XP from Confused Enemies

[flinlock]

I’m curious what people would think about allowing experience gain from confusion powers. Currently, if you confuse an enemy, and he kills another enemy, you get zero experience. I find this a real bummer, and avoid using confuse powers (or even taking them) because of it. I almost never see them used by other players either. 
 

what’s the reasoning behind confuse nullifying XP gain? It costs you a power pick and slots, you use it on enemies, it kills them. Killing enemies via confuse is certainly not more effective than using an attack power… it would take FOREVER to clear mobs using only confuse powers. No one is gonna be running around farming via World of Confusion 😂

[biostem]

The problem is that the confused enemy is still of a different faction than the player.  You'd have to create some mechanism by which they temporarily become an ally while confused - more of a charm power than a confused one.  IIRC, dealing like at least 10% of the damage will still net you the XP.

[Rudra]

11 minutes ago, biostem said:

The problem is that the confused enemy is still of a different faction than the player.  You'd have to create some mechanism by which they temporarily become an ally while confused - more of a charm power than a confused one.  IIRC, dealing like at least 10% of the damage will still net you the XP.

Except as a confused enemy, they do not trigger counter-attacks from the other mobs when they attack. Changing them to be of your faction would result in the other mobs killing that mob, most likely before that mob can really do anything helpful. I would rather the confused mobs not give players xp for the damage they do and the mobs they defeat than have confuse become a waste in that any mobs I confuse are basically immediately killed while also alerting the other mobs to my presence.

[Biff Pow]

I like it when a confused Boss wipes out some Minions for me. They're not worth much xp and it speeds things up so I can get to the next group and next Boss.

[flinlock]

1 hour ago, biostem said:

The problem is that the confused enemy is still of a different faction than the player.  You'd have to create some mechanism by which they temporarily become an ally while confused - more of a charm power than a confused one.  IIRC, dealing like at least 10% of the damage will still net you the XP.

Ahh... that makes sense. I hadn't considered that it might be a technical reason 😬

[Wobegone]

There was a terrific thread in the old CoH forums about confuse and xp.  The TLDR version of that is simply make sure you do at least a little damage to as many foes as possible.  You still get partial xp for enemies primarily defeated by Confusion.  The other take is your xp per hour increases if you solo using confusion provided you  follow the above.  

Edited June 27, 2023 by Ignatz the Insane

[KaizenSoze]

Besides the technical issue that Biostem pointed out. I don't think this is a good idea.

 

Confusion in CoX is already extremely powerful, especially the non-notify versions. 

 

If you could get full exp for defeats, I bet confusion farms would appear.

 

Also, tough bosses and AV would be led around to defeat everything. Too much room for exploits.

[nihilii]

5 hours ago, Ignatz the Insane said:

There was a terrific thread in the old CoH forums about confuse and xp.  The TLDR version of that is simply make sure you do at least a little damage to as many foes as possible.  You still get partial xp for enemies primarily defeated by Confusion.  The other take is your xp per hour increases if you solo using confusion provided you  follow the above.  

Right, IIRC you get more XP for damage dealt proportionally with Confuse that you would otherwise. i.e., if you deal 20% of the damage you get 50% of the exp, something like that.

[Outrider_01]

Confuse takes a smidge of the exp unless you are just sitting around doing nothing. Confuse is best used to soften an alpha attack, do some AoE damage from boss attacks, and throw debuffs from npc on their allies.

[honoroit]

its best, for me at any rate, to think of confuse purely as damage mitigation, with a touch of dps.  

 

there is a small tax - put that from your mind.  in steamrolled content, it is effective cc and the smoothing it brings outweighs any race for xp per unit time.

 

 

now, if youre farming and it effects inf gain per mob, that balance comes in still. are you staying 'more' alive and killing more mob per unit time because of offset recovery youd otherwise engage? thats calculus for your character optimization.  

 

the sentiment (dont worry about it) remains.

 

Edited June 27, 2023 by honoroit

[Greycat]

Just do a little damage and, bam, XP. 

[Psyonico]

If you do damage, you get more than that percentage of XP, so confusing a group and then dealing damage nets more XP/hour than you'd think.

[Crasical]

 

If a confused enemy does 50% of an enemy's HP, I get 80% of that enemy's XP value. If they do almost all the work and do 90% of the HP value, I still get 30% of the exp value. To quote a famous businessman; "I punch those numbers into my calculator, it makes a happy face."

 

Furthermore, you have to remember that you're not trying to squeeze every ounce of exp out of a finite number of mobs: Especially since there's a completion bonus for missions, it can be more efficient to crash through smashing your way to the objective and back rather than hunting down every hiding mob on the map. You can always click a few buttons and get a brand new mission. EXP is a river. Infinite mobs -> Infinite exp -> It's acceptable to trade some of that exp for speed -> If using confuse speeds your play, you should use confuse.

 

EDIT: Also, this is also only considering confusing a beatstick enemy. Confused enemies don't just attack their allies, they also heal and buff you and your friends. Confusing a longbow mender so that I get a forcefield and heals is great.

Edited June 27, 2023 by Crasical

[Nyghtmaire]

Confuse = great. I abuse confusion powers with every character that can take it. Hell, I even use it solo on my psi melee scrapper (Boggle FTW). It’s not that I need the assistance so much as a) it’s hilarious, and b) boosts Insight chance. And with the current build focus being generally geared towards every power being a damage power - procs and the like - it’s much easier to boost XP gain on confusion-using controllers and dominators. 
 

(another side note - Symphony’s Impassioned Serenade might be the one place those confusion damage procs are desired rather than avoided) 

[flinlock]

3 hours ago, Crasical said:

If a confused enemy does 50% of an enemy's HP, I get 80% of that enemy's XP value. If they do almost all the work and do 90% of the HP value, I still get 30% of the exp value. To quote a famous businessman; "I punch those numbers into my calculator, it makes a happy face."

Thanks for this (and thanks everyone else who said the same thing in a different way). I never realized that it was a curve like this. Time to worry less and confuse more! 

[Player2]

I say reward use of the power by making confused targets worth 2xp while they are confused.  You can't get XP for what they kill, but you can make confusing them worthwhile.

[Greycat]

20 hours ago, Player2 said:

I say reward use of the power by making confused targets worth 2xp while they are confused.  You can't get XP for what they kill, but you can make confusing them worthwhile.

 

I *already* make confusing them worthwhile... by having them start in on problematic enemies, by having them buff me, or bringing joy to my teammates when a confused Sapper zaps the rest of the spawn instead of them.

[srmalloy]

2 hours ago, Greycat said:

I *already* make confusing them worthwhile... by having them start in on problematic enemies, by having them buff me, or bringing joy to my teammates when a confused Sapper zaps the rest of the spawn instead of them.

Confusing Sky Raider Engineers is profitable, too; having them drop FFGs that buff your team's Def is endlessly entertaining.