Lets talk Regeneration Set

[liveevil2000]

I've been wanting to use the Regeneration set for a while, but after looking it over, it seems to have extremely limited Def/Res. So making a Tank, Brute, Scrapper, etc... utilizing this set seems like it would be tough to survive.

Or am I missing something?

I get it allows you to gain HP back at an accelerated rate and has self heals, but is that enough to survive / offset the amount of damage coming in?

Also, does it work better for a specific AT like a Tank since its a primary set for them? I'm guessing yes, but by how much?

Edited September 19, 2023 by liveevil2000

[Vanden]

Oh no... must we?

[liveevil2000]

yeah, kinda ... yes we must.

[arcane]

Regeneration is not a Tanker powerset btw

[Solarverse]

3 minutes ago, liveevil2000 said:

I've been wanting to use the Regeneration set for a while, but after looking it over, it seems to have extremely limited Def/Res. So making a Tank, Brute, Scrapper, etc... utilizing this set seems like it would be tough to survive.

Or am I missing something?

I get it allows you to gain HP back at an accelerated rate and has self heals, but is that enough to survive / offset the amount of damage coming in?

Also, does it work better for a specific AT like a Tank since its a primary set for them? I'm guessing yes, but by how much?

 

My man, I just tried to have this conversation and for reasons far beyond my comprehension, there are some posters here who think the set is just fine and dandy despite what the rest of us know to be true...the set is trash, it has been trash since issue 5 and will continue to be for the duration of this game. Why is that? Because Regeneration is just one of those sets that will never be fixed until literally nobody is left riding the "Regeneration is fine" train; meaning, there cannot be a single player who thinks it is fine, otherwise a fix to the set will never happen. It is the red headed stepchild of sets, most likely due to the way it performed pre i5, and it left a bad taste in people's mouths...except for the players who loved it. So in short answer, the set is what it is and it will very highly likely remain as is.

[liveevil2000]

4 minutes ago, arcane said:

Regeneration is not a Tanker powerset btw

my bad, didnt realize, thanks!

 

2 minutes ago, Solarverse said:

 

My man, I just tried to have this conversation and for reasons far beyond my comprehension, there are some posters here who think the set is just fine and dandy despite what the rest of us know to be true...the set is trash, it has been trash since issue 5 and will continue to be for the duration of this game. Why is that? Because Regeneration is just one of those sets that will never be fixed until literally nobody is left riding the "Regeneration is fine" train; meaning, there cannot be a single player who thinks it is fine, otherwise a fix to the set will never happen. It is the red headed stepchild of sets, most likely due to the way it performed pre i5, and it left a bad taste in people's mouths...except for the players who loved it. So in short answer, the set is what it is and it will very highly likely remain as is.

ok, so basically I'm not missing anything. 

Too bad, 

[Solarverse]

Just now, liveevil2000 said:

my bad, didnt realize, thanks!

 

ok, so basically I'm not missing anything. 

Too bad, 

 

Pretty much. I mean, you can eventually make it worth something with IO's, however, it will never stack up to literally any other powerset in game. It does perform rather well in 1v1 PvP though, so then there is that. But honestly, PvP is dead in this game, it has been dead ever since the Diminishing Returns nerf. The best PvPers this game has ever seen left this game a very long time ago due to the nerfs. You have a few players of today that PvP, but it's a very small circle of players and what they are PvPing with in this game is a husk of what it once was....so not sure how much time I would waste with that...if any.

[cranebump]

I've only run Regen past L20 on a couple of Sentinels, and it's...okay. But, if I wanted it to do what other, more diverse sets do (lake Rad Armor, which gives me +regen, +res, a self-heal, and a Pboe that also heals allies), I'd have to cherry pick from ancillary pools for other powers. Since this is the case, it makes more sense to go with what already has diversity built into it, unless I'm running a theme toon. I wouldn't go so far to call it trash, probably because I'm not a min-max build expert.  I'm not a complete idiot, either, though, and, in my less-than-full-expert view, the set feels like it's significantly more work to create a build to take on more than default mission play. For a casual-play toon, though? It's fine.:-)

 

Edited September 19, 2023 by cranebump

[Without_Pause]

Outside of the nerfs, you have to go outside of the box a bit to get it a decent level of mitigation. The problem is the standard isn't old school diff settings anymore where Regen would be fine at. Not when people can make builds which solo a high percentage of maps at +4/x8. In the list of issues for Regen, it doesn't even have resistance to being debuffed for what it does. It should at a minimum resist -regen and -recharge. I do think there are times when instead of fixing a set, the devs simply make a new one, see Willpower.

[Psi-bolt]

Sigh….

 

Regen is fine.  Any of the protection power sets by themselves are fine.  Any of the protection sets, including Regen, with decent investment is amazing.

 

I have both a Regen Brute and a Regen Scrapper with capped Smashing, Lethal resistance and 25-35% to everything else.  They don’t die in +4/x8 spawns.  
 

All that said, Instant Healing could stand to be replaced with a resistance or defense toggle.  Preferably defense.  

 

[furniturepolish]

uberguy says Instant Healing has a cast time of 1.17s. I think if we're getting this set buffed any time soon, we need to start small. make Instant Healing instant, get that "arcana time" out of there.

[Psi-bolt]

1 hour ago, Solarverse said:

 

Pretty much. I mean, you can eventually make it worth something with IO's, however, it will never stack up to literally any other powerset in game. 

The thing is almost every power set needs IOs in order to be worth something.   Any defense set (well except maybe Tanker SR) needs to improve its defense to get to the softcap.  Most resistance focused sets needs help to cap out the most important resistances.  Both kinds of sets need to layer on the other type to get really good.  
 

Regen is really no different.  Its problem is that, yes, it is too focused on clicks which pushes you to build differently than most folks are used to.  But I don’t find that it takes more investment that any other melee armor set to get good.

[Psi-bolt]

2 minutes ago, furniturepolish said:

uberguy says Instant Healing has a cast time of 1.17s. I think if we're getting this set buffed any time soon, we need to start small. make Instant Healing instant, get that "arcana time" out of there.

If we are trying to get Regen where it is perceived to be even with the other sets it needs another toggle.  The set is too click heavy, my comments above notwithstanding

 

 

 

[Solarverse]

8 minutes ago, Psi-bolt said:

Sigh….

 

Regen is fine. 

 

 

Nope. Also not buying that you are running +4 x8 mobs solo either, especially not Arachnos. Sorry, Psi-bolt, I know better than that. No Psi Resist, not much Toxic Resist to speak of, they cream your Defense and Resistances and you have absolutely no DDR or RDR to speak of, it doesn't matter how high your resistance is or Defense is when up against mobs that have -Defense or -Resistance abilities. They will drop your Defense and Resistance to the negatives so fast your head will spin and since you also don't have much -Regeneration Resistance, it wouldn't take much to bring your character to its knees....not to mention you have zero Resistance to Endurance and Recovery Debuffs. I mean, what are you claiming here, that you can solo +4 x8 Council Mobs? Sure, okay, who can't? That is not proving anything. Sorry, Psi-bolt, I get your enthusiasm and your nostalgia toward the set, but it is not the set you are claiming it to be.

[High_Beam]

If your tail gets cut off just go to iCon and pay a few thousand influence to get a new one.  Regeneration problems solved.

[srmalloy]

7 minutes ago, furniturepolish said:

I think if we're getting this set buffed any time soon, we need to start small. make Instant Healing instant, get that "arcana time" out of there.

You're looking at it from the wrong direction. Make it a toggle, and change its mechanics from just a big boost to healing to an effect like how Spectral Wounds works, but reversed — when you get hit, you take whatever damage gets past any resistance you have, and it queues a delayed effect that 'instantly' heals you for an enhanceable fraction of that damage. So, for example, you might get hit for 250 points of damage, and a second or two later, heal 100 points from that. But because it only affects each incoming hit once, it becomes comparable to resistance and defense, each of which only affect an incoming attack once.

[furniturepolish]

2 minutes ago, srmalloy said:

You're looking at it from the wrong direction. Make it a toggle, and change its mechanics from just a big boost to healing to an effect like how Spectral Wounds works, but reversed — when you get hit, you take whatever damage gets past any resistance you have, and it queues a delayed effect that 'instantly' heals you for an enhanceable fraction of that damage. So, for example, you might get hit for 250 points of damage, and a second or two later, heal 100 points from that. But because it only affects each incoming hit once, it becomes comparable to resistance and defense, each of which only affect an incoming attack once.

 

That change actually sounds really cool, I'd love to see it. 

[SeraphimKensai]

Regen's biggest issue has always been surviving the alpha hit. There was a point that if the first hit didn't kill you, then you didn't die. That's back when I was soloing mitos in the hami bowl as a spines/regen way back in the day. The sets been nerfed numerous times since then.

 

Today I'd say it probably works best on a Sentinel as you're typically not the primary target, but it gives you enough health to keep you alive most of the time. A Brute works better than a Scrapper because it gets a higher health pool.

 

When I build a regen toon today I like to ensure I have ample slow resistance, high recharge, and then some type of defense. The defense padding gets eaten by Def Debuffs, but when not being debuffs it helps lower the amount of incoming damage that you have to Regen. Regen is very clicky by nature in its current iteration so having high investment into recharge bonuses is very useful along with building decent slow resistance so that your click heals don't get recharge debuffed and your dying when you should be popping reconstruction.

 

it can be played alright, but it's under tuned compared to other resistance/defensive sets.

Willpower's RTTC can outshine regen with enough saturation and ends up getting more res/def.

 

[Without_Pause]

20 minutes ago, Solarverse said:

 

Nope. Also not buying that you are running +4 x8 mobs solo either, especially not Arachnos. Sorry, Psi-bolt, I know better than that. No Psi Resist, not much Toxic Resist to speak of, they cream your Defense and Resistances and you have absolutely no DDR or RDR to speak of, it doesn't matter how high your resistance is or Defense is when up against mobs that have -Defense or -Resistance abilities. They will drop your Defense and Resistance to the negatives so fast your head will spin and since you also don't have much -Regeneration Resistance, it wouldn't take much to bring your character to its knees....not to mention you have zero Resistance to Endurance and Recovery Debuffs. I mean, what are you claiming here, that you can solo +4 x8 Council Mobs? Sure, okay, who can't? That is not proving anything. Sorry, Psi-bolt, I get your enthusiasm and your nostalgia toward the set, but it is not the set you are claiming it to be.

Add in any Psy or Ice attacks which cripples your Recharge. I've long come to the conclusion that anyone who says they solo +4/x8 that they mean Council. I've pulled that off even before hitting 50, so congrats on soloing Council at max diff when fully built I guess. Note, at sub Level 50 you also take on +5s and you are not 50+1. I've seen maps which can make even my /stone Brute not even remotely try at max diff. (waves to red side) Hell, stick a /regen in a Psi Cop mission and see how that goes at max diff.

Edited September 19, 2023 by Without_Pause

[Psi-bolt]

1 hour ago, Solarverse said:

 

Nope. Also not buying that you are running +4 x8 mobs solo either, especially not Arachnos. Sorry, Psi-bolt, I know better than that. No Psi Resist, not much Toxic Resist to speak of, they cream your Defense and Resistances and you have absolutely no DDR or RDR to speak of, it doesn't matter how high your resistance is or Defense is when up against mobs that have -Defense or -Resistance abilities. They will drop your Defense and Resistance to the negatives so fast your head will spin and since you also don't have much -Regeneration Resistance, it wouldn't take much to bring your character to its knees....not to mention you have zero Resistance to Endurance and Recovery Debuffs. I mean, what are you claiming here, that you can solo +4 x8 Council Mobs? Sure, okay, who can't? That is not proving anything. Sorry, Psi-bolt, I get your enthusiasm and your nostalgia toward the set, but it is not the set you are claiming it to be.

The standard you’re suggesting isn’t a set that is decent or good.  What you’re suggesting is a level of play that is well beyond what I think any sane developer would balance a set around.   I know some sets can achieve this level of play but the inability to solo Arachnos maps at +4/x8 doesn’t make a set weak or imbalanced.  By the way, last week’s Khan WST showed me that Regen can handle +1 or +2 Arachnos just fine.  

[Psi-bolt]

53 minutes ago, Without_Pause said:

Add in any Psy or Ice attacks which cripples your Recharge. I've long come to the conclusion that anyone who says they solo +4/x8 that they mean Council. I've pulled that off even before hitting 50, so congrats on soloing Council at max diff when fully built I guess. Note, at sub Level 50 you also take on +5s and you are not 50+1. I've seen maps which can make even my /stone Brute not even remotely try at max diff. (waves to red side) Hell, stick a /regen in a Psi Cop mission and see how that goes at max diff.

I don’t want to straw man either you or Solarverse so I’ll just ask directly.  What level of performance do you believe is necessary before a set is considered “good” or even “acceptable?”

 

I confess that we might be coming to the question from vastly different assumptions.

[Solarverse]

18 minutes ago, Psi-bolt said:

The standard you’re suggesting isn’t a set that is decent or good.  What you’re suggesting is a level of play that is well beyond what I think any sane developer would balance a set around.   I know some sets can achieve this level of play but the inability to solo Arachnos maps at +4/x8 doesn’t make a set weak or imbalanced.  By the way, last week’s Khan WST showed me that Regen can handle +1 or +2 Arachnos just fine.  

 

Look, all I am saying is that Regen has absolutely nothing to back up on. I can solo +4 x8 Arachnos on my Elec/EM Tank. They melt my capped Defense on him, but what I have to back up on is my Resists that have plenty of RDR and my Regen that isn't much, but it is just enough to help get HP back that I lose after losing my Defense. I also have practical -Endurance/-Recovery immunity, so those Mu Sappers don't drop all of my toggles and leave me without Endurance. And this is by far not the best set in game, it is just a set that is self sufficient, meaning it doesn't depend on mobs being stacked on me to survive, doesn't require other players to play nice for me to survive. Regen on the other hand has absolutely no leg to stand on, man...none. Outside of Smashing/Lethal Damage, it cannot survive without having other players stack shields and +Endurance abilities on you. To me, Standard is what everything else can do, that you cannot. And Regen simply cannot do what...well...anything else can do. And look, it was once my favorite set of all time...so it is really hard for me to dump on it like this, it's not easy at all...it down right hurts my feelings to dump on Regen the way I do. I want to see it get better, but as long as people keep claiming that, "Regen is fine as is" that will never happen. I simply can't let people proclaim to me that the set is fine as is when I know better.  😞

[Solarverse]

37 minutes ago, Psi-bolt said:

I don’t want to straw man either you or Solarverse so I’ll just ask directly.  What level of performance do you believe is necessary before a set is considered “good” or even “acceptable?”

 

I confess that we might be coming to the question from vastly different assumptions.

 

Sorry, missed this.

 

Question: What level of performance do I believe is necessary before a set is considered "good" or even "acceptable?"

 

Answer: To be on par with literally all other sets. Regeneration is not on par, not even remotely close. Regeneration got left way behind a very long time ago.

[Herotu]

I think there should be a "Never Defeated" power in Regen.

- an automatic self-rez after a time. Like you see in movies etc. "Oh no! The hero's dead!"/"Well that baddie died easily considering it's the big bad".

 

... then they rise like a zombie.

 

 

Edited September 19, 2023 by Herotu

[liveevil2000]

WOW! Just checked back.  I didn't know this was such a hot topic. 

Now I get why ...

4 hours ago, Vanden said:

Oh no... must we?

I'm both glad I asked and sorry.

 

.... lets see .... what other powersets can I spark a debate with .... hmmmmmm🤔

Edited September 19, 2023 by liveevil2000