Steamy Mist: Go

[Solarverse]

Had a simmering argument with another player today over my use of Steamy Mist on my Ice/Storm Corruptor. It went a little something like this. (Short Version)

Player A (I won't name the guy) on Moonfire went to grab the NPC at the end of the mission. most of us were fighting our way through and were somewhere in the center of the mission map, nowhere near the Player A who was trying to grab the hostage. Player A grabs the hostage, Player B uses Teleport to bring all of us back to the mission door, but the hostage did not teleport, the hostage stayed behind and died, mission failed.

 

Next thing I know, Player A is going on about how Stealth causes NPCs to lose track of you and not follow. Of course, I thought everyone knew this by now, but meh, whatever. I checked Player A's build and he did indeed have Stealth in his build. No biggie, who cares is what I thought. Didn't say a word other than give support to the statement of Stealth causes NPCs to lose track of the player they are following.

Next thing I know, Player A is ripping me for having Steamy Mist in my build and says that stealth is better and that nobody wants a player on their team with an AoE Stealth. At this point I am confused as to why this dude, who lost the NPC, is harping on me and my powers, especially since I was nowhere near the guy when he lost the NPC. I argued that I have been playing the game since it was first released and I don't think I am going to be letting some other player dictate to me which powers I can play and which I cannot. He went on to say how he also played since day 1 (and proceeded to tell me that a /Storm Troller was his first character and knows the set in and out; as if most of us hasn't had extensive experience with every powerset in game by this point...20 years and all) and argued that Steamy Mist was useless and Stealth from the power pool was superior. I mentioned that Stealth was not superior, since Steamy Mist grants resists to Fire/Cold/Energy/Confuse. I let it go from there because, well...it was my team, I was team lead, I put the team together, and if he was going to continue being an ass, I was just going to boot him from the TF and be done with the guy. Thankfully he also let it go, so I didn't have to give him the boot after all.

So here is my issue; minus the fact that I had absolutely nothing to do with this Brute who lost the NPC, not once has anyone ever dished on Steamy Mist like that in what, 20 years now that I have been playing? Why the hate on Steamy Mist all of a sudden? I have been gone from the game for a year or two and just came back, has something transpired since I took a break till now that I am not aware of? What was this dude's trip? I could understand had I been in the room with him running it (which I would not have) and caused his problem, however, I had zero to do with any of that. So I am not sure what his malfunction was. I'm just glad I am 48 years old now and not the 28 year old I was when this game came out...otherwise I would have told the guy to @&#$!% off and booted the guy.

Anyway, after having that conversation, it made wonder what the general consensuses is on Steamy Mist. What is your personal take on it and why?

And please, don't give me that, "play what you want, it's as good as the player makes it" nonsense; I will most certainly play what I want...nobody is going to tell me what I can and cannot use on my character. However,  I'm looking for real reasons people hate it or love it and hopefully figure out why this dude made such a controversy over it. What is your personal opinion of the power, and why?

Thanks ahead of time.

 

 

Edited July 30, 2023 by Solarverse
Typo

[Shocktacular]

For me (and pretty much everyone I've talked to in-game about it), Steamy Mist is definitely a "must have" power in the Storm Summoning set, often 5- or 6-slotted, since it takes both defense and resist sets.  The only time it's a problem is when it's interfering with an NPC follow and the person with it just WILL NOT turn it off for whatever reason.  I have seen people kicked for this (rightfully, in my opinion).  Since you weren't anywhere near this guy, such interference couldn't have been the issue here.  I think he was just lashing out because he was frustrated at failing the mission.

[Uun]

Steamy Mist, Arctic Fog and Shadow Fall are valuable powers, primarily for the defense and resists, not the stealth. I always take them and usually 6-slot them. Skipping them is just foolish.

[Hedgefund2]

Odd, the top 2 threads in the Corr forum at this moment are about aoe stealth/def/res auras (Steamy Mist and Shadow Fall) and how some players are saying don't take them because Stealth is a better power.  I wish it were easy to get them to be more informed, these are obviously not just good powers but even keystone powers.  There are  just dum-dums out there that want to stay dum-dums it seems.

 

To directly answer the question posed in the OP - Steamy Mist (like Shadow Fall and Arctic Fog) is fantastic and I can't conceive of ever skipping it.  All of these even have a "secret" (not really a secret it's in the info but not a primary reason people take these powers) resistance.  Mist for confuse, SF for fear and fog for slows/rch debuffs.

Edited July 30, 2023 by Hedgefund2

[Wimbochismo]

Just to be thorough on the stealth aura toggle threads around, I wanted to paste the info from the Issue 27 Page 5 stealth patch notes:

 

         Stealth Toggle Exclusivity Removal

Player Stealth Toggles, with the exception of temporary powers, are no longer exclusive. Players can now use multiple stealth toggle powers at the same time, however the stealth radius, defense, and threat level of these powers will not stack. Instead, the strongest effect from these powers will be used (much like how travel power stacking currently works). The powers that fall within these stealth toggle rules are listed below.

List of Stealth Toggles

• Arctic Fog
• Cloak of Darkness
• Cloaking Device
• Energy Cloak
• Field Operative
• Infiltration
• Mask Presence
• Shadow Fall
• Shinobi
• Shinobi-Iri
• Stealth
• Steamy Mist
• Super Speed
• Superior Invisibility

 

If you take one of the stealth aura toggles, it will practically invalidate the use of Stealth. I typically dip into Concealment for the easy LotG's and for the Stealth defense toggle. When Stealth is suppressed in combat it provides the same defense as Hover/CJ at 2.13. Although Stealth has 55ft stealth, the aura's have 35.5ft. This defense/stealth will not stack, but luckily aura's provide more defense/res - as @Uun pointed out, 3.75 def and 15 res.

 

The +stealth enhancement in sprint etc will still stack up the stealth. It's good to be aware of these interactions when discussing Stealth and stealth aura's.

Edited July 30, 2023 by Wimbochismo

[Solarverse]

2 hours ago, Wimbochismo said:

Just to be thorough on the stealth aura toggle threads around, I wanted to paste the info from the Issue 27 Page 5 stealth patch notes:

 

         Stealth Toggle Exclusivity Removal

Player Stealth Toggles, with the exception of temporary powers, are no longer exclusive. Players can now use multiple stealth toggle powers at the same time, however the stealth radius, defense, and threat level of these powers will not stack. Instead, the strongest effect from these powers will be used (much like how travel power stacking currently works). The powers that fall within these stealth toggle rules are listed below.

List of Stealth Toggles

• Arctic Fog
• Cloak of Darkness
• Cloaking Device
• Energy Cloak
• Field Operative
• Infiltration
• Mask Presence
• Shadow Fall
• Shinobi
• Shinobi-Iri
• Stealth
• Steamy Mist
• Super Speed
• Superior Invisibility

 

If you take one of the stealth aura toggles, it will practically invalidate the use of Stealth. I typically dip into Concealment for the easy LotG's and for the Stealth defense toggle. When Stealth is suppressed in combat it provides the same defense as Hover/CJ at 2.13. Although Stealth has 55ft stealth, the aura's have 35.5ft. This defense/stealth will not stack, but luckily aura's provide more defense/res - as @Uun pointed out, 3.75 def and 15 res.

 

The +stealth enhancement in sprint etc will still stack up the stealth. It's good to be aware of these interactions when discussing Stealth and stealth aura's.

 

Just to be clear, although I do believe you covered this; are you saying the my Steamy Mist and another player's Steamy Mist will not stack the Resist and Defense stats? Or is it just the Stealth that won't stack? (although I must say I do not believe the Stealth ever did stack...not that I can remember anyway.)

[Hedgefund2]

"Toggle exclusivity" is for A player's toggles not stacking, for example Steamy Mist and Super Speed.  It does not involve interaction with other players.  

 

All my Stormies happen to be on the same account, but I do have Colds on different accounts so here's the result for Arctic Fog's stealth using 2 different Colds:

 

 

This one shows def and res stacking for different AFs.

 

 

Edited July 30, 2023 by Hedgefund2

[Frosticus]

9 hours ago, Solarverse said:

Anyway, after having that conversation, it made wonder what the general consensuses is on Steamy Mist. What is your personal take on it and why?

 

Far too often players are making the claim that they have played for "x" amount of time, or they have "tested and proven" something they actually know very little about. It is frustrating and difficult to ignore.

 

It doesn't matter what the general consensus, or someone's personal  take, is.

All that matters is that you understand the power.

 

You do and you have it on your build because of that.

 

 

[Solarverse]

31 minutes ago, Hedgefund2 said:

"Toggle exclusivity" is for A player's toggles not stacking, for example Steamy Mist and Super Speed.  It does not involve interaction with other players.  

 

All my Stormies happen to be on the same account, but I do have Colds on different accounts so here's the result for Arctic Fog's stealth using 2 different Colds:

 

 

This one shows def and res stacking for different AFs.

 

 

 

Okay, good. So the Defense and Resist values stack, however, the Stealth values do not. Thanks for the clarification. I suspected as much, but after having that tiff with the other player, I wanted to be absolute sure that nothing has changed since I had left the game.
 

[Hedgefund2]

Stealth does stack, you can see in the first image.

 

35.5 (AF player 1) + 35.5 (AF player 2) = 71

[Captain Fabulous]

Steamy Mist is a great power. Anyone who says otherwise is a clown.

[SeraphimKensai]

The only time people shut off steamy mist or any other AoE stealth power is during escorts. But if they were at the other end of the map it's not your fault they lost contact with the npc. Especially if combat status dropped and they were running stealth.

 

Then again for that particular mission it doesn't matter the outcome as it still advances to the next mission.

 

And as others have said regarding the AoE stealth toggles, they all also offer some degree of resistance/defense and purposely skipping them is like running a race with lead shoes.

[Booper]

26 minutes ago, Hedgefund2 said:

Stealth does stack, you can see in the first image.

 

35.5 (AF player 1) + 35.5 (AF player 2) = 71

It doesn't stack from same player. So yes, AoE stealth from Player 2 will add/stack with your stealth. But if you had both stealth and an AoE stealth, you'll only get whatever is strongest.

[Solarverse]

1 hour ago, Hedgefund2 said:

Stealth does stack, you can see in the first image.

 

35.5 (AF player 1) + 35.5 (AF player 2) = 71

Doh! So it does, but now I am confused. I thought people were trying to tell me that it does not.

 

Edit: However, after seeing Booper's response, that clears up the confusion, thanks.  🙂

Edited July 30, 2023 by Solarverse

[lemming]

I'm going to guess Dr Todd.

The Brute must have lost Todd just before the teleport, though if you don't teleport Todd right to the door with ATT, she sometimes will run back to her doom. Especially if the person with her doesn't take the teleport.

 

I have gotten annoyed at a Steamy Mist, etc... when someone did a driveby while I was escorting a hostage, but this was certainly not the case this time.  Though we could do a test with several people.  Have one subject at the door with stealth, have one with stealth grab Dr Todd and stand next to so she's still on the person, and another with AOE Stealth not by either.   Then ATT and see if a failure happens because stealth adding up messes it up if Todd is one of the last ones teleported.

 

It's a twitchy mission.

 

And yea, while I'm one of those "I was on Beta!", it really doesn't mean that much.  If anything, we're remembering how a power used to work.

[Solarverse]

6 minutes ago, lemming said:

I'm going to guess Dr Todd.

The Brute must have lost Todd just before the teleport, though if you don't teleport Todd right to the door with ATT, she sometimes will run back to her doom. Especially if the person with her doesn't take the teleport.

 

I have gotten annoyed at a Steamy Mist, etc... when someone did a driveby while I was escorting a hostage, but this was certainly not the case this time.  Though we could do a test with several people.  Have one subject at the door with stealth, have one with stealth grab Dr Todd and stand next to so she's still on the person, and another with AOE Stealth not by either.   Then ATT and see if a failure happens because stealth adding up messes it up if Todd is one of the last ones teleported.

 

It's a twitchy mission.

 

And yea, while I'm one of those "I was on Beta!", it really doesn't mean that much.  If anything, we're remembering how a power used to work.

 

I am open to test it out if you like. My girlfriend and I both have a /Storm Corruptor, so we can both assist in testing this. (assuming we both play on the same server. I play Excelsior.)

[kelika2]

3 ribos, 2 defenses of your choice, 1 lotg

[Hjarki]

Personally, I think these powers would be better if the Stealth component were removed. Or, at the very least, made personal to the player. I can't recall any instance outside of a fire farm where giving someone else Stealth was particularly helpful. But, as noted above, it can cause hassles  Indeed, this goes beyond just support sets. On my */Ninja Blaster, I have to turn off my damage-augmenting/defense-granting Shinobi any time I end up escorting someone. If Shinobi didn't provide Stealth at all and I was forced to take the Concealment pool, I'd be perfectly happy.

 

So perhaps the solution is just to give escorts hyper-perception so they can see through Stealth.

 

Until then, bitching about someone taking one of the central powers of a set because it causes some degree of inconvenience every now and then isn't particularly sensible.

[lemming]

2 hours ago, Solarverse said:

 

I am open to test it out if you like. My girlfriend and I both have a /Storm Corruptor, so we can both assist in testing this. (assuming we both play on the same server. I play Excelsior.)

I have a bunch of characters on Excelsior.   Won't be really able to test until next weekend maybe, since I am in the midst of a move.

[lemming]

1 hour ago, Hjarki said:

So perhaps the solution is just to give escorts hyper-perception so they can see through Stealth.

Either this, or the ability to stuff them into a sack

[Hedgefund2]

31 minutes ago, lemming said:

Either this, or the ability to stuff them into a sack

I would absolutely /signoff on the ability to knock out and carry out a hostage, I'll happily take a -speed debuff (about -10) in exchange.

[Hjarki]

2 hours ago, Hedgefund2 said:

I would absolutely /signoff on the ability to knock out and carry out a hostage, I'll happily take a -speed debuff (about -10) in exchange.

They can add it with the "no, really, please stop 'helping'" command you can give to friendly NPCs.

[SeraphimKensai]

17 hours ago, lemming said:

Either this, or the ability to stuff them into a sack

This reminds me of a D&D session where I was playing as a homebrewed Treant (living tree) that could eat things and transport them to a pocket dimension and recall them by regurgitation in the state they were albeit covered in sap. It promptly ate our dwarf fighter in the party and won the rolls to do so, so one of our party rerolled and made a new character.

 

During an encounter with a boss, my Treant puked up the dwarf fighter after his half elven ranger died in the fight. The player was able to resume playing the fighter albeit had a -2 penalty put on his dex rolls until he.was able to bathe.

 

Definitely down for stuffing npcs into a bag of holding.

[UltraAlt]

19 minutes ago, SeraphimKensai said:

Definitely down for stuffing npcs into a bag of holding.

 

Don't even get me started about abusing bags of holding.

 

Oh, well .... there was this time that a guy was reaching around inside of a bag a holding .... and he forgot that they had stuck a werewolf in the bag and ...

 

I said don't get me started, I didn't say I would finish the story!

[Without_Pause]

It's weird how some people focus on the personal aspect of a power versus what the power is providing for the team. I find the Def based PBAoE toggles for support characters are critical powers in their builds.