More P2W Temp powers and permatemps

[Starhammer]

I'd love to see more powers (mostly attacks) added to the P2W menu, especially some of the mundane guns, like the Shotgun or Minigun. They're just wonderful for rounding out a character that conceptually should have access to something like that but isn't built around it (not that those are weapon costume options for AR anyway).

I'd also like to see some of the existing temps get a "permanent" (unlimited charges) purchase option for probably 10 mil inf. Weapons, Buffs, or Jetpacks, they can't be enhanced, so they're rarely game breaking, and you're usually better off tactically for using powers from your build, but for the ones you include because they fit the concept better, it's annoying to have to go buy refills.

[Saiyajinzoningen]

Maybe we can expand the munitions mastery epic power pool to other AT's?

[Fade]

I dig both ideas, though I suspect permanent versions of Envenomed Dagger and the buffs (Offensive Amplifier, etc.) would likely be too powerful.

[Rudra]

I'm all for having more P2W temp powers. Like the pistol, bow and arrow, and uzi. To a point, I'm even in favor of them being perma-temps. Except, aren't they supposed to be inf' sinks? In a game overflowing with it, what other high demand items would be available to fill that role?

 

(Also, I am very much against things the amplifiers being perma with a single purchase. Buffs from P2W should need to be bought on a regular basis. Firstly, because it helps maintain an inf' sink. And secondly because I don't think we should have permanent temporary buffs.)

[Akisan]

8 hours ago, Starhammer said:

I'd love to see more powers (mostly attacks) added to the P2W menu, especially some of the mundane guns, like the Shotgun or Minigun. They're just wonderful for rounding out a character that conceptually should have access to something like that but isn't built around it (not that those are weapon costume options for AR anyway).

 

Fine by me.  Many of these basic powers can be aquired infinitely (if randomly) by stopping the weapons deals in bank missions.  I'd definitely pay inf. to give some of my characters thematic side weapons instead of continuosly grinding bank missions.

 

I'll agree with @Rudra though - they are (and should be) inf. sinks, so if they get a perma option, it'd have to be expensive - maybe not inf cap expensive, but still up there a ways.

[Captain Fabulous]

/powercreep

[Greycat]

More P2W powers could be interesting, sure. I know I have a few that carry thinngs like a backup pistol and such that aren't available in their powersets.

 

Going temp to perm, though... I think would depend on the power. No, you can't enhance them, but some (like envenomed dagger) have a bit too much of an effect. With a high enough cost, things like the pistols or whatnot may still serve as as much of an INF sink as they do now. Something like the jetpack might still need to have an expiration to serve as that, though.

[Rudra]

2 hours ago, Greycat said:

With a high enough cost, things like the pistols or whatnot may still serve as as much of an INF sink as they do now.

Maybe 20x cost of the temp power itself for perma for things like pistols and other not high end/OP P2W powers? That would be a nice big inf' sink. (Or if they aren't already, make those temp powers stackable for charges?)

[Greycat]

2 hours ago, Rudra said:

Maybe 20x cost of the temp power itself for perma for things like pistols and other not high end/OP P2W powers? That would be a nice big inf' sink. (Or if they aren't already, make those temp powers stackable for charges?)

*shrug* Depends on the power as to if that's reasonable or not, I guess. Most are stackable, I believe.

 

Looking at the attacks in P2W, most are 5000, some are 50,000 (Envenomed daggerx30 and Smoke Grenadex20) and one' s500,000 (smoke flash, 10 charges - which... uh... ) and stack from 10 (smoke flash) to to 30 charges (most.)

 

(So for instance, st louis slammer, the bat, you pay 5000 for 30 charges, and can have up to 300. Costs you 50,000 to fill up.)

 

The "combat" ones (kinetic shield, power analyzer, etc.) are already more expensive - all 50-500,000 each - and let you purchase 10 sets of them (like Ethereal Shift, 5 charges for 500,000, you can stack up to 50 total charges)

 

Summons are the most expensive, with backup radio (5 charges, stack up to 50) at 500k per, and the signature summons being 5 charges for 10m, you can have up to 99 charges (... has anyone done this?) 

 

Travel all measures itself in terms of hours - 30 minutes per purchase, up to 5 hours, so 10 charges.

 

I don't think anyone's mentioning travel or summons being perma in this case... though 200 million for a perma temp Statesman or Recluse... >.> That does seem like the inf sink area though (aside from, indirectly-ish, the xp boosters.)

 

So, the pistol (Revolver, 30 charges, 5000 inf) you can *currently* get to 300 charges (stack of 10) as a temp power for 50,000.  20x its power would only be 100,000. Which, granted, it's not a super hard hitter. It'd still be in range of someone wanting to pick it up early for a character. I don't know that it'd cover the inf sink... I'm kind of curious how many people pick it or the grenades up (I do know I do with some. Even Plasmatic Taser.)

[Sakura Tenshi]

I just want the temp powers you can get from mayhem/safeguard armsdeal side missions plus maybe the minigun too from the Chance McKnight mission in Praetoria. Really, I just want my monster hunter guy to have a shotgun.

[Starhammer]

Yes, this is mostly about 5000 inf equivalent temp power attacks, most importantly more variety for the sake of theme, maybe some more jet pack equivalents, preferably including something less tech themed. Permanent versions would just be a convenience thing, so like 1 or 10 million inf. The buffs, envenomed dagger, and summons are definitely unsuitable for this idea... some of the other grenade options? maybe. I really don't get much use from the 50k ones anyway. Once something is that expensive it has to offer a significant costume/theme benefit, which they really don't.

I really just want to see more existing assets made useful on a cosmetic level in a more convenient manner. Farming bank jobs for shotgun charges isn't worth the time.

[TheZag]

Pay per use.  Feels very billionaire vigilante appropriate to me.  A selection of powers that remain in your tray and charge you each time you use them without having to refill at the transact 4 victory vendor 😃

 

[Chance Jackson]

I strongly support this, some Syndicate enemies have a vacuum cut DB attack that would be great to get as a permanent temp power or even just a repurchasable version that allows an absurd quantity.

 

Ditto for Hamidon group fly, Mayhem flamethrower, & all weapons available as temps for flavor

Edited August 18, 2023 by Chance Jackson

[MGoblin256]

A purchasable version of the Rikti Rifle and possibly the Rikti Drone summon that you get from Ambassador Kuhr'Rekt's first story arc would be nice.

Edited August 19, 2023 by MGoblin256

[A.I.D.A.]

What if the perma versions cost inf on use equal to the cost of a charge?

 

For example, the revolver costs 5,000 for 30 charges, so each charge costs 166.6-repeating inf. What if the perma version could be acquired for free, but deleted 167 inf every time you shot it, and couldn't be used if you didn't have enough? That way, you can have a thematically-appropriate, unenhanceable side weapon, without having to dip back to Atlas Park to replace it every three missions, and pay for exactly how many charges you use.

 

Alternatively, keep them the same, but have each one come with a power that summons a vendor that sells new copies of the power it came with.

 

Edited August 20, 2023 by A.I.D.A.

[lemming]

4 hours ago, A.I.D.A. said:

Alternatively, keep them the same, but have each one come with a power that summons a vendor that sells new copies of the power it came with.

Not sure on the logistics, but an outside the mission /p2w or /t4v slash command similar to auction house would be handy.

It would also be nice if all the p2w vendors were accessible during Task Forces & AE. Currently Pocket D, Echo Plaza, Fort Trident, and The Cruicible will sell you stuff, others will not talk to you.

Edited August 20, 2023 by lemming

[Starhammer]

On 8/20/2023 at 4:54 AM, A.I.D.A. said:

What if the perma versions cost inf on use equal to the cost of a charge?

 

For example, the revolver costs 5,000 for 30 charges, so each charge costs 166.6-repeating inf. What if the perma version could be acquired for free, but deleted 167 inf every time you shot it, and couldn't be used if you didn't have enough? That way, you can have a thematically-appropriate, unenhanceable side weapon, without having to dip back to Atlas Park to replace it every three missions, and pay for exactly how many charges you use.

 

Alternatively, keep them the same, but have each one come with a power that summons a vendor that sells new copies of the power it came with.

 

First, I'd say round it up to 200 inf for simplicity and call it a convenience fee.

Otherwise, what are the numbers in practice? Let's say you make [Revolver] a part of your standard attack sequence using macros/binds... how many times are you likely to activate it per enemy, and how many enemies per mission on average (obviously those numbers vary by mission size and difficulty settings). How much would that end up costing to go through a mission? Maybe scale it down to per enemy for better relevance, would you spend more than you earn (just inf loot, not random loot you can sell)? How many activations if you use it exclusively?

Remember, the foremost point is about adding power variety to characters for theme, rather than raw performance, so if it gets too expensive, it stops being a good idea... and if it actually has too significant an effect on performance, the P2W vendor gets a little too on the nose. Optimally, none of these powers should be more optimal, even in high numbers, than your standard attack chain... except in limited circumstances.

[A.I.D.A.]

12 hours ago, Starhammer said:

First, I'd say round it up to 200 inf for simplicity and call it a convenience fee.

Otherwise, what are the numbers in practice? Let's say you make [Revolver] a part of your standard attack sequence using macros/binds... how many times are you likely to activate it per enemy, and how many enemies per mission on average (obviously those numbers vary by mission size and difficulty settings). How much would that end up costing to go through a mission? Maybe scale it down to per enemy for better relevance, would you spend more than you earn (just inf loot, not random loot you can sell)? How many activations if you use it exclusively?

Remember, the foremost point is about adding power variety to characters for theme, rather than raw performance, so if it gets too expensive, it stops being a good idea... and if it actually has too significant an effect on performance, the P2W vendor gets a little too on the nose. Optimally, none of these powers should be more optimal, even in high numbers, than your standard attack chain... except in limited circumstances.

 

My suggestion changes nothing about the temp powers' costs, it only eliminates the need to return to Atlas Park to buy more charges. If you take your Envenomed Daggers GM hunting and blow through 15 charges to put a dent in the Giant Monster regen, it won't matter whether you bought them from Atlas Park or paid for them through the power activation costing inf when you throw it. You're still paying 1,667 influence per shot.

 

Do we need to make them cost more? In the case of Envenomed Daggers, almost certainly, they're extremely cheap for the DPA and -regen they bring to the table.

 

In the case of the others . . . ? Probably not.

 

Either way, thanks to this thread for reminding me to buy my stalkers some hand grenades and plasmatic tasers, to make up for the low amount of AoE.