be combined.  My suggestion is about convenience, not about "what can already be done".

 

My point is not moot. I certainly don't object to an addition of what you suggest, but my point is to inform people about this discrepancy in the sell prices between regular vendors (26% or less) and these specific ones (40%, which means you can buy a new SO for every 2.5 SOs you sell). This serves two purposes: 1) it provides an option for everyone to use just in case the devs do not implement your suggestion and 2) it helps your case by refuting everyone above who states it would be unbalanced or be too beneficial, because as I said a cheaper alternative already exists (2.5 SOs vs 3) with even less restrictions (no gatekeeping by type/origin/level), it's just less convenient.

 

This is why I suggest gaining access to a player base with the vendor, by the way - convenience. There is a base portal in every PVE zone except Cimmerora/Ouroboros/Midnight Squad (which have their own vendors anyway - and I sometimes pop into Ouro specifically to sell to Roebuck), or you can just use a base teleporter. Using your base teleporter also has the added convenience of putting you back at the exact spot you teleported from, if you exit by the entry portal. I certainly would support even more convenience, such as a temp power that summons a vendor in the same manner that we have the portable workbench, but how convenient things get is not my decision. Seriously though, a summonable vendor would be incredibly convenient, much more useful, and much easier to implement than an enhancement combine system. I'm just going to guess though that this kind of convenience is going to be opposed to all the difficulty purists who complain the game is too easy now.

 

I do have to ask you to clarify the implementation of your suggestion though - for your 3 enhancements, do you get a random type for an enhancement of the same origin/level or do you get to pick? I presume it's the latter - how would it work if the latter? There are 26 enhancement types, so are you suggesting we put in a gigantic menu (similar to the 8-option insp combine one, just gigantic with 26 options) from which you click? Or are you suggesting a combine window where you drag 3 enhancements in, click a specific enhancement type to output (again from a gigantic 26-option menu) and then click "combine"? Either way sounds very cumbersome as far as the UI goes, because the devs will have to code in output options for each of the 5 origins, so that would be 5x26=130 in all... why not just do a summonable vendor? See, I don't want to put down your suggestion, but you have to clarify what the implementation is going to look like. 

Edited June 7, 2023 by Rigged

[Greycat]

2 hours ago, biostem said:

Try playing a 50 that only uses SOs - it's very enlightening, especially if you don't like to stop everything you're doing just to shop.

 

... have to say that's even less of an argument for the suggestion, given the way the game is today 🙂 That's about the only way you could get multiples of same level, etc. in the tray (but it still doesn't help the *origin* side of it) ... but how many 50s do that?

[biostem]

Just now, Rigged said:

This is why I suggest gaining access to a player base with the vendor, by the way - convenience. There is a base portal in every PVE zone

Now compare that to how easy it is to combine 3 insps to another of the same tier.

 

1 minute ago, Rigged said:

I do have to ask you to clarify the implementation of your suggestion though - for your 3 enhancements, do you get a random type for an enhancement of the same origin/level or do you get to pick? I presume it's the latter - how would it work if the latter?

3 of the same type & level to 1 of any other.  Yeah there are many types of enh's, so the layout of the menu would have to be optimized.

[Rigged]

15 minutes ago, biostem said:

Now compare that to how easy it is to combine 3 insps to another of the same tier.

 

Yes and as I said it would be much easier and convenient to just summon a vendor.

 

15 minutes ago, biostem said:

3 of the same type & level to 1 of any other.  Yeah there are many types of enh's, so the layout of the menu would have to be optimized.

 

Please answer the rest of the question. Are you suggesting a massive 26-option menu like the insp combine menu - keeping in mind that for 26 options you are looking at a window several columns wide and rows long (2x13, 3x9, 4x7, 5x6), keeping in mind that there are in fact 130 actual origin/type combinations which will have to be coded in. Or are you asking the devs to code in a special combination window similar to the enh converter window? This is your suggestion and you have to flesh it out.

 

Also, please address why you think a summonable vendor is not a much better idea anyway since it would be much easier to code and is more useful since it can be used for selling recipes and salvage too. Convenience is after all your goal, right?

Edited June 7, 2023 by Rigged

[biostem]

8 minutes ago, Rigged said:

Please answer the rest of the question.

It'd be significantly simpler and more compact than the enh/IO menu on the test server, so no issues with implementing it.

 

9 minutes ago, Rigged said:

please address why you think a summonable vendor is not a much better idea

Because that was never part of my suggestion, nor does it provide for the much quicker & streamlined process I suggested.  If, for instance, I had 3 level 28 acc enh's and wanted a level 28 def, it'd be a simple and direct conversion, as opposed to having to buy a level 25 and 3 or more others, (allowing for some chance at failure after the first combination), not to mention needing to enter the enhancement slotting window before attaining the final level you wanted, then having to exit and purchase more, if a failure does occur.

[Rigged]

3 minutes ago, biostem said:

It'd be significantly simpler and more compact than the enh/IO menu on the test server, so no issues with implementing it.

 

Because that was never part of my suggestion, nor does it provide for the much quicker & streamlined process I suggested.  If, for instance, I had 3 level 28 acc enh's and wanted a level 28 def, it'd be a simple and direct conversion, as opposed to having to buy a level 25 and 3 or more others, (allowing for some chance at failure after the first combination), not to mention needing to enter the enhancement slotting window before attaining the final level you wanted, then having to exit and purchase more, if a failure does occur.

 

I was actually not aware of the test server menu. Your answers are sufficient for me support your suggestion.

[Greycat]

4 hours ago, biostem said:

Because that was never part of my suggestion, nor does it provide for the much quicker & streamlined process I suggested.  If, for instance, I had 3 level 28 acc enh's and wanted a level 28 def, it'd be a simple and direct conversion, as opposed to having to buy a level 25 and 3 or more others, (allowing for some chance at failure after the first combination), not to mention needing to enter the enhancement slotting window before attaining the final level you wanted, then having to exit and purchase more, if a failure does occur.

 

... hit the "upgrade" button in the lower left corner of the enhancement slotting window?

[biostem]

1 hour ago, Greycat said:

... hit the "upgrade" button in the lower left corner of the enhancement slotting window?

You'd still have to enter the enh window, hit upgrade, then if any attempts fail, exit out, buy more, and try again, or just buy more than you might need, in that event.  A simple right click -> combine -> select what you want would be much faster and a more elegant solution.

Edited June 7, 2023 by biostem

[Rudra]

If you're already buying the SOs to go through all that... then why not just buy the SO you need?